First Imperial IPA recipe: advice and comments

[Yooper]

Thanks, Yooper.

Generally, do experienced home brewers adjust their water beyond the Ph to emphasize certain minerals? Is there any tangible benefit (i.e. raising the sulfate levels produces a better IPA)?

Yes. And no.

What I mean is this- you want enough of the minerals for proper pH and yeast health. The "flavor" ions may or may not be adjusted, to taste. I'm finding that a much lower sulfate amount that in the "pale ale" profiles actually gives me better results. It's true that some sulfate enhances bitterness, while chloride provides a "fuller, rounder" beer. But I'm finding that a fairly low amount of both (along with lower alkalinity from diluting with RO water) gives me repeatable and wonderful results!

A typical water profile for me (I make primarily IPAs and APAS) looks like this:
Calcium-87 Magnesium-16 Sodium-5 Chloride-59 Sulfate-86 mash pH 5.45

As I said, I make hoppy beers 3 out of 4 times I brew, maybe more, and I'm really finding that "less is more". If you want to go with a good IPA water profile, you could try Mosher's ideal pale ale profile, but probably skip Burtonizing. Lots and lots of brewers target a "pale ale profile" with great results, and I wouldn't discount that at all. It's just been my experience is that the less a water profile is manipulated, the better the beer!

In addition, chalk doesn't dissolve anyway in the mash water properly without extraneous measures. But if you want to give it a try, maybe scale down the amounts, and try adding it to your water and see how it tastes. If you LIKE the taste of sodium bicarb and chalk in water, maybe you'd like it added to your beer. I don't.

 

[MrHadack]

Very helpful, thanks. I think I'll add some stuff to plain water and taste it to see what it does, that way I won't ruin a batch by over-thinking things. What I have noticed is that bottled waters, like Dasani, that add salts have a better flavor to them than other types of bottled water. I guess it can contribute to mouth-feel. But so far the stuff I've been brewing has come out okay in that department so if it ain't broke...

 

[Dog House Brew]

Yes. And no.

What I mean is this- you want enough of the minerals for proper pH and yeast health. The "flavor" ions may or may not be adjusted, to taste. I'm finding that a much lower sulfate amount that in the "pale ale" profiles actually gives me better results. It's true that some sulfate enhances bitterness, while chloride provides a "fuller, rounder" beer. But I'm finding that a fairly low amount of both (along with lower alkalinity from diluting with RO water) gives me repeatable and wonderful results!

A typical water profile for me (I make primarily IPAs and APAS) looks like this:
Calcium-87 Magnesium-16 Sodium-5 Chloride-59 Sulfate-86 mash pH 5.45

As I said, I make hoppy beers 3 out of 4 times I brew, maybe more, and I'm really finding that "less is more". If you want to go with a good IPA water profile, you could try Mosher's ideal pale ale profile, but probably skip Burtonizing. Lots and lots of brewers target a "pale ale profile" with great results, and I wouldn't discount that at all. It's just been my experience is that the less a water profile is manipulated, the better the beer!

In addition, chalk doesn't dissolve anyway in the mash water properly without extraneous measures. But if you want to give it a try, maybe scale down the amounts, and try adding it to your water and see how it tastes. If you LIKE the taste of sodium bicarb and chalk in water, maybe you'd like it added to your beer. I don't.

I agree +1. When doing any hoppy beers I have found that less is really the best. I wish I had soft water. It works so well with hops, as my hard water made most of my hoppy beers so harsh. When I started building from RO I found that my hoppy beers became what I wanted. Never been a "region" water builder, but more of a style builder.

 

[MrHadack]

Well, I have sent some messages back and forth with AJDelange and spent a few hours reading some water chemistry stuff. I downloaded the Bru'n Water spreadsheet and have been reading through it and it's helping greatly. Scrap all my questions regarding water additions above. I have a much better grasp on it now, as much as one can possibly grasp the tip of an iceberg

Less-is-more will be my approach as well. The beers I have been making for the past few years without paying attention to water chemistry or Ph at all have come out rather well already, so perhaps just some minor tweaks are in order to really take some of them to the next level.

This thread has been a real game-changer for me. Thanks to everyone for the help.

 

[Yooper]

Well, I have sent some messages back and forth with AJDelange and spent a few hours reading some water chemistry stuff. .........

I have a much better grasp on it now, as much as one can possibly grasp the tip of an iceberg

I know exactly what you mean! I always considered myself a pretty intelligent person until I "talked" to AJ. I'm just happy I can actually understand about 25% of what he says!

 

[rednekhippiemotrcyclfreak]

ALL OF THAT.

............

http://beerdujour.com/recipes/1pliny the elder clone pdf.pdf

Good luck! Once you start brewing these you may never go back...

Hey Cladinshadows, I plugged the info from this pdf into Beersmith and got a whopping 198 IBU's. I don't know what CTZ hops are but I used Warrior to calculate since they are 14% AAU. The 3.5 oz addition of those along resulted in 151 IBU's. Have you actually brewed from this recipe?

 

[KIAKillerXJ]

I have and its awesome. It calculates out really high IBU levels, but its so balanced you'd never know. Anything 100+ you can't tell the diff anyways.

 

[KIAKillerXJ]

and from a quick google search--

CTZ Hops (Columbus, Tomahawk, Zues) Pungent "American Hop" Aroma, High alpha hop.
Some say that it has an onion/garlic/dank character that for many years defined the
American IPA style.

 

[rednekhippiemotrcyclfreak]

and from a quick google search--

CTZ Hops (Columbus, Tomahawk, Zues) Pungent "American Hop" Aroma, High alpha hop.
Some say that it has an onion/garlic/dank character that for many years defined the
American IPA style.

I don't know why I said Warrior, cuz Columbus is what I actually meant.

 

[MrHadack]

Okay, I am back with a yeast question for this recipe:

I originally was going to use WLP001 for this batch, but I couldn't get my hands on any. Instead, I am using WLP007 which I was told works well for DIPA and IPA.

However, I have read in some spots that since this strain is a high attenuator I should mash at a higher temperature. My original target was for around 150 with the WLP001, but I was told to go higher, maybe 155+ with the WLP007. Any thoughts on this? From what I understand about mashing, the attenuation is primarily set by the mash temp (alpha and beta activity) and not the yeast. So it really shouldn't matter, and the mash at 150 should be fine. Any thoughts on this?

 

[dcp27]

However, I have read in some spots that since this strain is a high attenuator I should mash at a higher temperature. My original target was for around 150 with the WLP001, but I was told to go higher, maybe 155+ with the WLP007. Any thoughts on this?

007 isn't any higher an attenuator than 001. IME, its less. I wouldnt mash that high unless you want an fg > 1.02. its not necessarily a bad thing, its what Lagunitas does, but IMO mashing high on a IIPA is gunna make it closer to a barleywine.

 

[MrHadack]

Funny you should reply, dcp27. I was just reading an old post of yours about Larry IPA. One of my faves as well. They have it on tap down the street from me, which is rare for my area (not too far from you, but not a lot of bars in walking distance).

I figured the mash temp was more important than perceived attenuation of the yeast. I'll stick with 150 for the mash then. Thanks!

 

[dcp27]

ya thankfully im on the somerville line so I got a few good bars I can walk to when its nice out, or drunk enough not to care.

they kinda go hand in hand. you can have the highest attenuating yeast possible, but if you mash @160, it'll only have so much fermentables it could consume. In general its best to mash a lil lower on bigger beers as the yeast struggles a bit more to get full attenuation.
How to brew a big beer

 

[MrHadack]

Just an update for anyone interested. Here's the final recipe I used:

18# 2 Row
1# Munich
.5# Wheat
.5# Crystal 60
1.75 oz Chinook 60m
1.0 oz Simcoe 15m
1.0 Amarillo 5m
1.0 Citra post boil
WLP007

(It's currently fermenting quite rapidly and happily somewhere around 70 degrees. OG was 1.079. I plan to dry hop in the secondary for 1 week with 2oz Citra, and 2oz Amarillo.)

This is also the first batch where I paid close attention to water chemistry using the Bru'n Water spreadsheet. The finished water profile was:

Calcium: 55.4
Magnesium: 13.8
Sodium: 39.0
Sulfate: 146.4
Chloride: 49.4
Bicarbonate: 58.1
RA: 0
Mash pH: 5.3 (Measured with pH meter)
Mash Temp: 150.4F
Sparge Water pH: 5.7 (Measured with pH meter)

This should turn out pretty well. Thanks for all the help and advice.

 

[rebrandsoftware]

And then almost two years later some guy posted a reply wondering how it turned out...