First cider - Lalvin EC 1118

[user 211287]

Musselmans and Costco apple juice appear to be nearly identical with one exception. The Kirkland/Costco apple juice has no Vitamin C added. The jugs are identical and the size/shape of the label is also.

Im not really a fan of the 1118 for cider unless you are going more for a apple wine. I really like the Wyeast 4766 sofar if you are doing batches of 3-5 gallons. Its far too expensive for a 1 gallon batch.

 

[MindenMan]

Okay, so I forgot to update in a timely manner. The equivalent O.G. got very close to 1.100 after adding more FAJC in multiple stages. IMHO, adding FAJC not only adds fermentables, but it does add some of that fresh apple "bite" to the cider. I am now using Irish Ale yeast 1084 (?) for my current batch of ciders, and am very happy with the results. I ferment low and slow yes it takes a while but that is okay as I can only put just so many bottles in my freezer at one time to make applejack with. I have made a few different batches of "White Grape Peach" hard cider and the flavor is amazing using 1084 yeast. To me the trick to making great applejack is to not let the juice ferment out dry before putting in the freezer and then there will be a tiny bit more sweetness going into the bottle to age.

My apple tree should have fruit this year, my peach tree should have fruit this year and the next-door neighbors apricot tree which was also covered in blossoms should provide some fruit on my side of the fence. There are too many to count fruit trees in my neighborhood, and most of the owners let the critters get it instead of letting someone will to do the work glean the fruit.

 

[Skylark]

Yum, those sound great!

Yeah, in my experience the EC-1118 tastes best if you want dry and very sparkling cider, essentially apple champagne. I like the apple/white grape combo if I am using cheap apple juice, because the grape seems to add some complexity that apple juice from concentrate just doesn't have.

 

[Bryceshu]

So I know the last post was back in 2016, but im hoping someone will read this and give me some pointers. I just starte dmy first few batches of cider and used ec-1118 for one of them. I do enjoy a dry cider but also want a little sweetness to it. How long would you guys recommend keeping it in secondary? I planned on keeping it simple and putting a cinnamon stick in for some extra flavor. and iv also been reading about adding apple concentrate to help with carbonation and sweetness. Would you advise to add the concentrate on bottling date or when I rack into secondary ?

Also I read an awesome post about bottle pasteurization (stove top) and thought about giving that a go as well. I know I gatta be careful about bottle bombs, so I thought that the bottle pasteurization would obviously prevent those by taking care of the yeasts and allowing the sugar or concentrate I added to keep the sweetness..

any thoughts, opinions? im new to this forum but absolutely loving all the information on this thing. Everyone seems really helpful.

 

[bernardsmith]

Hiya Bryceshu and welcome. Strikes me that brewers (those who make beer) love heat and so they love to add heat (pasteurize) anything that grows whereas wine makers tend to avoid cooking fruit because of the flavors cooked fruit exhibit. Best to allow the yeast to fully ferment any sugar if you are really making cider (what's the ABV of cider 5 -6 % ABV?) and then stabilizing with two chemicals - K-meta and K-sorbate and then adding whatever sweetness you are looking for. After stabilization any yeast lurking will not be able to ferment any fermentable sugar. Adding heat to sealed bottles saturated with CO2 is a real recipe for bottle bombs... but your experience may be different.

 

[z-bob]

So I know the last post was back in 2016, but im hoping someone will read this and give me some pointers. I just starte dmy first few batches of cider and used ec-1118 for one of them. I do enjoy a dry cider but also want a little sweetness to it. How long would you guys recommend keeping it in secondary? I planned on keeping it simple and putting a cinnamon stick in for some extra flavor. and iv also been reading about adding apple concentrate to help with carbonation and sweetness. Would you advise to add the concentrate on bottling date or when I rack into secondary ?

Also I read an awesome post about bottle pasteurization (stove top) and thought about giving that a go as well. I know I gatta be careful about bottle bombs, so I thought that the bottle pasteurization would obviously prevent those by taking care of the yeasts and allowing the sugar or concentrate I added to keep the sweetness..

any thoughts, opinions? im new to this forum but absolutely loving all the information on this thing. Everyone seems really helpful.

I've had my best results using anything but EC1118 or Premier Cuvee (I think they are the same thing.) Cote des Blancs is good, and so are AW4 and S-33, but all three are quite different. CdB is probably my favorite.

At this point, I think your best bet is to assume the cider will be way too dry, but that is easily remedied by adding a little simple syrup at serving time. Or muddle a sugar cube or packet of Splenda in the bottom of your glass with just a little of the pour, then add the rest after it's mostly dissolved. It only takes a little sweetness for the apple character to come back.

 

[Bryceshu]

Below is the cider w ec1118 Iv got going. The pic is two days after racking. When I racked I also topped it off with apple concentrate. Although there is absolutely no sign of yeast life. So do you think it safe to say it fermented out completely? Starts in primary May 20th and racked June 2nd..

And here is everything Iv got goin on right now. Four ciders and a cyser in the back to the left of the 3 gallon carboy. The two middle 1 gallon jugs I just started June 2nd with safale-04 and tried some new things with those for primary..

 

[papz]

EC-1118 is still in there and can wake up.
Take another gravity reading.
If the ABV isn't around the 18% mark, it's not done/finished.

ALSO......
IMHO, you have too much headspace.
You can sani some glass marbles to take up some space to eliminate that head space to avoid oxidation and potential infections.

Good luck.

 

[Bryceshu]

EC-1118 is still in there and can wake up.
Take another gravity reading.
If the ABV isn't around the 18% mark, it's not done/finished.

ALSO......
IMHO, you have too much headspace.
You can sani some glass marbles to take up some space to eliminate that head space to avoid oxidation and potential infections.

Good luck.

Hey, Thanks for the tips. I will definitely keep more head space next time around. I don't have any marbles but thats a great idea. I will have to find some just incase.

The one with the EC-1118 turned out alright, i ended up bottling, carbonated it and kept them in the fridge, most are gone by now. I added some cinnamon to it and didn't really like how it came out. It tasted a lot better as a jack though.

the 3 gallon cider i had going turned out pretty decent with the Mangrove M02 yeast. I bottle carbonated those really well. Mostly everyone who has tasted it has really enjoyed the taste, except my wife who says its a little too much on the sour tart side (but she's picky)..

Going to bottle the 2 gallons of s04 next week. Iv also got a gallon of cyser that i need to rack and about to make another 3 gallon cyser.. probably make most of that into jack though..

 

[diyHardCider]

This is good thread with lots of good info. I've attempted to gather some good cidermaking information into my site... check out the recipe page for several good recipes to try!

-Andrew G
diyHardCider.com

 

[Skylark]

Hey folks! I'm glad someone bumped this thread. I've been away for a couple years but I'm back and dipping my toes in again. I just started another attempted at graff today, based on Brandon's recipe, but I didn't feel like doing even a partial mash so there's no Crystal 60/120L in here. Here's the breakdown:

1 gal local cider
4 C water
1/2 lb Bavarian wheat DME
1/4 oz Hallertau hops
Safbrew cider yeast

I boiled the DME this time (lol) along with the hops for 30 minutes, allowed to cool, and mixed with the cider, then pitched.

----------------------
Bryce, how do you like the cyser? I'm curious b/c I've recently gotten into drinking mead now that I've actually found some good stuff in the area. (I found that I prefer very simple meads, either straight wildflower or buckwheat honey, maybe slightly oaked, but I haven't enjoyed any other adjuncts.)

 

[Blacksmith1]

So what is that, a beer/ale mixed with mead? My stepson (22yr old) brought home a big bottle of honey and a gallon of water to make his own mead. It worked and we've gone a bit nuts with the fermenting thing. (according to his mother) he's got a melomel going right now, and I'm considering a Cyser after my cider/apple wine finishes. Still have a lot to learn about yeasts, sugar levels and end products as far as ABV goes.

 

[papz]

Still have a lot to learn about yeasts, sugar levels and end products as far as ABV goes.

Sugar levels ....... get a hydrometer
adding no sugar at all to cider will be around 4-7% abv
at 2-lb per gallon can get you to 20% abv
Somewhere on these forums is a sugar formula regarding ABV but if i remember right, each LB of sugar can add around 7% abv to w/e you add it to.

If you are going for a very high abv product (18%ish), use Lalvin EC 1118 or other champagne yeasts.
Wine yeasts will yield high abv 71-b, Red Star Cote Des Blanc, ect. (14%ish)
For a medium (for cider) abv (10%ish) try s-05 or nottingham, ect.
For a low abv (4-7%ish) try white labs 002, imperial a-09, ect.

Hope this helps.

 

[Blacksmith1]

cool. going to have a strong cider from this batch. If I add more sugar now to go past that will I need to worry about bombs after bottling? Or will the yeast eventually drown in the alcohol?

 

[MarkKF]

I love cyzer. So easy. No step feeding. Higher ABV with no added sugar. 71b is my fav. yeast.

 

[papz]

will I need to worry about bombs after bottling?

The answer is always YES.
You cannot stress enough how you should get a hydrometer if you do not already have one.
Dormant yeast can (and often will) become active again once left in a container (such as a bottle) for long periods of time. Especially if the temperature is on the warm side of things. There is a formula on here (another one) that tells you how much sugar to add to a DRY product for x volumes of carb.... OR.... you can use "carb tabs"

Don't just blindly guess how much sugar to add in hopes of NOT making a glass frag-grenade.
People have already taken the guess work out of the equation. Learn from their experience.

 

[Blacksmith1]

so even if the yeast dies of alcohol poisoning, it could still reactivate later? crap. I just added sugar to both the brews I have going.....

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guess I'll wait till they stop bubbling and see how much sugar is left. I'm using EC-1118 if that helps any...

 

[Scientific hippie]

I love buckwheat honey! I usually make my mead with 2/3 generic amber honey from Target and 1/3 buckwheat honey; it's great! I tried graff and did not like it. I made cider once and it tastes like beer; I'm aging it into the summer. I may try another cider or cyser; I think hubs will like it relatively low ABV and somewhat sweet. Meanwhile I'm fermenting kombucha and doing a 6 gal Argentinian Malbec kit.

 

[Maylar]

so even if the yeast dies of alcohol poisoning, it could still reactivate later? crap. I just added sugar to both the brews I have going.....

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guess I'll wait till they stop bubbling and see how much sugar is left. I'm using EC-1118 if that helps any...

Yeast that reach their alcohol tolerance don't usually wake up again. With EC-1118 that'll be up there north of 18%.

 

[Blacksmith1]

I made cider once and it tastes like beer; I'm aging it into the summer. I may try another cider or cyser; I think hubs will like it relatively low ABV and somewhat sweet.

I think my next one will be a low ABV for taste. this one is just to see if I can make something that will get my best friend drunk.

​

 

[Blacksmith1]

Yeast that reach their alcohol tolerance don't usually wake up again.

Cool. Maybe I'll have the ol' lady print up a couple of RIP labels for it.