First Brew Tastes Foul!

[beermonster83]

Hi All, New to the brewing game and fear I've ballsed up my first go. Was given a brewing set for xmas which came with a Muntons pilsner can kit.

I brewed this with 1kg brewing sugar, spring water with OG of 1040 and FG of 1010. Brewed in the kitchen at a fairly steady 18 - 20C (this kit comes with ale yeast) for 10 days and then primed/bottled at ~6g/500mls castor sugar. Stored in garage at <10C for 6 weeks.

Tried one last night and it's utter cack, borderline undrinkable. Hints of banana and strong apple taste. Couldn't finish a pint! On the plus side it looks good - relatively clear with good head!

Where did I go wrong? And will it improve if left to condition for longer?

I'm disappointed as I was enjoying this brewing lark. I'm also a little worried for my Coopers Euro Lager bottled on Tues, which had a similar smell at bottling time!!!!!

 

[TheCADJockey]

Hey buddy, welcome to HBT. I can't tell you for sure what is wrong, although someone will likely come along pretty quick here and help you a little better than I can. I've had poor luck with kits myself.

How to Brew: Off-Flavors This chapter highlights some common off-flavors and has some reasons as to why they might be there. It is worth taking a look at to get some idea of things to keep in mind. The first one is an apple flavor.

I made a Bavarian hefeweizen from a kit recently and simply did not like the flavor, all my friends loved it though. Stick with it.

 

[ncbrewer]

I don't understand your units on the priming sugar, but a couple of things come to mind. 10 days of fermenting is a little on the short side and could account for the apple flavor. Then if you bottled without confirming the gravity was stable, you could get bottle bombs (some of the original sugars could continue to ferment). Be really careful with these bottles.

If you took the bottles straight to a cold garage after bottling, they would be really slow to prime - this might account for why they haven't exploded yet.

More details on your fermentation and conditioning would help.

 

[Rockn_M]

Most likely your tasting the effects of not control temperature during fermentation. If the beer ferments at a higher temperature it can cause off flavors. In order to keep this from happening you'll need to be able to keep the fermentation down the in range of the yeast. Check out swamp coolers or if you have a cold\cool spot in your house. Those are the easiest ways to keep things cool during fermentation.

 

[beermonster83]

I don't understand your units on the priming sugar, but a couple of things come to mind. 10 days of fermenting is a little on the short side and could account for the apple flavor. Then if you bottled without confirming the gravity was stable, you could get bottle bombs (some of the original sugars could continue to ferment). Be really careful with these bottles.

If you took the bottles straight to a cold garage after bottling, they would be really slow to prime - this might account for why they haven't exploded yet.

More details on your fermentation and conditioning would help.

6g sugar per 500mls of beer.
Gravity was stable for 3 days.
7 days in bottle at 18C before cooling.
No bottle bombs as of yet (5 weeks later).

 

[Canuck137]

I have found that the cheap yeast that comes with the kits gives a bit of a sour apple taste. I substituted my recent kit with better yeast and have a much improved flavour.

 

[beermonster83]

Most likely your tasting the effects of not control temperature during fermentation. If the beer ferments at a higher temperature it can cause off flavors. In order to keep this from happening you'll need to be able to keep the fermentation down the in range of the yeast. Check out swamp coolers or if you have a cold\cool spot in your house. Those are the easiest ways to keep things cool during fermentation.

Temps within range of 18 - 24C for the yeast

 

[HBKidJr]

Hints of banana and strong apple taste.

I'm leaning toward two different issues. First being a warm fermentation for the banana flavor (in my experience). 20C would come out to around 68F (converting for my own convenience). The fermenting beer can be anywhere from 7-10 degrees warmer than that, putting it close to 80 degrees. Try to keep the fermenting beer in the low 60s (around 15.5C) so the yeast doesn't have to work so hard.

Second is the apple taste. That's usually attributed to young, un-aged beer. Let your beer condition for another couple weeks and try another one. I've had some pretty bad beers turn around and improve after a month, all the way up to 6 months.

 

[ncbrewer]

Most likely your tasting the effects of not control temperature during fermentation. If the beer ferments at a higher temperature it can cause off flavors. In order to keep this from happening you'll need to be able to keep the fermentation down the in range of the yeast. Check out swamp coolers or if you have a cold\cool spot in your house. Those are the easiest ways to keep things cool during fermentation.

A good point. I was reading the temperatures as being beer temperature, but if it was ambient, the beer would have been warmer.

 

[firerat]

I bet it's the crappy yeast that comes with those kits.

That and the beer is still "green".

Let it age and see what happens.

 

[GHBWNY]

Hi All, New to the brewing game and fear I've ballsed up my first go. Was given a brewing set for xmas which came with a Muntons pilsner can kit.

I brewed this with 1kg brewing sugar, spring water with OG of 1040 and FG of 1010. Brewed in the kitchen at a fairly steady 18 - 20C (this kit comes with ale yeast) for 10 days and then primed/bottled at ~6g/500mls castor sugar. Stored in garage at <10C for 6 weeks.

Tried one last night and it's utter cack, borderline undrinkable. Hints of banana and strong apple taste. Couldn't finish a pint! On the plus side it looks good - relatively clear with good head!

Where did I go wrong? And will it improve if left to condition for longer?

I'm disappointed as I was enjoying this brewing lark. I'm also a little worried for my Coopers Euro Lager bottled on Tues, which had a similar smell at bottling time!!!!!

Bottle conditioning, technically being a fermentation step, your conditioning temp is quite low. If you are absolutely sure that your ferm was complete (same consecutive FG readings after 10 days) and that waking up the yeast won't result in bottle-bombs, store @ ~21C (70F) for 2-3 weeks and see if it would help the yeast clean up those off-flavors. Again, only if you're sure your ferm was done.

 

[TheCADJockey]

Ah right, the crappy yeast thing... I didn't want to say it, but the bavarian hefe I made and had issues with could've been due to this as well since I do control temp etc. The kit was an xmas gift to me from my mother who clicked on the cheapest yeast option. The beer had a strange flavor that the beer judge at our lhbs attributed to the yeast and that a better option likely would've been just great.

 

[ncbrewer]

6g sugar per 500mls of beer.
Gravity was stable for 3 days.
7 days in bottle at 18C before cooling.
No bottle bombs as of yet (5 weeks later).

I think you sugar would work out to roughly 8 oz for a 5 gallon batch. That is really a lot. Very possible bottle bombs, unless I pushed the wrong button on the calculator. At least the gravity was stable, so that won't make matters worse.

7 days of conditioning is pretty short. Rulo of thumb is 3 weeks at 70F.

 

[TheHopfather]

My guess would be your fermentation temps being the culprit. 18 to 20C ambient is going to be closer to 24C+ for the wort temp, which is going to throw some off flavors. Get those temps down!

 

[Iseneye]

I think you sugar would work out to roughly 8 oz for a 5 gallon batch. That is really a lot. Very possible bottle bombs, unless I pushed the wrong button on the calculator. At least the gravity was stable, so that won't make matters worse.

7 days of conditioning is pretty short. Rulo of thumb is 3 weeks at 70F.

Using beersmith, 6 grams of sugar per 500ml bottle at fermentation of 20º gives 7 volumes - sounds like a recipe for bottle bombs to me.

 

[bragona71]

this might give you more help..my guess is #1 and #6 on this list were the issues you had. confirms a couple other opinions already suggested


http://bjcp.org/faults.php

 

[beermonster83]

Bottle conditioning, technically being a fermentation step, your conditioning temp is quite low. If you are absolutely sure that your ferm was complete (same consecutive FG readings after 10 days) and that waking up the yeast won't result in bottle-bombs, store @ ~21C (70F) for 2-3 weeks and see if it would help the yeast clean up those off-flavors. Again, only if you're sure your ferm was done.

Well brought half the bottles in the house, warmed up to ~18C/65F and gave them all a shake, see if I can spark a remarkable turnaround! No bottle bombs - I may have overestimated the amount of priming sugar used; probably closer to 4g per 500mls.

Shall give them a week or two and reevaluate. Fingers crossed

 

[GHBWNY]

Well brought half the bottles in the house, warmed up to ~18C/65F and gave them all a shake, see if I can spark a remarkable turnaround! No bottle bombs - I may have overestimated the amount of priming sugar used; probably closer to 4g per 500mls.

Shall give them a week or two and reevaluate. Fingers crossed

9 times out of 10, a beer only gets better with time.

 

[kh54s10]

I guess people have success with Cooper's kits but with all the threads complaining of bad beer with them. It is a wonder that they don't supply better yeast at the very least.

Look for a better kit. Something without canned extract, especially if it is pre-hopped.

Maybe you have a homebrew supply shop nearby that makes up their own. The ingredients will likely be better and fresher.

 

[BigFloyd]

I guess people have success with Cooper's kits but with all the threads complaining of bad beer with them. It is a wonder that they don't supply better yeast at the very least.

Look for a better kit. Something without canned extract, especially if it is pre-hopped.

Maybe you have a homebrew supply shop nearby that makes up their own. The ingredients will likely be better and fresher.

This^^^^^^^^. Better ingredients and good temp control (18*C for many ales) at both the pitch and the ferment will give you a much better result.

Oh, your garage is too cold for bottle conditioning/carbing. Up around 21*C is good after it's in the bottles.

 

[kombat]

Sounds to me like a combination of fermenting too hot (banana flavour) and underpitching the yeast (acetaldehyde, or "green apple"). What kind of yeast came with the kit? Was it liquid or dry? Did you prepare the yeast at all (i.e., starter, rehydrate, whatever) prior to pitching it?

 

[beermonster83]

Sounds to me like a combination of fermenting too hot (banana flavour) and underpitching the yeast (acetaldehyde, or "green apple"). What kind of yeast came with the kit? Was it liquid or dry? Did you prepare the yeast at all (i.e., starter, rehydrate, whatever) prior to pitching it?

Was dry yeast that I just flung in the top and gave it a whizz round, as per the instructions

 

[1977Brewer]

Was dry yeast that I just flung in the top and gave it a whizz round, as per the instructions

There's the problem. Do not whizz in your wort.

 

[beermonster83]

There's the problem. Do not whizz in your wort.

Why ever not?!?!

 

[beermonster83]

Just to update - after an additional 8 days conditioning at room temperature it has improved ten fold! Now sipping a nice clear, well carbonated glass of something that can pass for beer! Not perfect by any means but doesn't make me want to vomit like the first taste last week. Amazing what a little time can do.

This has taught me the importance of conditioning in relation to temperature. I'm on a steep learning curve!! I'm quietly confident my Coopers Euro Lager (currently in week #3 of conditioning) will be epic

 

[ncbrewer]

This has taught me the importance of conditioning in relation to temperature. I'm on a steep learning curve!! I'm quietly confident my Coopers Euro Lager (currently in week #3 of conditioning) will be epic

I'm sure it will be.

 

[HB_in_Subic]

I used to rush my bottling (at day 10 or 14) and noticed a big improvement in the quality of my beer after I started to wait a minimum of 3 weeks before bottling. This gives the beer a chance to finish properly and less chance of bottle bombs. I wasn't using the hydrometer before (for the first 35 batches) either.

Also, I recently started to rehydrate my yeast prior to pitching and have noticed a big improvement in lag times.

Temperature control is really key with the Ale yeasts. If you go with a Saison yeast (like Mangrove Jack's M27), you get a high temperature range (26C-32C) which is great for the warm seasons.