Firestone Walker Velvet Merlin Oatmeal Stout Clone

[ddrrseio]

having had this beer a few times, i can say it doesn't taste especially roasty. it's very silky - actually less roasty than i'd prefer. to get that SRM without reaching ashy levels i assume they used dehusked carafa.

 

[WarrantedFED]

Yeah, I enjoy roasty flavor a great deal. The roasty flavor tends to mellow with a couple of months of aging from what I have observed.

 

[WarrantedFED]

This made one heck of a stout!

 

[WarrantedFED]

Okay, seriously, the best stout I have ever tasted!!!

I aged this bad boy in a Woodinville Whiskey micro barrel that I previously had used to age some white dog. The barrel built up a perfect level of carbonation as I wrapped the barrel in Saran Wrap. It leaked a bit, but the cork really let off a pop when I opened it.

 

[GoodDogBadDog]

Subbing to this thread because I want to try this recipe.

 

[WarrantedFED]

I've got it on tap now and it is downright amazing!

 

[GoodDogBadDog]

Warranted, how did you add the chocolate? Did you use nibs in secondary or add it in during the boil or something else?

 

[WarrantedFED]

Warranted, how did you add the chocolate? Did you use nibs in secondary or add it in during the boil or something else?

I have used the following method a number of times: add 3/4 cup Dutch cocoa powder at flameout. My only complaint is that it makes the head kind of bubbly and dissipate quickly, I have supposed due to the addition of the cocoa oils. But it is worth it!

 

[GoodDogBadDog]

Ahh, I may substitute some cacao nibs in secondary and see how that turns out.

 

[WarrantedFED]

Have never done it, but should be really great!!!

 

[DrinkNoH2O]

Subbing to this thread because I want to try this recipe.

I've got it on tap now and it is downright amazing!

What recipe are you guys referring to?

FED those recipes you posted, while they may be good, are nothing like Velvet Merlin at all. FW VM is 5.5% ABV and has no chocolate at all.

 

[GoodDogBadDog]

I was referring to the Chocolate version FED posted, as I wanted something with chocolate and more of an imperial than just the base Merlin.

 

[WarrantedFED]

What recipe are you guys referring to?

FED those recipes you posted, while they may be good, are nothing like Velvet Merlin at all. FW VM is 5.5% ABV and has no chocolate at all.

Yeah, realized later that it's a Velvet Merkin clone. Silly me, I thought merkin was a typo on the FW website. Come to find out there are two different beers out there. The recipe is the merkin clone. Just don't google merkin, seriously... There is no unseeing what I saw !

I ended up with a stuck sparge on batch #2 which was the small beer (merLin-ish), that's the one that got the cocoa and a portion barreled with the majority kegged. The high octane (merKin) got the oak cubes - no cocoa. Awesome beers both.

I added cocoa to the small beer because... wait for it... I really like how it tastes.

 

[DavidJP]

Have been playing around trying to get a recipe based on the info in this thread, Firestone site and some other threads. It seems quite difficult to get to 65 SRM, especially in another thread in reported remarks from Matt was that they used Briess roast barley at 300SRM and at 12%. Anybody have any other ideas/comments.

Mash Ingredients

4 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) 29.6 %
3 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) 22.2 %
2 lbs Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) 14.8 %
1 lbs 12.0 oz Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) 13.0 %
1 lbs Carafa III (525.0 SRM) 7.4 %
1 lbs Crystal Extra Dark - 120L (Crisp) (120.0 SRM) 7.4 %
12.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) 5.6 %

Mash 156.0 F 90 min

Boil Ingredients

1.50 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min 22.4 IBUs
1.00 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min 5.4 IBUs

Est Original Gravity: 1.063 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.022 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.4 %
Bitterness: 27.8 IBUs
Est Color: 61.2 SRM

 

[J343MY]

Have been playing around trying to get a recipe based on the info in this thread, Firestone site and some other threads. It seems quite difficult to get to 65 SRM, especially in another thread in reported remarks from Matt was that they used Briess roast barley at 300SRM and at 12%. Anybody have any other ideas/comments.

Mash Ingredients

4 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) 29.6 %
3 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) 22.2 %
2 lbs Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) 14.8 %
1 lbs 12.0 oz Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) 13.0 %
1 lbs Carafa III (525.0 SRM) 7.4 %
1 lbs Crystal Extra Dark - 120L (Crisp) (120.0 SRM) 7.4 %
12.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) 5.6 %

Mash 156.0 F 90 min

Boil Ingredients

1.50 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min 22.4 IBUs
1.00 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min 5.4 IBUs

Est Original Gravity: 1.063 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.022 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.4 %
Bitterness: 27.8 IBUs
Est Color: 61.2 SRM

I'm willing to bet the colour they give on their website is actually EBC instead of SRM. 65 EBC = 33 SRM, which makes much more sense.

 

[DavidJP]

I'm willing to bet the colour they give on their website is actually EBC instead of SRM. 65 EBC = 33 SRM, which makes much more sense.

Maybe here's the blurb from their site, they state its SRM but could be a mistake i guess

style Oatmeal Stout
abv 5.5%
ibu 27
color 65SRM
fermentation
100% Stainless
malts
Maris Otter, 2-Row Pale, Roast Barley, English Dark Caramel, Medium Caramel, Carafa Malt, Oats (15%)
hops
100% US Grown Fuggle Hops

http://www.firestonebeer.com/beers/products/velvet-merlin-fall-and-winter

 

[HopSong]

I've been wanting to do a VMerlin clone.. I make a pretty nice oatmeal stout.. but, it does not have the silkiness that Merlin has. Mine may need to have a higher level of oatmeal added.

Any other clues to that missing silkiness?

 

[DavidJP]

I've been wanting to do a VMerlin clone.. I make a pretty nice oatmeal stout.. but, it does not have the silkiness that Merlin has. Mine may need to have a higher level of oatmeal added.

Any other clues to that missing silkiness?

what level of oats are you currently using, if lower I'd try the 15% that Firestone uses.

 

[HopSong]

Def WAY lower.. I think I worked with Jamil's McQuakers OMS.. IIRC, it was about 8%. I know that would make a huge difference.. but I was really afraid of a stuck sparge and kept it low.

 

[DesertPunk1981]

I use about 8%, but don't throw it in the mash till the last 20 min. I also add a cup of rum during packaging per 5 gallons. It's awesome!

 

[HopSong]

I ran my recent batch at 10% oats.. Doing BIAB, it was NOT an issue. It's sitting in primary.. Today starts week 2 in primary.. Krausen has dropped and no bubbles.. Two more weeks, if I can stand it.. and I'll keg or bottle. Probably bottle this one and let it sit for about 2 months before trying.

 

[DavidJP]

I wouldn't be afraid of 15% oats as per Velvet Melvin. Didn't have any trouble in my sparge system, gearing up for a new batch soon. Hope it works out well for you.

 

[THVbrew]

In the December issue of BYO is a Velvet Merlin clone recipe ...

Batch Size: 5 gsllons
OG: 1.061 FG: 1.020
IBU: 29 SRM: 44 ABV:5.6%

8.75lbs Rahr 2-row
1lb 9oz flaked oats
1lb 9oz Briess Roasted Barley (300L)
14oz Caramel MAlt (120L)
5oz Carapils
4oz Caramel (80L)
4oz Carafa III
3.8 AAU Fuggle (60min)
3.8 AAU Fuggle (30 min)
WLP002 or Wyeast 1968

I find it interesting that there is no Maris Otter in this recipe even though FW tells us their is and that the flaked oats is only ~10%.

I think im going to split the 8.75lbs of 2-row in to 5lbs of Maris Otter and 3.75lbs of 2-row and up the flaked oats to 15% of the grain bill. What are people thoughts on this clone recipe and on my modifications.

I will be doing this with a BIAB setup and was wondering if people think holding the mash at 115F for 30 mins to reduce the beta-glucan content (the gummy part of oats) is necessary before increasing the temp to 156F for a 60 min sacc rest.

 

[jtejedor]

That clone is too light on color and the website states the oatmeal is at 15%. I had to use a lot of roasted malts to match their srm but I put them in at sparge and didn't let them sit for long. It came out pretty smooth like the real thing and was pretty close to me. Also as you mentioned definitely marries otter in there. I assumed the ingredients were listed in order of quantity (expect for the oatmeal). I can try to dig it up but it's more fun to come up with your own recipe. I just do a batch sparge normally with quick oats and it seems fine. If you are going to use wlp002 as Firestone waker uses then I wouldn't mash that high.

 

[THVbrew]

jtejedor, thanks for the feedback!

How much roasted malt would you add to this recipe and how far in to the mash would you add it? Why didn't you have it in for the full rest? Would it have been too roasty tasting?

Also, can you explain to me the impact the 156F mash temp will have on using WLP002 and why you would mash at a lower temp?

 

[ultravista]

I am down for an Imperial Velvet Merlin with coffee.

 

[jtejedor]

jtejedor, thanks for the feedback!

How much roasted malt would you add to this recipe and how far in to the mash would you add it? Why didn't you have it in for the full rest? Would it have been too roasty tasting?

Also, can you explain to me the impact the 156F mash temp will have on using WLP002 and why you would mash at a lower temp?

Hey sorry about the late reply. Here is what I went with and not saying it was an exact clone but it was pretty tasty and I tried very hard to go by the info on the site.
Maris Otter (Crisp) (4.0 SRM) 42.0 %
Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) 14.8 %
Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) 14.8 %
Black Barley (Stout) (695.0 SRM) 9.9 %
Carafa Special III (Weyermann) (530.0 SR 8.6 %
Crystal Dark - 77L (Crisp) (75.0 SRM) 4.9 %
Crystal, Medium (Simpsons) (55.0 SRM) 4.9 %

Match the gravity based on those percentages and I only did a bittering addition to meet the IBUs listed on their website. Since I heard about the technique for all my stouts I do the roasted grains at the end. To me it just gives a much smoother roast taste especially with the amount of roast malts I used in this recipe. You get plenty of color and roast flavor adding late. Personally I wait until sparge time and then add all the roasted malts right before I start stirring the sparge really good, And I only let the sparge sit for a few minutes before draining. WLP002 is not a huge attenuator and using that much oatmeal you get plenty of body so with that combo in mind I personally wouldn't mash that high. From my notes I aimed for a mash temp of 150.

 

[THVbrew]

Finally I have some time in the radar to brew this. Below is what I am thinking (metrics are from beersmith) ...

Batch Size: 3 Gallons
IBU: 28 SRM: 51.7
Est. OG: 1.066
Est ABV: 5.9%

Maris Otter - 3lbs (34.9%)
2 Row - 2.25lbs (26.2%)
Flaked Oats - 1lb 4.8oz (15.1%
Roasted Barley (300 SRM) - 13.9 oz (10.1%)
Crystal 120 - 8.5oz (6.2%)
Carafa III (525 SRM) - 8oz (5.8%)
Crystal 80 - 2.4oz (1.8%)
Fuggles - 1oz at 60 min
Fuggles .25oz at 30 min
Yeast - WLP002

Will be doing this BIAB and shooting for a mash temp of 150. After the initial fermentation is complete, I plan on transferring to a secondary for a couple of months.

Anyone see any issues, or have any recommendations for this?

 

[jmitchell3]

Im gonna do OP's recipe except use chocolate malt or carafa special in place of carafa III. Ill post back when its done!

 

[Northcoast]

And... How about now?

Thanks for the assists with this one!

I've got it on tap now and it is downright amazing!

old thread, hopefully WarrantedFED is still active. Would you mind reshaping the final recipe you used? The image attachments no longer load on this thread, I’ve been tinkering with a Cocoa Merkin recipe and would love to see where you ended up!