finishing up fermentation on a Belgain Dubbel.

[ersheff]

Hello.
Just joined the forum. What a great resource!
My brewing partner and I just checked the gravity on our most recent (third) beer today. It was a slightly modified version of Papazian's Dubbel Your Pleasure.
We added some pumpkin at the advice of another experienced home brewer and just a touch of cinnamon at the end of the boil. I know that might sound sacrilegious, but it was the only way I could convince the brewing partner to brew something with pumpkin. I had it in my head to make some sort of pumpkin beer because I've always been disappointed by commercial versions.
Anyway, the wort smelled FANTASTIC when it came off the boil. Since I'm still new to brewing, I've often just used the "potential alcohol" reading on the side of the hydrometer instead of the true gravity reading because, at this point, I'm mainly just using it as a way to gauge when fermentation has finished. We started at about 7.5-8% "potential alcohol".
Shook the pail to aerate. Pitched Wyeast 1388 Belgian Strong. Might have pitched a little hot as I forgot to check the temp of the wort when we pitched, but we followed the same cooling/topping off process we always have, and the pail was not hot to the touch, so I'm thinking we were at 80-85. Smack pack popped but barely swelled (if at all) over a few hours. Nevertheless, airlock was bubbling within 24-36 hours. Sitting in basement that's fluctuating between 65-68.
Checked on the beer today after 2 weeks. "Potential alcohol" reading was down to 1%. Very low krausen residue on the sides of the pail compared to our last 2 beers, but no signs of infection. Belgian smell was INSANE. I finally get what's going on with Belgian yeasts. Those fruity, banana-y, bubble gummy smells were just hitting us in the face. I was actually a little worried that pitching/temp errors on our part might have encouraged too many undesirable flavors, but a smell of the beer that dripped off the hydrometer once we'd walked away revealed the pumpkin and cinnamon and malt, and much less of the bubble gum and banana, so I think we might be OK.
I rocked the bucket a few times to make sure the yeast are up and about and will check again in a couple days. I'm hoping that the last bit gets fermented as I'd prefer a little drier finish.
I'm posting mostly because it's just fun to talk about beer, but also because I'm wondering about how this will finish up. Will it benefit much more from sitting on the yeast cake after little bit of potential alcohol finishes up? Will sitting on the yeast cake help clean up any undesirable or overpowering flavors, or might that happen in the bottle as well? (we kind of want to bottle as soon as possible so we can have a porter ready by the time my girlfriend comes back from Ireland in mid-December as that's her favorite) Are Belgian yeasts know to have less active and longer fermentations? (this was certainly the case as compared to our first 2 brews with non-Belgian yeasts)
I'm sure a lot of this information is available by searching, but there's SO MUCH information and SO MANY different opinions, that sometimes it's nice to just go ahead and ask.
Thanks to everyone for the awesome forum!!!

 

[bigbeergeek]

What was your original gravity for this batch? Around 1.060? That's a on the low side of the dubbel range, but there's nothing wrong with that. Give the beer a full month in the bucket, then bottle and wait a full three weeks before you toss any in the fridge and start sampling. If the bottles have any off flavors, brew something else to keep you busy and stash the dubbel away somewhere to clean up.

 

[beergolf]

Don't use the potential alcohol scale. Use the gravity readings.

Here is how to calculate ABV.

(OG-FG) x 131=ABV.

As far as Belgian yeasts, they can take a little longer, especially if it was a higher gravity beer. Depending on the OG and the fact that you just used one smack pack, you may definitely need enough time for the beer to finish. I find that Belgians do best with more time in the fermenter and a longer time to bottle condition.

If you read Brew Like a Monk, he says (not exact quote since I don't have the book in front of me but close.)

Give the beer time to finish. It may take as long to get the last few points of attenuation as it does for the first 80%. Consider raising the temp to help the yeast finish.

Belgians can take time.

Your best option is to get another fermenter and do the porter.

 

[Winters49441]

Don't use the potential alcohol scale. Use the gravity readings.

Here is how to calculate ABV.

(OG-FG) x 131=ABV.

As far as Belgian yeasts, they can take a little longer, especially if it was a higher gravity beer. Depending on the OG and the fact that you just used one smack pack, you may definitely need enough time for the beer to finish. I find that Belgians do best with more time in the fermenter and a longer time to bottle condition.

If you read Brew Like a Monk, he says (not exact quote since I don't have the book in front of me but close.)

Give the beer time to finish. It may take as long to get the last few points of attenuation as it does for the first 80%. Consider raising the temp to help the yeast finish.

Belgians can take time.

Your best option is to get another fermenter and do the porter.

Correction (OG-FG) x 131.25= ABV

EVERYTHING ELSE LOOKS GOOD
Start using gravity not potential alcohol. Great advise!

 

[ersheff]

Hey, thanks for the tips.
Although I don't know the exact gravity reading, this was definitely the highest og we've done so far. I think I'll use this opportunity to buy the second fermenter I'd been planning to get anyway so I can get that porter started ASAP and give the dubbel at least another week in the fermenter.
I'm sure I could search to find this information, but at what point do you start pitching more than one smack pack's worth of yeast? Would making a starter from a single pouch/vial of yeast accomplish the same thing as pitching 2 packs/vials to start with? Can I start saving and making starter's for yeast without having a stir plate just yet?

 

[beergolf]

I usually leave my Belgians for at least 5-6 weeks in the primary. So don't be shy about just letting it sit. You will be rewarded with much better beer.

You don't need anything special to make starters. I used to use a glass apple juice bottle, or you can use a growler. Just boil up some DME and cool it, put in the bottle, cover iwth sanitized foil and shake it up everytime you walk by.

A stir plate is easier but necessary. I have one and use it but did many starters with just a bottle.

 

[smizak]

I usually leave my Belgians for at least 5-6 weeks in the primary. So don't be shy about just letting it sit. You will be rewarded with much better beer.

Why is it better?

 

[theonetrueruss]

yeast are magic and magic takes time... seriously... letting it sit longer does several things... 1) it gives the yeast time to clean up a variety of by products they produced during fermentation. 2) things settle out more. 3) fairies come during the night and sprinkle magic yummy dust in the beer.

So you can see waiting is worth it.

Seriously, time heals many off flavors and lets the yeast do what they are evolved to do.

 

[kh54s10]

I made a Belgian Dubbel partial mash kit that was a converted recipe from Northern Brewers extract kit. Per their directions and what I have read I did a primary for just over 2 weeks then transferred to secondary for another 4 weeks. It has been bottled for about a week and a half so I haven't tried one yet.

Everything I read said that the higher gravity and Belgian Yeast, I used Wyeast Trappist High Gravity, need a long time to age fully.

IMO Yeast starters are fairly easy to make. It is commonly accepted that pitching the proper amount of yeast cells (more than smackpacks/vials contain) should result in better beer. So why not do it.

Make your own stirplate. If you can find an old hard drive and computer fan you should be able to make one for under $10. Mine was $7.45

 

[smizak]

yeast are magic and magic takes time... seriously... letting it sit longer does several things... 1) it gives the yeast time to clean up a variety of by products they produced during fermentation. 2) things settle out more. 3) fairies come during the night and sprinkle magic yummy dust in the beer.

So you can see waiting is worth it.

Seriously, time heals many off flavors and lets the yeast do what they are evolved to do.

So the philosophy is to cut corners and neglect good brewing practices in the hope that somehow letting your beer sit around longer before packaging will mask the preceding off flavors? This site makes me crazy sometimes.....

 

[beergolf]

Why is it better?

A food analogy is chili. Think about it. Some recipes are good when you make them but some improve with age. Belgian beers are like chili. They are good when you make them but improve with age.

I learned this with the first Belgian I brewed. I bottled one case of 12 oz bottles, and a case of 22oz bottles. After about 3-4 weeks I started drinking the 12 oz bottles. I did put 6 12 oz bottles away and forgot about them. I drank all of the 12 oz bottles and they were pretty good. After about 6 months I found the other six bottles and the 22oz bottles. I tasted one and was amazed at the change. I had my wife taste one and she asked what beer it was. When I told her which beer it was she said that it was not the same brew because it was soooooooo good. The beer was totally different, in a good way.

Now I always give my Belgians plenty of time to mature.

A lot of brews are good young and I drink them early, but Belgians always get plenty of time to mature. It is worth the wait.

 

[smizak]

My point is to challenge this ridiculous notion that all beers need to sit in the primary for a month or more to be good. Aging is aging. Most properly fermented beers get worse a couple of weeks after final gravity is reached. Even some Belgians. Most beer is best served fresh.

 

[beergolf]

So the philosophy is to cut corners and neglect good brewing practices in the hope that somehow letting your beer sit around longer before packaging will mask the preceding off flavors? This site makes me crazy sometimes.....

No the philosophy is to make good beer. Some beers are ready very early. I would never recommend leaving a wheat or an ESB in the fermenter for a long time.

Belgians are a different animal. Even famous brewers like Denny Conn recomend a much longer time for Belgians. I recently saw a Dennny Conn recipe for a Belgian that recomended 12 weeks in the fermenter and six months in the bottles. I think he knows what he is talking about.

 

[meadowstream]

Smizak, there is not consensus on all good brewing practices. One area of disagreement, as you know, is when or even whether to secondary. I am unfamiliar with magic yummy dust, but it sounds like something that should be GMP/GBP-acceptable.