Finally opened the lid on my first batch and took a picture

[interference]

Hi Long time Drinker, First time Brewer here,
Lots of great information here.

I guess I'm looking for warm hope as I bottle this stuff anyway, right?

I've done a lot of my reading after putting my first batch in the fermenting bucket. Well I've let it sit with a weighted down piece of plastic, going with the CO2 positive pressure sealant method, on top of the bucket since I brewed it on New Year's Eve. So over 2 weeks ago. I figured I knew I would procrastinate my way into letting it sit for at least 2 weeks, so it seemed to me that taking gravity readings would introduce more problems than in might solve.

I've been smelling around the top of the bucket and its been smelling good I guess, like flat beer. So I finally took the lid off tonight, just to see (*next time I'm using a see through piece!) and was a little bummed to get a slight whiff of vinegar. It's been in a shaded closet that I imagine has a temperature range of 60 to 80 degrees F.

Here's the picture.


*click for larger version*

The krausen seems to have formed and dropped. This is a 5 gal extract brew, here are the ingredients if you are curious.

Should I bottle right away since CO2 production has probably slowed? Thanks for any input or guiding questions you might have.

 

[frazier]

Yikes, that looks bad.

You could use a turkey baster and pull a sample from below the mold, and see what you think of the taste. If it's foul, dump it. Some people like sour beers. My LHBS once offered me a sample of 2-year old flanders red. It tasted like vinegar, in a good sort of way. But, not what I would want in a beer.

Good sanitation practices are not optional. Good luck,

 

[m00ps]

vinegar is likely acetobacter. Not one of the "friendly" bacteria organisms that can find their wya into your beer

DO NOT BOTTLE. It will continue to ferment int he bottle and literally explode. Shards of flying glass across the room, weeks later youll end up stepping on some more. Trust me, not a good idea

Only options basically are to wait it out and see if it tastes a bit better down the road or dump it. Either way, get a new fermentor and do not use any sampling equipment that you used with that infected batch

 

[normonster]

I'm sorry dude. Don't be discouraged though. Many people have had infected batches before you.

I'd just let that bucket sit for the next several weeks and maybe take a reading every week to see if it stops and get a new bucket AND AN AIRLOCK and brew again soon. Not that it would help this batch but try to keep your temp more steady (wrap it in a blanket) and be sure to sanitize everything really well.

Cheers!

 

[kylieWylie]

Did you use a food grade sanitizer? Just curious. Star san is a brand name of the one that i used. I used sanitizer on my very first batch and it still got infected with wild yeast. It was a red ale but it turned cloudy and was very sour.

 

[IslandLizard]

Sorry to see this happened to your beer.

Have you read up about cleaning and sanitation needs to make good beer? Washing Soda, (generic) Oxiclean, and PBW are common brewery cleaners. Starsan is one of the best sanitizers and easiest to use.

Now that lid contraption you described, could that have harbored bacteria or allowed "critters" to get in? Before you brew another one, make sure to have a solid grasp on what makes a good fermentor, like a bucket with a snap-on lid. And even then, utter care and sanitation is needed to prevent infections.

Good reading here: How to Brew.

 

[Biscuits]

Ouch, no worries though...just look at it like this, you've gotten your first infection out of the way.

Brew on!

 

[wyccad915]

Your bucket sounds strange. Personally I think you should just get an ale pail. And as everyone mentioned, practice sanitation. I am not even that huge on it but a spray bottle with a star san solution can go a long way.

 

[flars]

You won't be able to get any good beers when the fermentor can experience temperature fluctuations of 20°. Most economical way to control fermentation temperature is a swamp cooler. Most high tech is a fermentation chamber with automated controls for cooling or heating.

 

[Clonefan94]

...Well I've let it sit with a weighted down piece of plastic, going with the CO2 positive pressure sealant method, on top of the bucket since I brewed it on New Year's Eve....

What is this method? Getting a good seal on your bucket is probably not the biggest deal during initial fermentation and high krausen, but once fermentation is over and if you let the temp swing that wildly without a decent seal, you can be introducing infections.

I've never heard of the CO2 positive pressure sealant method with using weights, so I am interested to hear how it works.

 

[interference]

frazier
I didn't think it looked that bad. (I'm trying to not to take this personally )
I going to take a sample today and see what it tastes like.
I love vinegar, been drinking it straight since youth, but I don't know about in my beer. Thanks.

m00ps
I'm thinking about plastic bottles for my first batch. I do not want any bottle bombs. :fro: Thanks for the safety advice, I'm going to taste test it later.

normonster and flars
I'm getting over it slowly, but I still have hope. The odor was very faint. I might have to keep the bucket somewhere else next time, to regulate temperatures. Maybe dig a hole in the ground under the house. Thanks for the tip.

kylieWylie, IslandLizard yeah, I used a bleach rinse after washing. I didn't put vinegar in the diluted bleach like I was supposed to. I think I'd rather not brew beer than go to a rinse free solution, like starsan. I'll be content not knowing how the sausage is made, so to speak.

But in my local climate, warm to hot and humid, with my 'just make it work' personality. This might not be for me. Thanks again for all the supportive replies.

Clonefan94, wyccad915
About the bucket lid, check out the second post in this thread.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=167040

Biscuits Thanks, we'll see!

 

[PeteNMA]

So you're happy to wash your equipment with bleach which is definitely not food grade and is well known to cause problems with beer brewing that use a food grade no rinse sanitizer?

 

[kylieWylie]

Although it is not a human pathogen. Just from personal experience with my wild yeast beer. I am not sure if you want to put it in your belly. Might be a little discomforting. Just trying to be a friend. We are trying to help. I drank my wild yeast beer and bubbleguts galore. but hey, it is your beer.

 

[brrman]

kylieWylie, IslandLizard ... I think I'd rather not brew beer than go to a rinse free solution, like starsan. I'll be content not knowing how the sausage is made, so to speak.

I do not understand this logic... Are you saying you'd rather not make it complicated, or are you afraid the Starsan is unhealthy? Starsan mixes to a solution just like bleach does. There is nothing dangerous or magical about Starsan. It's a very mild acid solution. A single bottle will last you years. I would wager it is safer than bleach.

 

[PADave]

So you're happy to wash your equipment with bleach which is definitely not food grade and is well known to cause problems with beer brewing that use a food grade no rinse sanitizer?

That's the same thing I was thinking. Why waste the time and money to make garbage?

 

[normonster]

If you don't think beer is for you but still want Tomane some alcohol maybe try the rice wine...it likes warmer temps i guess.

 

[LandoLincoln]

So you're happy to wash your equipment with bleach which is definitely not food grade and is well known to cause problems with beer brewing that use a food grade no rinse sanitizer?

Relax, man. No need to jump down his throat.

Bleach is a bad idea. I speak from experience. I know some brewing books talk about it as one possible method of sanitising, but in practice it causes a lot of problems.

You need to get your hands on some Star San concentrate, a gallon of distilled water, a small graduated cylinder (10ml) and a water spray bottle.

Take about 6 ml of Star San concentrate and add to the distilled water and shake it up. Then pour some of the gallon into your spray bottle. You now have your handiest / best defense against contamination.

Spray down everything that touches the beer after boiling, including your hands. There's no need to rinse anything. Don't fear the foam!

 

[IslandLizard]

... kylieWylie, IslandLizard yeah, I used a bleach rinse after washing. I didn't put vinegar in the diluted bleach like I was supposed to. I think I'd rather not brew beer than go to a rinse free solution, like starsan. I'll be content not knowing how the sausage is made, so to speak.

But in my local climate, warm to hot and humid, with my 'just make it work' personality. This might not be for me. Thanks again for all the supportive replies....

Vinegar in the bleach, where did you get that from?

Starsan is a much used sanitizer, even in pro breweries. What is your worry with that product? The working solution is a low concentration of an acid, the same that's in a coke, with a small amount of a surfactant that wets every nook and cranny it touches thoroughly (except some very narrow and deep scratches) and allows microbes to absorb it, which breaks their cell walls. Once diluted with (more) water it's rendered harmless. Read up about it. This is the sausage you want!

The unsanitized headspace in your bucket, wet conditions (condensation), as well as your warm climate helps incubate bugs which can and will infect your beer. A good cleaning and sanitation regimen allows you to brew infection free beer pretty much anywhere, provided the fermentor is closed and nothing can get in there after sanitation. Even a sheet of plexiglass as a make-shift lid will work if handled diligently.

 

[interference]

Edit: I should clarify that I rinsed everything, that I sanitized with bleach solution, with brita water from the tap, which I'm sure is full of all sorts of organisms.

Vinegar in the bleach came from this thread and links within

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=195477

All my crazy ideas came from this site.


I think if I would have bottled right after the krausen dropped it would be in better shape.

I guess I should ask this. If after washing equipment, and then properly using the totally safe and wonderful Star San, would rinsing with water defeat the whole purpose?

 

[poptarts]

stop, dont fear the foam. just use starsan the way it is meant to be used.

 

[KLITE]

I clean my fermenting buckets with isopropyl and the spoon for aeration too. I also grow mushrooms and that my protocol clean eveyrthing with iso twice. Lol i almost shower myuself in bleach when im doing mushroom ''lab'' work.

 

[Brews-Lee]

I guess I should ask this. If after washing equipment, and then properly using the totally safe and wonderful Star San, would rinsing with water defeat the whole purpose?

More or less, yes. Don't rinse it - it's called "no-rinse" for a reason.

Question: Do you have some apprehension to using Star-San?

 

[interference]

More or less, yes. Don't rinse it - it's called "no-rinse" for a reason.

Question: Do you have some apprehension to using Star-San?

I guess my response to that is to ask if all you guys own stock in the company? Seriously though, it's not the Star-San it's the no rinse part. Some irrational fear of foam I guess.

Most of this whole brewing process has been about the trip not the destination for me. And you know what? It's been a fun ride so far.

 

[ZmannR2]

I guess I should ask this. If after washing equipment, and then properly using the totally safe and wonderful Star San, would rinsing with water defeat the whole purpose?

Dude have everything literally dripping wet with star san....your bottles, the fermenting bucket, your spoon any time you put it in a non-boiling wort, the lid, the airlock, the strainer, YOUR HANDS...EVERYTHING!!

Don't fear the stuff it's amazing and won't hurt your beer.....get a spray bottle and when in doubt, spray it down before it touches your beer....

toss that batch, yuck

 

[A2HB]

Get over irrational fear of a practical/useful product vs. money down the drain dumping infected batches

I know which one I would choose

 

[BeardedBrews]

On a separate topic, that looks like the BSG Oktoberfest kit to me. I received it as a gift, brewed it without any infections and with two different yeasts (split batch), and it still tasted gross to me.

If that batch is bad, dump it and don't feel too sad about it. Grab a hoppy kit next time and find someone in your area that brews. Ask if you can come over to brew at their place and let them talk you through how they do things. Watching someone else do it is 100x better than trying to learn from reading alone.

-B

 

[passedpawn]

I guess my response to that is to ask if all you guys own stock in the company? Seriously though, it's not the Star-San it's the no rinse part. Some irrational fear of foam I guess.

Most of this whole brewing process has been about the trip not the destination for me. And you know what? It's been a fun ride so far.

Starsan is phosporic acid. It's in your coke (the kind you drink). DO NOT RINSE.

 

[PeteNMA]

You could drink a pint of correctly diluted starsan and be absolutely fine. Phosphoric acid is used in all kinds of food products as an acidity regulator in order to make them last longer, or to impart flavour.

As you note, fear of the foam is irrational. This is perhaps one of the most important lessons to learn as you start out brewing. Clean, sanitize then use.

 

[blizz81]

If you really hate Starsan foam for some reason...you could sanitize with iodophor. (Also no rinse).

 

[Pantherjon]

If you really hate Starsan foam for some reason...you could sanitize with iodophor. (Also no rinse).

Iodophor is iodine based and will after a few uses, or if ratio is too strong, stain plastic equipment...Just sayin....Use Star-San or Iodophor, DO NOT RINSE..

 

[flars]

Hey Guys, be cool. I sanitized with bleach for over 10 years with no problems. You just need to learn how to handle the products you will use in brewing.

 

[IslandLizard]

On a separate topic, that looks like the BSG Oktoberfest kit to me. I received it as a gift, brewed it without any infections and with two different yeasts (split batch), and it still tasted gross to me.

If that batch is bad, dump it and don't feel too sad about it. Grab a hoppy kit next time and find someone in your area that brews. Ask if you can come over to brew at their place and let them talk you through how they do things. Watching someone else do it is 100x better than trying to learn from reading alone.

-B

Oktoberfest is a lager and needs be fermented at lager temps with lager yeast, then lagered for 4-8 weeks near 32°F...

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

Interference, right about now you're probably feeling a little (or a lot) overwhelmed and a bit brain-fried. Take a break and think of anything besides brewing. Then get a fresh start.

If it's in your budget, get a Better Bottle or Big Mouth Bubbler plastic carboy. They are totally see-thru and no lid needed. Just an airlock. Fill it with hot water and about a scoop of Oxyclean Versatile (the unsented one) and let it soak for a couple of hours. Rinse it out several times, let it drain and store it upside down.

On your next brew day, fill it with Star San solution or Iodophor solution while you're brewing. When your boil is done and cooled, dump some of the solution into a pot or bucket and put in your airlock, stopper, funnel, siphon, siphon tubing, yeast packet, scissors and anything else that will be or could be in contact with the cooled wort. Dump any remaining sanitizer out of the carboy and do not rinse.

Pour in your wort and yeast. Put some sanitizer (or vodka) in the airlock and fix it into the fermenter. Place the fermenter in a big tub of 65F water. Use frozen water jugs or boiling water added to the tub to keep the brew in the mid 60's as time goes by.

Then sit back and watch the show. Fermenting beer is like one of those video fireplaces - it's fascinating to watch. You'll see all the phases of fermentation. Mostly, Relax, Don't Worry ... and, well, you know the rest.

 

[madcowbrewing]

First, the bleach can be used if properly rinsed. But the Star San is much safer, meaning, like previously said, you can drink it when diluted. But as no one else is saying, if it makes you feel better, RINSE IT OFF!! I still do it occasionally to this day. It is a no-rinse, because you don't have to, but you can...... All in all, I think the bigger issue was the non-sealed fermenter and the big fermentation temperature swings. Get a closed system and use a water bath. You will be drinking homebrew in no time.

 

[PeteNMA]

The whole point of no rinse sanitizer is that the last thing which touches your equipment before your wort is sanitizer. If you rinse if off you stand a chance of defeating the point of sanitising in the first place. It's no rinse because your supposed to not rinse it, it's instructional, not suggestive.

 

[madcowbrewing]

The whole point of no rinse sanitizer is that the last thing which touches your equipment before your wort is sanitizer. If you rinse if off you stand a chance of defeating the point of sanitising in the first place. It's no rinse because your supposed to not rinse it, it's instructional, not suggestive.

http://www.fivestarchemicals.com/wp-content/uploads/Star-San-HB4.pdf

http://www.fivestarchemicals.com/wp-content/uploads/StarSanTech-HB2.pdf

I guess it depends on how you use. Again, it is not necessary but if it makes the OP feel better about using, why couldn't he rinse with potable water as suggested with the HB4?

To each their own. Just trying to help with any worries or fears.

 

[normonster]

I'll actually follow up an unclean thought with a shot of Starsan, that's how good this **** is.

 

[merse24]

Hey, I can understand the whole "I like to know what's in my sausage" comment. My wife is the type that buys only all natural or organic foods at the store.... so I completely understand the thought of wanting to know what you're ingesting.

As others have stated, Star San is simply Phosphoric acid (used in Coke)

If you don't want that, you can use Iodophor, which is simply an Iodine solution (Iodine is used in hospitals across the country prior to breaking the skin in surgery).

On the topic of temperature control, I've had VERY similar results as you, since I don't really have a good temperature controlled environment to use. My garage swings WAY too much and my house is way too warm so I purchased a Cool Brewing Fermentation Bag. I put my fermentation bucket in there and wrap it with a wet towel which will usually keep it right around 70 degrees. If I need to go below that, I will put a few (3-5) frozen water bottles inside as well. Just make sure to replace the bottles as the thaw out. I've had no problems since!

 

[interference]

Alright, alright everybody I'm down with the Star-San.

I think my main problems were the recipe and temperature control.

BeardedBrews you are correct about the oktoberfest recipe, and mine was also a gift, but I think I will try again with a higher temperature range recipe.

IslandLizard the instructions didn't say anything about cold lagering.

Well some of this beer just happened to get bottled so I might put a few in a bomb proof case and shove them in the back of the fridge. I mainly filled some 2 liters, for science, and capped 15 bottles. I have them wrapped up in cooler part of the closet right now.

Here what the beer looks like if you're curious.

In a plastic carboy
http://i.imgur.com/htKYJwG.jpg?1

Some in a bottle
http://i.imgur.com/SYbKkJ0.jpg?1

Thanks again everyone for all the advice.

 

[BeardedBrews]

Oktoberfest is a lager and needs be fermented at lager temps with lager yeast, then lagered for 4-8 weeks near 32°F...

http://bsghandcraft.com/downloads/TrueBrewInstructions/K23-Oktoberfest.pdf

All of these things are true, which is why I split the batch. Even properly fermented the kit was not great. As (or more) important as the lager conditions is the malt profile, which I believe the kit missed by a mile.

It was a fun experiment, just not a beer I would make again.

-B