Fermenting in Sankes?

[WortMonger]

I use oxy too. Sometimes I just use cold water if they are going to soak a coupe of days.

 

[Scut_Monkey]

I use oxy too. Sometimes I just use cold water if they are going to soak a coupe of days.

I see. That makes more sense. I thought maybe you had special water with magical powers or something. :cross:

 

[Randar]

Be sure to compare their offering with the Brewers hardware kit.
http://www.brewershardware.com/American-Sanke-Keg-Fermenter-Kit-with-Thermowell.html

I'm using this and it is fantastic. No need for the racking arm setup or thermometer that Sabco offers. Just use a sanke keg with the spear removed and put the unit on the top with the tri-clamp. I really like the internal thermowell for monitor the fermentation temps.

I have it and here is my complaint... I cannot use CO2 pressure to pump out trub or to transfer to final kegs. Basically, advantage of conical is dumping trub and excess yeast and using a single vessel for primary and secondary. Don't seem to be able to do this with the brewershardware kit.

 

[JonW]

I have it and here is my complaint... I cannot use CO2 pressure to pump out trub or to transfer to final kegs. Basically, advantage of conical is dumping trub and excess yeast and using a single vessel for primary and secondary. Don't seem to be able to do this with the brewershardware kit.

Why can't you pump out with CO2? Are you not getting a seal somewhere so the CO2 can't pressurize the sanke?

I use a 1/2" ID hose on the blowoff port with a MFL fitting on the other end. The MFL fitting is inside the blowoff jug during fermentation, but then I attach CO2 when ready to push the beer out. I use a 3/8" clear line attached to the racking cane that is pulled up from the bottom about 3-4 inches. I have a mini valve on that line also so I can start/stop the beer flow. When I'm approaching the 10 gallon mark, I usually start sucking a little air, so I start to slowly push the racking cane further into the sanke. If it starts sucking trub, I stop as I've got all the beer there is to get. You can then push the racking can all the way down and use another vessel to capture as much trub/yeast as you want.

 

[Randar]

Why can't you pump out with CO2? Are you not getting a seal somewhere so the CO2 can't pressurize the sanke?

I use a 1/2" ID hose on the blowoff port with a MFL fitting on the other end. The MFL fitting is inside the blowoff jug during fermentation, but then I attach CO2 when ready to push the beer out. I use a 3/8" clear line attached to the racking cane that is pulled up from the bottom about 3-4 inches. I have a mini valve on that line also so I can start/stop the beer flow. When I'm approaching the 10 gallon mark, I usually start sucking a little air, so I start to slowly push the racking cane further into the sanke. If it starts sucking trub, I stop as I've got all the beer there is to get. You can then push the racking can all the way down and use another vessel to capture as much trub/yeast as you want.

Are you just transferring via siphon with CO2 backpressure to fill the void? I don't see a way to seal sufficiently to force the beer up through the racking cane. Are you using a hose clamp on the blow-off port? How many PSI are you pushing?

 

[JonW]

I clean mine with Oxy free and hot water..shake, let soak for few days. Then shake dump,shake while dumping. rinse with water. done. Before next use I rinse,boil 2 gals hard with Alum foil on top. Dump,let cool and fill.

I do this exact process (except PBW, not Oxy) and you can bet that if there were any little crud still left inside, it is dead and incapable of affecting your wort after the boil/steam cleansing.

 

[JonW]

Are you just transferring via siphon with CO2 backpressure to fill the void? I don't see a way to seal sufficiently to force the beer up through the racking cane. Are you using a hose clamp on the blow-off port? How many PSI are you pushing?

Yes, hose clamps on both ends of the blowoff tube to seal the MFL fitting and to the top of the Brewershardware unit. The racking can needs to have the o-rings installed that came with the unit. You don't need to tighten the nut very far to get a good seal. You also need to have the thin o-ring installed under the tri-clap ring to seal to the top of the keg. My output hose also has clamps on it to seal to the racking cane. I start the CO2 push with the regulator fully open (no pressure) and then open my beer line on the racking cane and then slowly start to apply some pressure by adjusting the regulator up. I probably only use 2-4 psi - it is very low. It's all push - no siphon.

 

[3 Dog Brew]

Basically, advantage of conical is dumping trub and excess yeast and using a single vessel for primary and secondary. Don't seem to be able to do this with the brewershardware kit.

Okay, now we are waffling... Sanke's or conicals? I could have 8 brewers hardware sanke fermenters for the cost of a single conical, but cost isn't the only consideration. It's an important one, but...

 

[Randar]

Well, I would like to give it a try with my setup before opining one way or the other on that, 3 Dog. Key for me will be proving that I can dump trub and yeast via racking cane and CO2 pressure. I have one of the Stout Tanks conicals and I do like it, but it is not the most space-efficient and it is probably ~4x the cost (compared to finding a keg on craigslist and buying the conversion kit).

If this works, then I agree with those who only ferment in Sankes and I might be looking to sell my conical, LOL!

 

[Randar]

And one additional note. 2-person carrying of Sanke is probably easier than moving a conical when they are full (unless you pop for the casters $$$$) Sanke also easier to move if you just keep it sitting on one of those plant stands with rollers.

 

[klyph]

You cannot perform a "trub dump" on a sanke, as you will only draw the trub immediately surrounding the dip tube. You can rack the beer off of the trub, then harvest the yeast by washing.

 

[WortMonger]

Yep, just transfer your beer first, fill with your yeast washing water, and transfer all of that to your collection vessel for washing. Easy....

 

[3 Dog Brew]

Along these lines, I've been listening to Jamil on Beer Radio and he has me starting to believe that the secondary is unnecessary. He says he leaves the beer on the yeast until fermentation is complete and everything drops clear before racking. For an ale that is roughly 14 days and a lager can be 6 weeks. Just saying, it may not be all that important to dump trub and yeast midway through fermentation.

Another option I heard, if you are confident in your sanitation, is to rack the wort to one vessel and once cold break and trub drop out, rack to your fermenter and then pitch the yeast. This was John Plise's (More Beer) technique if I got the voices right.

 

[wyzazz]

It may be more important to get the beer off the yeast when fermenting under pressure, because this accelerates the maturation process and kind of emulates the large tall conicals that the big boys use.

If I'm not mistaken WortMonger (and others using this technique) typically has most of his beers ready faster than most of us due to this.

 

[WortMonger]

I usually only say that my beer is done faster due to the fact it is carbonated prior to final transfer. I try to leave a typical ale on the yeast for at least 3 weeks (this includes the carbonation maturation time) before crash cooling and transferring to my serving keg. So, lets say I am maturing for 2 weeks letting the yeast clean up any of the bad stuff after a couple of days to a week of primary fermentation. That's pretty typical, and then others have to wait a week to 3 for their carbonic bite to meld after force carbonating. By this logic, at the end of this 3 weeks under a normal schedule I should be ready a week earlier at best... so I don't rush and count the "extra week" as further maturation and drink under the same schedule as if I didn't pressure ferment. I just like the way transfers and tests go with P-ferment, not time-tables. Still... it is possible to go grain to glass in 3 weeks and have a tasty beverage without force carbonating if you really wanted to.

 

[sudbuster]

Along these lines, I've been listening to Jamil on Beer Radio and he has me starting to believe that the secondary is unnecessary. He says he leaves the beer on the yeast until fermentation is complete and everything drops clear before racking. For an ale that is roughly 14 days and a lager can be 6 weeks. Just saying, it may not be all that important to dump trub and yeast midway through fermentation.

Another option I heard, if you are confident in your sanitation, is to rack the wort to one vessel and once cold break and trub drop out, rack to your fermenter and then pitch the yeast. This was John Plise's (More Beer) technique if I got the voices right.

That is how I've been brewing lagers, and have had no problems with contamination. The cold temps seem to help.

 

[WortMonger]

What micron level (if you filtered) do you guys think trub/break is? I have always been curious as to if a wort filter would be perfect for lagers. Ales, I couldn't care less if everything makes it into the fermenter.

 

[sudbuster]

What micron level (if you filtered) do you guys think trub/break is? I have always been curious as to if a wort filter would be perfect for lagers. Ales, I couldn't care less if everything makes it into the fermenter.

Wortmonger, I use a 3 micron filter made for beer, It can be back flushed and put in the pressure cooker and used again. After the trub drops, the lager wort goes through the filter and on into the fermenter.

 

[Scut_Monkey]

Wortmonger, I use a 3 micron filter made for beer, It can be back flushed and put in the pressure cooker and used again. After the trub drops, the lager wort goes through the filter and on into the fermenter.

Where did you get it from? Part number?

 

[bad67z]

Ok, you all have my interest! I have been hording Sanke's (10 or so) for year, getting ready to upgrade my system to 10g. Sounds like I have some catching up to do. Thanks for the info WortMonger.

 

[WortMonger]

Wortmonger, I use a 3 micron filter made for beer, It can be back flushed and put in the pressure cooker and used again. After the trub drops, the lager wort goes through the filter and on into the fermenter.

Wow, I figured 3 micron would be way to fine for kettle wort. Nice to hear this.

Where did you get it from? Part number?

Yep, I wanna know too. I have been reading lamarguy's filtering posts and have his information, but more is always appreciated. I'm hoping I can find a stainless steel pleated filter for a canister one day.

Ok, you all have my interest! I have been hording Sanke's (10 or so) for year, getting ready to upgrade my system to 10g. Sounds like I have some catching up to do. Thanks for the info WortMonger.

Keep collecting and you will have a huge pipeline of beer, lol. Your welcome. I'm just glad so many people are using and talking about Sankes.

 

[Randar]

Well, I would like to give it a try with my setup before opining one way or the other on that, 3 Dog. Key for me will be proving that I can dump trub and yeast via racking cane and CO2 pressure. I have one of the Stout Tanks conicals and I do like it, but it is not the most space-efficient and it is probably ~4x the cost (compared to finding a keg on craigslist and buying the conversion kit).

If this works, then I agree with those who only ferment in Sankes and I might be looking to sell my conical, LOL!

So I have done a couple batches now with the kegs and can vouch for transferring under pressure. In fact, I used a corny pressurized to 60+ PSI as a "jumper" pressure vessel for transfer and everything held pressure perfectly, so the fermenter kit from brewer's hardware really did the trick.

Biggest complaints?

- Dry hopping is a PITA with tiny opening. Can't get mesh bags in/out very easily or avoid clogging the siphon
- sucking yeast/trub is nearly impossible. You can suck out a little cone of junk from around the base of the siphon tube, but it does not provide enough of a collection area to really be effective. My answer for this is to xfer to another keg for secondary and then you can wash out or collect the yeast/trub from that keg. Adds another step, yes, but you can do 4 kegs for the price of one of the stout tanks conicals, so I would argue it is worth it.

 

[WortMonger]

I still don't see the "need" for anything other than a Sanke tap connector for this, for fermentation or just for transferring. As for dry hopping, I've been working on an idea for us keg-fermenters. Please contribute ideas so I can make it right first off!

 

[WPStrassburg]

I'm hoping I can find a stainless steel pleated filter for a canister one day.

http://www.filterbag.com/SS-Pleated-Cartridge-26.html

I'm trying out a 100 micron one this weekend to filter out of the mash tun and boil kettle.

 

[WortMonger]

Sweeeet! Please let me know how it works for you. PM or post here. I'm very very interested in polishing my lauter run-off and kettle wort. One of these would be perfect if the housing can handle near boiling temperatures. Anyone know how hot you van go in a clear housing?

 

[Dgonza9]

Considering my options for dry hopping. I'm fermenting in a sanke with modified keg coupler and spund valve.

Options:

1) Dry hop in the serving cornies using something like THIS Bit expensive but this one should definitely hold an ounce or more of hops.

2) Remove the spear and drop hops into sanke. Then spray out later. I'm actually wondering if this isn't the better option. I have cut the spear about 3/4" so I'm hoping most of the hops will settle below it. I assume getting hop sludge out of sanke is really no harder than getting it out of a glass carboy. I imagine others have tried this, so I'd appreciate hearing how it worked out for you or if there are other options I am overlooking.

Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving.

 

[grumpybrewer]

I also use the brewershardware tri clamp. it works awesome. no problems at all.:rockin: