Fermented peppers taste like beer

[PeterPiper]

Hey all!

For years now I've been banging my head on the proverbial wall trying to get consistent pickled red/ripe jalapeno peppers that don't go foul (ie taste like beer).

I thought I had it last year after watching this video [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amDzKP-PkNg[/ame] where I learned: Do NOT take the lid off and fiddle with the peppers! A CO2 layer is important. So the peppers I made last year were great and I decided to up the production this year, but following the same recipe, I have 30 jars of beer.

I've worn out the internet searching and this site is my last hope... other than getting downright scientific about it by making jars with every possible combination of salt, sugar, vinegar and then struggling to discover any trends.

One observation I made last night was that in June I got a little anxious and decided to make a few jars of pickled peppers using green jalapenos while waiting on the others to ripen and I have 1 jar left. The interesting thing is the green ones are pickled fine and so I'm wondering if the difference between the red and green peppers is the sugar content and it's the excess sugar that is making the beer. (My red jalapenos are REALLY sweet... almost like candy.)

The beer isn't super-terrible and I catch a wee buzz from eating a few peppers , but it's fairly bitter with questionable toxicity. It's a good thing I didn't set out to make beer or I'd have kerosene or something.

Anyway, if it is an issue of too much sugar, then what can I do to combat the problem? Less peppers per jar and more water? More salt? What about adding a spoon of vinegar to the ferment?

Yup, I'm asking people who make beer how to not make beer

 

[Miraculix]

It is very simple. Use good glasses with these rubber things to seal the lid, not silicon.

Top up the chillies with at least 2% salt water solution, meaning at least 20 g salt per Liter water, you can also take 30 gram anything in between will do the job, I stick to 20.

Make sure the chillies are not floating, they have to be covered by the solution covered. Just put it somewhere at room temperature and wait a few weeks till wild lactic acid fermentation did it's job

After fermentation, it will last for ages, after opening it has to be stored in the fridge, but still lasts ages.

And yes, never open unless you want to eat it.

This recipe works for every vegetable.

 

[PeterPiper]

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware I had a reply.

It is very simple. Use good glasses with these rubber things to seal the lid, not silicon.

I use regular canning jars and back when I had a few good picklings, I had used the metal lids. Now I use the plastic ones to prevent rust, but they don't hold the pressure as well. I've wondered if that has something to do with my failure rate. A batch of pickled peppers I made in 2016 actually buckled the metal lid.

Top up the chillies with at least 2% salt water solution, meaning at least 20 g salt per Liter water, you can also take 30 gram anything in between will do the job, I stick to 20.

I've tried all different amounts of salt and it doesn't seem to make much difference.

Make sure the chillies are not floating, they have to be covered by the solution covered. Just put it somewhere at room temperature and wait a few weeks till wild lactic acid fermentation did it's job

I used to try to keep them under water, but realized it's impossible and not important so long as there is a layer of co2 on top of the water. The jars have to be sealed tightly such that co2 can exit under pressure, but air cannot enter.

After fermentation, it will last for ages, after opening it has to be stored in the fridge, but still lasts ages.

Once exposed to air, it quickly turns to beer, even in the fridge.

This recipe works for every vegetable.

Yes, I can make kraut and cucumber pickles just fine, but there is something different about red jalapenos. I honestly think they have too much sugar. Next season I may try a different kind of pepper... one that isn't as meaty and sweet.

So, I did some experimenting last fall and found a few spoons of vinegar added at the beginning helped prevent the beer taste. Interestingly, citric acid had the opposite effect. (And, counter-intuitively, vinegar added to cucumber pickles prevents the pickling process)

Also, the water I'm using is a complete unknown since it's well water. One year it may be more acid than another year, who knows. I may try distilled water in the future.

Pickling jalapeno peppers is one of the harder challenges I've had in life, but when done right, I can demolish a whole jar in a sitting and they're a good source of vitamin C in winter. (Jalapenos have more C than oranges.)

 

[FunkedOut]

Not exactly the same but similar...

I’ve been making hot sauce for years by first chopping up peppers and filling a mason jar with them. I spoon in a tablespoon of coarse sea salt over every pint of chopped peppers, nothing else.
Then I put a lid on and boil the jars to can them.

I slap a date on them and put them in those cabinets above the fridge for at least a year.

When you open them up, they have fermented out and the first whiff smells like cheese. Once that clear, it’s a delicious pepper smell.

Blend the contents with 5% white vinegar and strain.
At this point the acid is preserving the stuff and it keeps without refridgeration for months.
Delicious too.

I use habaneros and up which may not pan out for jalapeños; ph matters.

 

[FunkedOut]

Also, I’ve had habanero peppers that I just washed and dropped in vinegar that lasted over a year.
Have to use 5% vinegar.
They go bad in weaker stuff.

 

[PeterPiper]

Not exactly the same but similar....

I've never tried boiling first. That may help.

Another guy told me he put peppers in a 5 gal bucket, then some salt, then more peppers and salt and so on. Then a dinner plate on top and let it ferment. I forgot the exact recipe, but it involved boiling as well, but after the fermenting. Maybe I should leave out the water and only use salt?

I use habaneros and up which may not pan out for jalapeños; ph matters.

I'm thinking the biggest difference between the two is the sugar content. Jalapenos are like eating candy.

Also, I’ve had habanero peppers that I just washed and dropped in vinegar that lasted over a year.

I've done that too. I have some banana peppers from 2012 still soaking in vinegar, but haven't got the balls to try them lol

 

[imasickboy]

Peppers, and salt. Peppers, and salt. Peppers, and salt. If after sitting for an hour, there's not enough juice to submerge them all, mix a brine of distilled and salt, 2-3%, and add enough to keep them well submerged. The dinner plate in a bucket is a great method.

Adding Caldwell's vegetable starter is a good insurance policy for lacto fermentations. I'd try some if I were you. Amazon has it.

Also, be sure you're using canning salt, and not table salt.

Good luck!

 

[Evilgrin]

Yeast need oxygen to thrive. Using a good fermenter minimizes oxygen and the "yeasty" flavor. Ive fermented tons of ripe peppers including jalapeno and fresno. Ive never had them taste like beer but occasionally you will get some kahm yeast on top.

I use a fermenter with an inner lid and for a starter i just use some juice from homemade kraut or kimchi. You wont taste it in the finished ferment. Farmhouse sells a probiotic drink called Gut Shots that should work well also as a starter. You only need a couple tbs of juice to kick start a ferment.
https://www.farmhouseculture.com/gut-shots

If i do get some kahm yeast on top of the inner lid i just pour it off and add a couple tbs of vinegar. That usually puts an end to anymore.

 

[Temptd2]

Now that is a very cool fermenter! Where did you get it, and/or what is it called so I can look for one? Thanks!

 

[Evilgrin]

Mine is called a Nice Lok. You can get the Ejen brand on Amazon or from crazykoreancooking. I bought mine at the Korean market.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00SWBJJQ0/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00M40ANSI/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[Temptd2]

Thank you!! Very helpful!

 

[PeterPiper]

Thanks for the replies everyone! That is a nifty fermenter! I should give the starter a shot as well. I've considered it before, but I guess I wanted to keep it simple. Having to buy so many things from the store makes me wonder how they managed 100 years ago lol

Yes, I'm curious about the relationship of the beer-taste/yeast to oxygen and since sugar is C6H12O6, I was wondering if some roundabout way the O2 is liberated from the sugar and is feeding the yeast.

Anyway, this is essentially what I have been doing:



The added vinegar does seem to help, but not added citric acid (which had the opposite effect). Of course, I don't know how to equate 1 tbsp vinegar to powered citric acid, so I just guessed.

 

[Evilgrin]

A starter is SUPER simple. Just make some kraut or buy a bag of natural kraut with live bacteria. Enjoy your kraut and save some of the brine for starters.

Use lactic acid from the brew shop. A tiny bit goes a long way in adjusting ph for a pepper mash brine.

I use a little vinegar at the end of making the fermented sauce just for adjusting ph and flavor. I would also suggest a much longer ferment time than a couple weeks. 90 days or more if possible. Lots of guys go a year or more on their higher end stuff.

 

[Miraculix]

The nice thing about home made fermented vegetables is that they contain a huge variety of beneficial bacterias and yeasts which will settle in your cologne and help you stay healthy. By using starters from store bought products, you will limit this variety immensly.

Best is to not use a starter at all, also not from previously wildly fermented vegetables, but to let them go by themselve in the brine, not cooked not sterilised, nothing. Everything necessary is already present on the skin of the vegetables.

You just need a 2% salt solution covering the vegetables (20g salt on 1l of water), the salt should not be fortified with iodine, untreated seasalt is best (providing additional minerals for the bugs). The water shall not be chlorinated! Use a jar that closes airtight but let's excessive CO2 out. Do not use silicon sealing rings but rubber ones. The Silicon ones may work but have a bigger failure rate than the rubber ones.

Just fill it into the glas, wait a few weeks, see it bubbeling after a few days (it will probably spill some liquid, so place it in a bucket for the first one or two weeks) and enjoy it when finished.

Ones opened store it in the fridge, it will still alst for ages.

Honestly, do not use starters.

If you want "crisp" vegetables, for example for gurkins which might turn soft otherwise, double the salt content, this will keep them crunchy but will also limit the variety of beneficial bugs. A 2% salt solution really is the best solution, it keeps the bad bugs away and still enables a lot of the good ones to grow, if you let them by not using a starter.

During the active fermentation there are different types of microorganisms coming and going, by just adding the brine from a ferment that is already done you will skip a lot of those stages and will not benefit from their byproducts and their healthimpact.

I have been a bit active in a German community which is called "wilde Fermente", led by a lady who really knows her way around wildly fermented vegetables. And I did a lot of wildly fermented vegetables myself, following those advises given above will have a really high successrate and result in very healthy and most delicous fermented vegetables covered with a huge variety of beneficial microorganisms, you can throw away your probiotica when doing and eating this.

 

[Evilgrin]

Ive used a starter from so many batches of kimchi and kraut its not even funny. Not one has turned mushy. You can even boil my kimchi, turnip, kohlrabi or radish for several minutes and its still crunchy. I do it all the time when making kimchi stew. Even the little bits of carrot are still firm.

The huge difference is in the time it takes to turn sour. I just made a batch of nappa and Taiwanese cabbage kimchi without a starter. It took nearly 5 days to get sour enough to go in the fridge. When i use a starter from previous batch it always smells sours within 3 days. After a few weeks to a month in the fridge its pucker sour. After 6 months its flat out killer.

Ferment as cool as possible but a good kick start helps a ton.

 

[NickTheGreat]

I did my first batch of hot sauce this season, and did the fermented style. I did it differently and blended the pepper first and fermented in a jar. I basically followed this one
https://honest-food.net/fermented-hot-sauce-recipe/

But didn't do the oak or xanthan gum, but I wish i had; the sauce separates badly.

But I got a fair amount of mold growing on top. I just removed it and never got anything resembling 'beer.' I am puzzled by that statement.

 

[PeterPiper]

A starter is SUPER simple. Just make some kraut or buy a bag of natural kraut with live bacteria. Enjoy your kraut and save some of the brine for starters.

Use lactic acid from the brew shop. A tiny bit goes a long way in adjusting ph for a pepper mash brine.

I use a little vinegar at the end of making the fermented sauce just for adjusting ph and flavor. I would also suggest a much longer ferment time than a couple weeks. 90 days or more if possible. Lots of guys go a year or more on their higher end stuff.

What is it about kraut that is different from peppers that it would contain the bacteria I need? Off the top of my head, I know sulfur is needed in the ground more-so to grow cabbage vs peppers, but I don't know anything about cabbage itself. Sulfur is typically an acid-thing, so maybe...

https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/...=&measureby=&Qv=1&ds=&qt=&qp=&qa=&qn=&q=&ing=

https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/...=&measureby=&Qv=1&ds=&qt=&qp=&qa=&qn=&q=&ing=

Not much difference according to USDA. Jalapenos have more sugar and vitamin C (acid) while cabbage has more calcium (base). The opposite of expected.

I know peppers grow flawlessly in my dirt, but cabbage won't grow for nothing. I have a fairly acid soil and blueberries grow like weeds under every tree and building.

I was also wondering if a longer ferment time would solve my problems. Maybe the beer taste would go away.

I'll be sure to pick up some lactic acid. I wasn't aware I could buy it.

 

[PeterPiper]

I did my first batch of hot sauce this season, and did the fermented style. I did it differently and blended the pepper first and fermented in a jar. I basically followed this one
https://honest-food.net/fermented-hot-sauce-recipe/

But didn't do the oak or xanthan gum, but I wish i had; the sauce separates badly.

But I got a fair amount of mold growing on top. I just removed it and never got anything resembling 'beer.' I am puzzled by that statement.

lol it's not just me. I've had a few people try my peppers and they taste like beer. Exactly like beer. Not good beer either, but flat warm beer.

I looked all over online and found nothing about it. If you type in "peppers taste like beer", this is the only thread that pops up. It's amazing that I could have this problem lol

I also tried your method a few years ago and didn't care for it because of the mold growth. It's too hard to keep the mush below the water. Of course, that's before I watched that video and learned the secret about the CO2 layer and the importance of not opening the jar to poke stuff back below the water. I've done probably 100 jars since and it absolutely doesn't matter if the peppers float so long as the jar is never opened or air allowed to go inside.

 

[PeterPiper]

Best is to not use a starter at all, also not from previously wildly fermented vegetables, but to let them go by themselve in the brine, not cooked not sterilised, nothing. Everything necessary is already present on the skin of the vegetables.

So don't boil before the ferment? That was an idea I was going to try per a comment in this thread.

You just need a 2% salt solution covering the vegetables (20g salt on 1l of water), the salt should not be fortified with iodine, untreated seasalt is best (providing additional minerals for the bugs). The water shall not be chlorinated! Use a jar that closes airtight but let's excessive CO2 out. Do not use silicon sealing rings but rubber ones. The Silicon ones may work but have a bigger failure rate than the rubber ones.

I use Morton Pickling Salt and my well water which is good enough that a crew of workers filled jugs to take home with them once. Sometimes I wonder if my water changes and causes good and bad pickling years.

Honestly, do not use starters.

Can it hurt?

During the active fermentation there are different types of microorganisms coming and going, by just adding the brine from a ferment that is already done you will skip a lot of those stages and will not benefit from their byproducts and their healthimpact.

So do not reuse the brine?

I have been a bit active in a German community which is called "wilde Fermente", led by a lady who really knows her way around wildly fermented vegetables. And I did a lot of wildly fermented vegetables myself, following those advises given above will have a really high successrate and result in very healthy and most delicous fermented vegetables covered with a huge variety of beneficial microorganisms, you can throw away your probiotica when doing and eating this.

Oh I agree they are awesome when done right! I can eat a whole jar in a sitting when they don't taste like beer lol.

Did you know that kraut was the solution to scurvy on ocean voyages? The amount of vitamin C actually increases in the ferment and it's a good source of vitamin C during winter when no fruits are growing. https://modernfarmer.com/2014/04/magical-sour-cabbage-sauerkraut-helped-save-age-sail/

 

[Miraculix]

Never boil vegetables you would like to ferment. You want wild lactic acid fermentation to kick in and that is done by the wild bugs on the surface of the veggies which would be killed by boiling.

I do not know about Morton's salt, but as long as it is just natural salt, it should be fine. But you really just need untreated sea or, even better, rock salt next time you go shopping.

If you are unsure about your water, I would maybe boil it before and let it cool down before using it. but I think your well water should actually be perfect as it is.

The starter will hurt the variety of the bugs in the finished ferment and the taste will also differ. Really, don't. Just don't.

Rinse your veggies, fill them in a glass, fido is a really good brand, cover them with 2% salty brine, close it, let it ferment for about 3 weeks minimum at room temperature and that's it! You can add dill or mustard seeds or garlic or onion or ....... Experiment a lot! Ginger carrots are nice, garlic and dill gurkins as well, so many possibilities!