Fermentaion Temp

[beerguy2009]

I am making an American Amber ale today using Wyeast American Ale II yeast. I am guessing I am going to have a problem getting the wort any cooler that about 70 to 72 degrees as it is warm here and I checked the water temp coming out of the fauct yesterday and it was 69 to 70 degrees. I use a immersion chiller to cool the wort. The room where I ferment my beer stays at between 68 and 72 degrees.
I am looking for opinions on how baddly this will affect the beer. American ale II yeast fermentation range is 60 to 72 degrees according to Wyeast so I am riding right at the top of the range.

 

[Pappers_]

You could use a tub of water with frozen bottles, put the Carboy in there and swap out the ice bottles twice a day.

 

[MZRIS]

Honestly you are not going to hurt the beer being a little on the warm side at most you could get some esters from the yeast which could actually help the flavor of your beer depending on what your doing. If you can stay below 75 degrees that should be plenty cool enough to avoid any undesirable issues! Also - under pitching your yeast can be as bad as high ferm temps. it can lead to more mutations in the cell division process because it requires more yeast to be created to eat all the sugars.

more info:

Estery/Fruity
Tastes/Smells Like:
Fruit, especially banana, to a lesser extent, pear, strawberry, raspberry, grapefruit
Possible Causes:
Esters are a naturally occurring byproduct of fermentation. Certain ales are supposed
to have these fruity flavors, such as Belgian ales and Hefeweizens (German Wheat
beer) and certain types of yeast produce more esters than others. Strong fruity flavors
or fruity flavors that are inappropriate for the style of beer are sometimes a result of
under pitching or high fermentation temperatures. As a general rule, the higher the
fermentation temperature, the more esters the yeast will produce. In addition to high
fermentation temperatures, low oxygen levels can also help increase the production
of esters.

 

[mtyquinn]

I wouldn't worry to much. Try to keep the temp consistent. If you can a water bath with the frozen bottles or ice packs is a good way to keep it cool but you have to stay on it, especially the first few days.

 

[3sheetsEMJ]

I wouldn't worry to much. Try to keep the temp consistent. If you can a water bath with the frozen bottles or ice packs is a good way to keep it cool but you have to stay on it, especially the first few days.

I have the same issue living in Atlanta, brewing beer in the summer can be tough since the ambient room temp is 75-78, plus the temp of your fermenting wort will increase due to the slight exothermic biological reactions taking place. All things considered in those conditions fermenting beer can easily get to the mid 80s, which will damage the yeast and the character of your brew.

I started using a swamp cooler as explained above. I bought a tote ( a plastic container large enough to fit my 2 3gallon fermentors) filled it to the brim with water, and added a small frozen water bottle, which I replaced every 6-12 hrs. I would do this for at least the first 5-8 days, as thats when the most important reactions occur. After that letting thebrew go to ambient temp is no issue and I have heard it can actually speed up the yeast activity which at that point is mainly the yeast consuming their own biproducts and "cleaning up after themselves".

I switched to a swamp cooler 4 brews ago and man can I tell the difference!!!

 

[dstranger99]

You could use a tub of water with frozen bottles, put the Carboy in there and swap out the ice bottles twice a day.

^ This.

Works wonders, I use a cabinet with this method and was getting 65 degrees daily...

 

[HopSong]

I started out using a large bucket and frozen bottles of water to do adjustments. That seemed to work quite well. But, someone had a nice Kenmore small freezer for sale and I bought it. I had a separate controller to allow it to work at fermenting temps.

Well, I'm not quite such a happy camper. The freezer works well to get temp down.. but there are some pretty big swings in it. I don't think the insulation is worth a cr@p.. or.. maybe I'm just expecting too much???? It seem to have a LOT to do with ambient temps. I have my freezer on the back porch.. out of direct sunlight.. Ambient here.. at this time of year can vary a LOT from early morning to the hot part of the day.

I currently have the freezer set at 68*. When I wake up in the morning, ambient is in the low to mid 50's and during the day it can range from the high 70's, lately, to the low 100's.. last week. Right now, the freezer is reading 62* and during the day it will get up to about 70*. I decided to turn the freezer off and see what happens. Well, it got down to 62* in the morning and went up yesterday afternoon to 74* I'm thinking the insulation sucks. It's an older freezer. I don't know if the newer ones are better insulated or not.

It almost seems that I may have to get a dual controller of some sort to connect to a heat belt.. but not sure what I'm going to do yet..

Suggestions????

 

[beerguy2009]

Honestly you are not going to hurt the beer being a little on the warm side at most you could get some esters from the yeast which could actually help the flavor of your beer depending on what your doing. If you can stay below 75 degrees that should be plenty cool enough to avoid any undesirable issues! Also - under pitching your yeast can be as bad as high ferm temps. it can lead to more mutations in the cell division process because it requires more yeast to be created to eat all the sugars.

more info:

Estery/Fruity
Tastes/Smells Like:
Fruit, especially banana, to a lesser extent, pear, strawberry, raspberry, grapefruit
Possible Causes:
Esters are a naturally occurring byproduct of fermentation. Certain ales are supposed
to have these fruity flavors, such as Belgian ales and Hefeweizens (German Wheat
beer) and certain types of yeast produce more esters than others. Strong fruity flavors
or fruity flavors that are inappropriate for the style of beer are sometimes a result of
under pitching or high fermentation temperatures. As a general rule, the higher the
fermentation temperature, the more esters the yeast will produce. In addition to high
fermentation temperatures, low oxygen levels can also help increase the production
of esters.

I am not worried about pitching too little yeast as I have a starter on a stir plate prepared for the wort.
So not getting the wort down to 65 inicially won't hurt it too much? I may have to set up a water bath I guess to get the temp to stay down. Would that be worth it having a starter?

 

[adamjackson]

^ This.

Works wonders, I use a cabinet with this method and was getting 65 degrees daily...

I'm just laughing at him having to lug a carboy out of his but every day to take a shower and then putting it back in. Talk about bonding with your beer.

----

Honestly, under 70, it's not terrible but right on the off flavors from the high temp. Ideally 60-65.

 

[3sheetsEMJ]

I currently have the freezer set at 68*. When I wake up in the morning, ambient is in the low to mid 50's and during the day it can range from the high 70's, lately, to the low 100's.. last week. Right now, the freezer is reading 62* and during the day it will get up to about 70*. I decided to turn the freezer off and see what happens. Well, it got down to 62* in the morning and went up yesterday afternoon to 74* I'm thinking the insulation sucks. It's an older freezer. I don't know if the newer ones are better insulated or not.

Suggestions????

Careful with the wide temperature swings. Temperature flucuations can cause offflavors just as much as the temp being slightly too high, maybe even moreso. Yeast work the best when temp is constant. Honestly thats one of the best things about swamp coolers. Water takes longer to change temp than air, and is a better medium for heat transfer.

Im thinking that the issue with your refrigerator has to do with the thermistor(controls when the pump turns on and off to control the temp) If this is old, or out of whack, you may need to replace it with one that is more sensitive and works in a narrower band. Your freezer may not be able to maintain a steady temp between 63-68 degrees, if thats the case you may need to update your equipment or use a swamp cooler.

 

[Wynne-R]

HbgBill

I honestly don’t think those temperature swings are going to do much to your beer. 62ºF is only 6Fº below your target. I’m not sure the beer would cool by a measurable amount, certainly less than a degree.

I had a buddy who said he knew a guy in Alaska that made money selling refrigerators to Eskimos. They bypassed the door switch to keep the light on constantly. This would prevent the milk etc. from freezing.

If you’re really worried about it, try putting a light in your freezer. You could try different wattage bulbs until you get it just right, where the temp is maintained without running the compressor very much.

 

[3sheetsEMJ]

http://www.winning-homebrew.com/temperature-control.html

Good link for anyone wanting to read up on temp control andhow it affects fermentation...

 

[tre9er]

Bring the freezer inside. I'd hate to rely on the elements to stay relatively stable. My ferm fridge is in the basement, which doesn't change temps much being below ground. I need no heat down there, just occasional cooling. Even in winter it's in the 60's. I'm sure space is the issue, but that'd be my bet.

The light bulb is a good idea too. Get an STC-1000 and have dual-stage control.

 

[beerguy2009]

Well I brewed my beer and was able to get the wort down to 75 degrees. I went ahead and pitched the yeast that I had made in a starter. I then put the carboy into a tub of water and added water, wrapped a wet towel around the carboy and have a fan blowing on it. This morning it was reading 64 degrees on the fermenter so it seems to be working
Thanks for all the advise. I am real interested to see how this beer turns out now that I can keep the temp down on the fermenter. Guess I will know in a month.

 

[tre9er]

Well I brewed my beer and was able to get the wort down to 75 degrees. I went ahead and pitched the yeast that I had made in a starter. I then put the carboy into a tub of water and added water, wrapped a wet towel around the carboy and have a fan blowing on it. This morning it was reading 64 degrees on the fermenter so it seems to be working
Thanks for all the advise. I am real interested to see how this beer turns out now that I can keep the temp down on the fermenter. Guess I will know in a month.

When you see the krausen fall out, take the t-shirt off, turn the fan off, and let it gradually raise up 5 degrees or so. It will clean up and finish out nicely this way. Then cold-crash it for 2-3 days at fridge temps, then keg/bottle.

 

[3sheetsEMJ]

When you see the krausen fall out, take the t-shirt off, turn the fan off, and let it gradually raise up 5 degrees or so. It will clean up and finish out nicely this way. Then cold-crash it for 2-3 days at fridge temps, then keg/bottle.

How many days overall for each step? Say you are using American 1056. I ferment primary for at least 2-3wks, cold crash for a couple days , then keg. Im brewing a pale ale this weekend and am trying to dial in the best fermetation schedule. I was thinking ferment in primary for 2.5 weeks, using the swamp cooler for the first 6-8 days, after that let it return to ambient, cold crash after this for about 3 days, then keg. Would this work?

 

[tre9er]

How many days overall for each step? Say you are using American 1056. I ferment primary for at least 2-3wks, cold crash for a couple days , then keg. Im brewing a pale ale this weekend and am trying to dial in the best fermetation schedule. I was thinking ferment in primary for 2.5 weeks, using the swamp cooler for the first 6-8 days, after that let it return to ambient, cold crash after this for about 3 days, then keg. Would this work?

You just want to temp control carefully during the initial heavy fermentation. After it settles down, take a gravity reading. If it's getting darn-close to FG, let it warm up, but not too hot. Then just a few days there should clean it up nicely. For most mid-gravity simple grain-bill ales I'd say 7 days (3-4 days initial ferm, 3-4 days warmed) then cold-crash, so long as you did everything right up to that point. Taste and gravity will tell you if you're ready.

 

[beerguy2009]

When you see the krausen fall out, take the t-shirt off, turn the fan off, and let it gradually raise up 5 degrees or so. It will clean up and finish out nicely this way. Then cold-crash it for 2-3 days at fridge temps, then keg/bottle.

I was wondering how long to keep it covered with the wet towel, so thanks. I think if I can get fermentation temps under control it would really help my beer. I would really like a fermentation chamber but just haven't gotten to it yet. The swamp cooler method sounds like it will work for now though.
I usually go a couple weeks in the primary so it should clean up well it sounds.

 

[HopSong]

Looks like I'll just be going back to the old standby.. the beverage tub with water and an occasional frozen water bottle.

I'm not sure how much I'd accomplish by bringing the freezer inside.. I get pretty wide fluctuations inside as well.. but, certainly not as much as outside. I was just impressed (?) by how much the inside of the box changes during the day... unplugged. When I get up in the morning.. it's 60*.. a couple degrees below what I have it set at. But in the afternoon it gets up to about 74*. I can control the high side with the refrigeration.. but the low side.. arggh.

I have a simple Penn (Johnson) analog controller. As mentioned earlier.. I'll have to explore a dual side control.. one that will heat and cool as needed. Not expecting a +/- 2* But I'd like to control it a bit better. My other thought is a large tub in the chest. I tried putting the beverage tub in there.. but, it's too large in diameter. Possibly one of the storage totes with the flip lids will fit.. I'll measure and check that out. That should add about an extra 3-4 gallons around the carboy.

Come to think of it, I'll need to consider what to do in the winter. Last winter I just let things ride in the spare bathroom.. but, we turn the heat off at night.. so, the house get's down into the mid 50's. During the day, we have the t'stat set at about 67*

 

[brycelarson]

Well, I'm not quite such a happy camper. The freezer works well to get temp down.. but there are some pretty big swings in it.

Suggestions????

What are you getting those temp readings with? Liquids are quite good at holding temp. If you're measuring surface temp on a fermenter it'll swing a lot - while the actual liquid inside may not be.

I would suggest putting a pitcher of water in the freezer and suspending a thermometer in the middle of the water. See how much that swings - and you'll know more about how your beer is swinging.

I tracked a loose thermometer in my freezer versus one in water and it was amazing how much difference there was. The loose one would swing from 30-50+ while the one in the water was quite stable - right where I had the temp set - at 40.

 

[HopSong]

Per my earlier post.. yes, the temp probe is suspended in a glass of water.. certainly not a pitcher.. none the less.. not in air.

 

[brycelarson]

Per my earlier post.. yes, the temp probe is suspended in a glass of water.. certainly not a pitcher.. none the less.. not in air.

hmm, not great control then. What controller are you using?

 

[3sheetsEMJ]

What are you getting those temp readings with? Liquids are quite good at holding temp. If you're measuring surface temp on a fermenter it'll swing a lot - while the actual liquid inside may not be.

I would suggest putting a pitcher of water in the freezer and suspending a thermometer in the middle of the water. See how much that swings - and you'll know more about how your beer is swinging.

I tracked a loose thermometer in my freezer versus one in water and it was amazing how much difference there was. The loose one would swing from 30-50+ while the one in the water was quite stable - right where I had the temp set - at 40.

I understand the logic of this technique since the liquid will change far less quicky than the air, but the yeast are generating heat inside the beer, so wont the water in the pitcher/ glass be much cooler than the beer, at least for the first few days?

 

[brycelarson]

I understand the logic of this technique since the liquid will change far less quicky than the air, but the yeast are generating heat inside the beer, so wont the water in the pitcher/ glass be much cooler than the beer, at least for the first few days?

Yes, but from what I've measured only a few degrees not a drastic amount.

The technique is really just a more accurate way of finding out what your freezer is doing. If you're concerned about the exothermic yeasties heating things up you can always adjust your freezer a few degrees below your target ferm temo for the first few days.

 

[HopSong]

Short of having a probe IN the wort.. I think controlling the outside temp by submersion is about as good as it gets for the homebrewer. Water sucks heat pretty well.. as compared to air. Also, provides more of a stable environment than air due to the mass. That's my understanding. Yes, fermentation generates heat. So, as fermentation heats up, the surrounding environment would have to be colder and as it slows, not as much heat is generated.. hence a "warmer" temp requirement. I'm not that anal about the temp.. but, I do want something better/closer than I have.. I may yet go to a stopper with two holes.. one for the ferm lock and one for the temp probe. Should be relatively easy to build. I'm guessing there must be something like a SS brake line with a flared end that will help me fit that bill. Just has to have a large enough ID to accept the probe.

 

[brycelarson]

http://morebeer.com/view_product/16672/102282/Stopper_Thermowell

or make your own.