I suppose I could if I can't figure out a way to get a good crush from my LHBS store, but crushing 12 pounds of grain by hand sounds awful. I still feel like it can't just be the crush, I have to have some part of my process I'm doing wrong.
Feeling ready to give up on BIAB.
- Thread starter vance
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk:
I know it's been mentioned.....but missing your gravity numbers shouldn't make a bad tasting beer....that's something else entirely.
If it was just missing your numbers, you could just up the grain bill a bit and be done with it.
Also...you should be able to hold your temps better. Are you wrapping your kettle with blankets/coats/towels?
If it was just missing your numbers, you could just up the grain bill a bit and be done with it.
Also...you should be able to hold your temps better. Are you wrapping your kettle with blankets/coats/towels?
bucfan1234
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2015
- Messages
- 181
- Reaction score
- 37
As others have suggested, if you were aiming for 6 gallons post boil and you wound up with 7 gallons post boil, it is your volumes.
The other likely possibility based on the temps is incomplete conversion. Combine that with the volume issue and it seems like a double whammy.
The other likely possibility based on the temps is incomplete conversion. Combine that with the volume issue and it seems like a double whammy.
Redlantern
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2015
- Messages
- 856
- Reaction score
- 261
one simple check if you have the numbers - check your gravity units.
gravity units = (Specific Gravity -1.000) * 1000
Say you were supposed to have an FG of 1.050 for 5 gallons, that is (1.050-1.000) x 1000 =50 GU/Gal, multiplied by number of gallons (5) = 250 gravity units
If you wound up with an FG of 1.040, but finished with 7 gallons, then (1.040-1.000) x 1000 = 40 GU/Gal, multiplied by number of gallons (7) = 280 gravity units, you would have actually done really well. Extract was fantastic.
In that case, the volumes were off.
Sometimes a different angle on the problem can help out.
gravity units = (Specific Gravity -1.000) * 1000
Say you were supposed to have an FG of 1.050 for 5 gallons, that is (1.050-1.000) x 1000 =50 GU/Gal, multiplied by number of gallons (5) = 250 gravity units
If you wound up with an FG of 1.040, but finished with 7 gallons, then (1.040-1.000) x 1000 = 40 GU/Gal, multiplied by number of gallons (7) = 280 gravity units, you would have actually done really well. Extract was fantastic.
In that case, the volumes were off.
Sometimes a different angle on the problem can help out.
7 gallons was what I wanted post boil. I went for 1 gallon each of kettle and fermenter loss, partly because I was brewing a NE IPA with lots of hop matter and partly because I've only been getting about 4.5 gallons into my keg, lately. I know I can up the grain bill, but I'd rather figure out why I'm only getting 60% efficiency and not hitting a predictable OG. Only guess I have for my off flavors is fermentstion temp, which I'm hoping this Hothead yeast takes care of.
I wrap my kettle in an old comforter. I usually only drop about 2 degrees over a 60 minute mash, if that, but it was in the low 20s when I brewed on Sunday - I started brewing in July so all my precious batches it had been in the 60s or higher.
I wrap my kettle in an old comforter. I usually only drop about 2 degrees over a 60 minute mash, if that, but it was in the low 20s when I brewed on Sunday - I started brewing in July so all my precious batches it had been in the 60s or higher.
![Craft A Brew - Safale S-04 Dry Yeast - Fermentis - English Ale Dry Yeast - For English and American Ales and Hard Apple Ciders - Ingredients for Home Brewing - Beer Making Supplies - [1 Pack]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41fVGNh6JfL._SL500_.jpg)
The Mill in a Bucket idea goes to Mike of Wilser Bags. He has a whole thread on the subject, you can find it here
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=1308996&postcount=144
You don't have to crush by hand, look at my post two or three above with the mill in the bucket.
FruityHops
Well-Known Member
What mash thickness are you using? I've found that if I do a full volume mash, especially with a low gravity beer, I get horrible efficiency. If you keep your mash thickness within 1.25 - 1.5 qt/lb then you should be able to get at least 60% efficiency even with a single crush.
After the mash measure your volume and gravity and make a plan from there. If your pre-boil gravity is too low you could add/sparge with less water if you didn't do full volume mash, you could boil longer and harder, or you could add some malt extract.
I've found a full volume mash gets worse efficiency and leaves me with less options for correction after the mash.
After the mash measure your volume and gravity and make a plan from there. If your pre-boil gravity is too low you could add/sparge with less water if you didn't do full volume mash, you could boil longer and harder, or you could add some malt extract.
I've found a full volume mash gets worse efficiency and leaves me with less options for correction after the mash.
Last edited:
Morrey
Well-Known Member
What is an example of the efficiency numbers you are getting from full vol mashes that is horrible?
FruityHops
Well-Known Member
Like 45%-50%
chickypad
lupulin shift victim
And you expected 7 gals of 1.053 wort? Looks like that would be about 86% efficiency. You said you got a little over 7 gals of 1.040, so around 65%. With a LHBS crush that doesn't sound too bad. You can't up your batch volume to account for losses and then not up your grainbill. If you're set on using the LHBS crush then I'd say throw in the extra couple bucks for a few more lbs of grain and set your recipe for 65% efficiency.
I do 5-gallon BIAB batches and most of my beers are 1.045-1.060 OG - usually between 9-12 pounds of grain. I get my grain from NB or AIH pre-crushed or from my LHBS. I start with 6 gallons of water in my kettle. I always add PH stabilizer and do an iodine test after 60 minutes. If it passes, I then squeeze the bag after the mash. After squeezing, I pour 170-degree water over the bag which I rest in a steel crate over my kettle until I get 6 gallons of pre-boil wort. Seems to work pretty well for me.
Eh, I'd be happy with a predictable 70% efficiency, if I wanted to mess around with sparging I wouldn't be doing BIAB. I tried a sparge once and trying to heat up a few gallons on my stove while also worrying about my mash was too much to deal with.
In this instance though, with full volume mash, I used 12 pounds of grain and 9.27 gallons as calculated through priceless BIAB, so my thickness was 3.08 qts/lb
In this instance though, with full volume mash, I used 12 pounds of grain and 9.27 gallons as calculated through priceless BIAB, so my thickness was 3.08 qts/lb
It was actually for 6.25 - I screwed up between Beersmith and priceless' BIAB calc. I think beersmith was still set for 5.75 batch size and .5 kettle loss. That accounts for some of my efficiency, but not all of it. I really think I can do better than 65%, without crushing my own grain, and buying extra instead of improving my process just feels like a bandaid.
Yep, give it a good stir and a quick temperature check every 10-15 minutes.
chickypad
lupulin shift victim
While trying to dial this in if I were you I'd set your kettle losses in BS to zero and try to aim for a consistent mash efficiency, forgetting about brewhouse efficiency for now. That is a hard number to chase as losses can vary so much depending on hops, etc.
Targeting crush is not a bandaid, it is the first step in troubleshooting efficiency as almost everyone will tell you. If you eliminate that from the equation you're only going to get so far. You might pick up a bit with a better squeeze - right now looks like you're hitting about .1 gal per lb absoprtion so you could get that down to .07-.08.
Murphys_Law
Well-Known Member
Try holding a gallon back and gently pour over the grain bag.
I fill my kettle with full volume and start heating the strike water. When my water is around 120 or so I drain a gallon into my pitcher and sit it aside for my "spare". I really don't give much thought to the temp of this gallon.
So set kettle losses to zero and just dump my entire kettle into the fermenter? How does that eliminate brewhouse efficiency?
And no, I didn't mean targeting crush is a bandaid - I was referring to buying more grain to compensate for poor efficiency instead of fixing whatever is causing the poor efficiency in the first place.
Redlantern
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2015
- Messages
- 856
- Reaction score
- 261
just got my Monster Mill 3-roller. Efficiency went way up
McKnuckle
Well-Known Member
Brewhouse efficiency takes both failure to collect all potential sugars AND all volume losses into account. It's less useful because each brewer can save or discard volume at different points according to his/her whim, yet doing so (or not) has no effect on gravity or quality.
Not sure if this has been addressed, but your volumes seem way off. I start with 7.5 gals, don't sparge at all, and end up with around 6 in my fermenter. Everything I brew is loaded with hops, so I end up with perfectly 5 gallons into keg. I'd look into that more
Not sure what to change on my volumes. I'll throw up another post here next time I brew, but it looked like this:
Started with 9.27 gallons of strike water, per priceless' BIAB calc. After my mash, I had about 8-8.25 gallons. Boiled for an hour, down to 7 gallon, and put 6 gallons into my fermenter.
Started with 9.27 gallons of strike water, per priceless' BIAB calc. After my mash, I had about 8-8.25 gallons. Boiled for an hour, down to 7 gallon, and put 6 gallons into my fermenter.
If you're down to 7 after the boil why are you only putting 6 into the fermentor? Lots of sugar probably being left in the kettle. I'd start with a gallon less to offset that and dump everything into the fermentor.
Isn't that what people normally do? I guess the idea was to let some of my hop and grain matter settle out, since it was heavy on the hops, but even after chilling and waiting a while I couldn't get much to settle. It shouldn't matter though, no? It's all the same gravity (or should be).
chickypad
lupulin shift victim
Yes. Or keep the trub back if you want, but for the purposes of BS calculations don't call it kettle losses (just consider it part of fermenter losses). In BS you can't set your mash efficiency, you can only set the brewhouse, which for many people changes batch to batch. If you set your batch size to the the post boil kettle volume you want, and your kettle losses to zero, then the "brewhouse efficiency" in BS will equal the mash efficiency, which is the number you should aim to hit consistently.
Looks like you have a lot more losses then most people. That's fine if you want to do it that way, but you need to account for it in your recipe - i.e. plan a batch size for 7 gals.
chickypad
lupulin shift victim
It matters if you're not accounting for it in your batch size. All that volume you're losing isn't water, it's wort with sugars. If you plan your recipe for 6 gals but are actually making 7 gals your efficiency is going to look much lower than it really is.
I probably won't do it like that in the future - I purposely overcompensated this batch. .5 kettle loss and .75 fermenter loss is probably good enough. I still don't entirely get what you mean though - doesn't brewhouse efficiency include other things, like boil off losses?
Actually, I think I'm seeing what you mean... mash efficiency is the part we really want to control, yeah? Brewhouse efficiency is more about volumes? I'll try that next time and see what I get. I'm really tempted to brew tomorrow, despite how miserable the weather was on Sunday, but I don't have anything to make a starter out of that fast and yeast health is something I need to get on top of fixing as well...
