Feedback on English Dark Mild Recipe?

[rhys333]

I too was worried about the #3 invert I made a month ago turning into a block of sugar. I made 4 pounds and put it into mason jars and put them in the fridge. Today for the mild I am brewing I pulled out a one pound jar and set in in a pot of very hot water and it has turned back into a syrup. It has been a crappy brew day so far but that seems to be the one thing that hasn't gone wrong (knock on wood).

Mine looked like it was going to be really thick, so I boiled a half cup of water in the pot I made it in (to clean it out), then used it to thin the syrup. It seems to have done the trick.

I'm experimenting again today with some turbinado sugar and baking soda, and if I have time maybe another batch using a block of weird Chinese sugar that I found for cheap.

Hopefully your brew day improves. Shows us your beer when it's done!

 

[kmarkstevens]

And since we are sharing, here is my keg-cask beer engine setup (with a pint of my Batham's Bitter clone):

View attachment 712349

Can you share details on this beer engine corny keg set up? Looks like something I could totally get into...

 

[kmarkstevens]

Simpson's Golden Promise 42%
Vienna 32%
Crystal 40L 9%
Brown malt 5%
Crystal 120L 4%
Special Roast 4%
Chocolate Wheat 4%

Willemette 17 IBUs at 60 min
Willemette 4 IBUs at 20 min

LalBrew New England dry yeast

OG 1.038
FG 1.010
ABV 3.9%

View attachment 711202

Is this with a corny or a cask? I'd love to know details on how to set up this kind of basic beer engine.

 

[SteveH aka shetc]

Is this with a corny or a cask? I'd love to know details on how to set up this kind of basic beer engine.

It's nothing fancy. The "engine" is an RV pump with an actual beer engine sparkler as the nozzle. It is hooked up to a corny keg in which I cask conditioned the beer. I don't belong to CAMRA so I have a CO2 tank set at a very low level to prevent oxidation.

 

[Witherby]

Can you share details on this beer engine corny keg set up? Looks like something I could totally get into...

The basic setup is the Valterra Rocket RV hand pump that @Schlenkerla first posted about 10 years ago (there have been multiple articles in BYO and Zymurgy that all point back to there). And then people add a low pressure propane regulator as a cheap cask breather. I cask condition in a corny (and use a spunding valve along the way to get the right pressure) and you just need a barbed line out to connect to the pump. Super simple.

I was going to build a fancy cabinet but in the process I started with a little box with some nailed together 1x8 (I think) boards and I set it on top of the keg and realized that I didn't need a cabinet. I had accidentally built it so that it perfectly fits on top the handles of a corny keg. Then I added a drip tray (positioned so that the gas in can fit underneath) and Bob's your uncle.

The next step is to add some nylon straps with a plastic snap/buckle attachment (for quick removal) to make it a little more secure. And I would like to add a proper handle like @shetc has and I think it will need to be more secure once I do that.

I'm also not a CAMRA purist (unless you are having a party, who is going to drink 5 gallons in 3 or 4 days?) so I don't feel guilty about adjusting the carbonation with the CO2 tank.

I also have a gravity cask for my "real lager" (mostly Franconian Kellerbiers) which ideally also should be drunk quickly once vented and tapped, but now that I have the cask breather I am going to have to try it on my next Kellerbier and I need to try it for some English styles to see whether I prefer the gravity pour or the beer engine (with and without sparkler). So much research to do in 2021.

 

[Witherby]

Hopefully your brew day improves. Shows us your beer when it's done!

Ron Pattinson is always talking about "watery mild" and I think that is what I brewed since the hose into my immersion chiller was dripping water into the kettle. So unfortunately my brew day didn't get any better!

But, thanks to a healthy starter of Wyeast 1469, the beer is fermenting away nicely at 63F and smells lovely. Almost ready to clean off that first head of dirty yeast so I can top crop in the next day or two.

 

[rhys333]

Ron Pattinson is always talking about "watery mild" and I think that is what I brewed since the hose into my immersion chiller was dripping water into the kettle. So unfortunately my brew day didn't get any better!

But, thanks to a healthy starter of Wyeast 1469, the beer is fermenting away nicely at 63F and smells lovely. Almost ready to clean off that first head of dirty yeast so I can top crop in the next day or two.

View attachment 712786

How much water got in there?

I see you're using the same Anvil Brew Bucket that I'm using. Any issues with 1469 needing a blow-off? Also, how do you like that seal under the lid? I find that its finicky to remove and I worry that it'll break easily. Overall, I do like the function and simplicity of the design, but it seems underbuilt.

Making my 3rd batch of #3 invert today using the Chinese block cane sugar. I have some interesting results from the first two batches where I played with baking soda and pH. I posted my results in another thread on that specific topic: Homemade Invert Sugar pH

 

[Witherby]

How much water got in there?

I see you're using the same Anvil Brew Bucket that I'm using. Any issues with 1469 needing a blow-off? Also, how do you like that seal under the lid? I find that its finicky to remove and I worry that it'll break easily. Overall, I do like the function and simplicity of the design, but it seems underbuilt.

I don't think that much water got in there, but I was working in the dark at that point so I'm not sure. I was aiming for 1.035 and got 1.032 and the amount into the fermenter was the 5.5 gallons I was aiming for.

This is my first ferment in the new Anvil Brew Bucket. I brew in an Anvil Foundry (which I love) and overall I am pleased with it. Top cropping is easier than in my Speidel.

I have never needed a blowoff tube in over 10 years of brewing. I almost always use a loose lid/open fermentation for the first few days (especially when brewing an English ale). So I have the brew bucket lid just sitting there without clamping the clamps. The silicone ring seems better than the one on the Foundry which fell off after one brew and I have never put it back in.

 

[kmarkstevens]

The basic setup is the Valterra Rocket RV hand pump that @Schlenkerla first posted about 10 years ago (there have been multiple articles in BYO and Zymurgy that all point back to there). And then people add a low pressure propane regulator as a cheap cask breather. I cask condition in a corny (and use a spunding valve along the way to get the right pressure) and you just need a barbed line out to connect to the pump. Super simple.

Wow, really appreciate the time you put into this post Witherby. It's really what I was kinda looking for. Wish I knew about this before the xmas break but instead will have to make it a new years resolution.

@Schlenderla - you wouldn't happen to have a link to the original thread would you?

 

[ba-brewer]

Have not seen @Schlenkerla about these parts in a while but I think this the correct thread.
Fellow homebrewers, meet my new beer engine . . .

 

[rhys333]

I think I hit pay dirt. Found this piloncillo evaporated cane juice at the local Mexican grocery, and they had about 5 other varieties too. Probably going to make another batch of #3 with it tonight.

 

[rhys333]

I think I hit pay dirt. Found this piloncillo evaporated cane juice at the local Mexican grocery, and they had about 5 other varieties too. Probably going to make another batch of #3 with it tonight.

As i start the boil, I can tell this definitely unrefined sugar. It looks and smells different to the turbinado and table sugar versions. The aroma is of dark, rich honey.

Some impurities in the bottom including fibers and a small amount of grit. I decided not to strain it off. Also there's scum forming on top, which I could skim, but I think I'll just leave it and see what happens.

 

[rhys333]

These samples were both cooked for 180 minutes. On the left is my earlier attempt using the Chinese block sugar, which the manufacturer subsequently confirmed is just refined sugar with molasses added. On the right is the piloncillo (panela) I made yesterday. Such a difference both in flavor and appearance.

 

[Witherby]

I transferred my mild into my cask yesterday. It was going to be a pale mild, or rather, I wasn’t aiming for a color—I just wanted to see what color it would end up with a pound of my #3 invert. Turns out, not very much color at all. Here’s the bottom of my fermentor:

So I added 20 ml of Brupaks brewers caramel to the priming sugar and we’ll see the final color in a week or two. After watching All Creatures Great and Small with them drinking pint after pint of dark mild down at the pub, I decided I did want it to be dark after all.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

After watching All Creatures Great and Small with them drinking pint after pint of dark mild down at the pub, I decided I did want it to be dark after all.

Although since the TV series is set in Grassington, they probably would have been drinking Pennine mild.... (whereas "Herriot" actually practised the other side of the A1 in Thirsk)

 

[ba-brewer]

I googled "Pennine Mild" and found this page, if the list is current there seems to still be a few milds being served in places. Some in the list have good descriptions.
Mild Trail Beers Updates - Southport & West Lancs CAMRA

 

[kmarkstevens]

@rhys333 I'm going to have to try this with different sugars. The mexican supermarket is a great idea. I did pick up a pound of #3 from Beckers Invert Sugars to use as a benchmark. Stuff is surprisingly dark. I wonder what invert #4 is like?

I also have coconut palm sugar.

 

[rhys333]

@rhys333 I'm going to have to try this with different sugars. The mexican supermarket is a great idea. I did pick up a pound of #3 from Beckers Invert Sugars to use as a benchmark. Stuff is surprisingly dark. I wonder what invert #4 is like?

I also have coconut palm sugar.

Nice. I wish I could get my hands on some of that Becker's invert to compare. At least I know now that I'm on the right track colourwise with my last batch.

That piloncillo is the real deal, and cost me about 3/4 the price of Sugar in the Raw for more than twice as much. I'm skeptical about that stuff anyway, TBH. I'm not convinced that it's any better than refined light brown sugar.

 

[bierhaus15]

Watch out when using piloncillo and jaggery as they are produced by reducing the sugarcane juice in cast iron pans. The amount of iron in the sugar is relatively high and can contribute metallic flavors in the final beer.

I dumped a 12 gal batch of my favorite porter recipe last year as I decided to replace the No 2 invert with piloncillo. Resulting beer tasted like nails.

 

[rhys333]

Watch out when using piloncillo and jaggery as they are produced by reducing the sugarcane juice in cast iron pans. The amount of iron in the sugar is relatively high and can contribute metallic flavors in the final beer.

I dumped a 12 gal batch of my favorite porter recipe last year as I decided to replace the No 2 invert with piloncillo. Resulting beer tasted like nails.

Well, that's not good. Which brand of piloncillo were you using? I don't pick up a metallic taste in the syrup I made.

 

[Witherby]

Although since the TV series is set in Grassington, they probably would have been drinking Pennine mild.... (whereas "Herriot" actually practised the other side of the A1 in Thirsk)

Ron Pattinson in his Vintage Beer book says that mild (which in the 19th century was always pale) "continued to darken throughout the interwar period, and most examples were either dark amber or brown in color. In some regions, for example the northwest of England, breweries had an ordinary mild that was dark and a best mild that was pale."

I see that Timothy Taylor says that Golden Best is the "last of the true Pennine light milds."

So is Pennine mild basically pale best mild? Or is there something more than that?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

In some regions, for example the northwest of England, breweries had an ordinary mild that was dark and a best mild that was pale."

I see that Timothy Taylor says that Golden Best is the "last of the true Pennine light milds."

So is Pennine mild basically pale best mild? Or is there something more than that?

It wasn't always true that the best mild was pale and the ordinary one was dark - Lees is an example of a brewery that had them "the wrong way round".

The concept of Pennine mild is in contrast to what people expect of mild which is that for the last century or so it's been dark, regardless of whether it's a best mild or not.

 

[rhys333]

I'm originally from a border town in Yorkshire where historically the Lancashire-Yorkshire line ran right through the middle of the town hall. The town's history is tied culturally to Lancashire, perhaps because of its strong industrial link to the cotton industry. Yorkshire was wool production.

Anyway, my hometown is situated in the Pennines and for generations the people there have been drinking dark mild. Lancashire mild, I suppose. My dad happened to tell me the other day that some years ago he visited a friend just a few miles further into Yorkshire. They visited the local pub and he asked the landlady for a dark mild. She stared at him for a moment before replying bluntly "this is Yorkshire, luv".

 

[Beermeister32]

Timothy Taylor uses Savinjski Goldings. The clone recipes of Landlord I've found call for EKG and lots of Styrian (!)

A few years ago when Northern Brewer was running their multi kit specials I ordered their Innkeeper/Landlord clone kit. I was very impressed and went down to Bevmo and bought some real Landlord to compare. It really was spot on, used the Styrian Goldings.

I can't seem to find Landlord in California anywhere this year, (none at Total Wine or anywhere) - anyone know if this is a Covid slowdown or lack of distributorship, etc? I may need to brew another batch!

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I imagine Covid has a bit to do with it, also the problems at this end due to the impact of Brexit on trade facilities - when we're desperately short of customs agents etc who know how third-party trade works, a few cases of beer for California are probably fairly low down the list of priorities.

 

[Beermeister32]

That can be a lot of beer for the US, Samuel Smith has a large amount at Bevmo and Total Wine. No Timothy Taylor though. Bummer.

 

[tracer bullet]

Innkeeper/Landlord clone kit.

Interesting. I was looking around NB's site last night for inspiration for my next brew and read about that one. The recipe seemed so basic, and w/ golden promise and dark crystal it sounded really sweet. I figured it couldn't truly be very good. I'll have to rethink it...

 

[Witherby]

Interesting. I was looking around NB's site last night for inspiration for my next brew and read about that one. The recipe seemed so basic, and w/ golden promise and dark crystal it sounded really sweet. I figured it couldn't truly be very good. I'll have to rethink it...

Gordon Strong's Landlord clone recipe is very simple and very good:
Timothy Taylor Brewery: Landlord clone - Brew Your Own

I brewed that earlier this year and it was amazing. I dry hopped it with 1 ounce of Styrian Goldings, which isn't in the recipe, but really adds a lot. I kicked that keg very quickly. If it weren't for the fact that I picked up a sack of Crisp Maris Otter for $20 that I am trying to use up, that is what I would be brewing next.

 

[kmarkstevens]

Witherby, what yeast did you use for the Timothy Taylor Landlord?

I don't mean to pick nits, but Gordon's reconmnendation of Wyeast 1469 (West Yorkshire Ale) or White Labs WLP037 (Yorkshire Square Ale) or Lallemand Windsor Ale yeast has me scratching my head. These 3 yeasts produce wildly different tastes. In my humble opinion, W Yorkie is pretty nice but I am so not a fan of Yorkie Squares or Windsor.

 

[Witherby]

Witherby, what yeast did you use for the Timothy Taylor Landlord?

I don't mean to pick nits, but Gordon's reconmnendation of Wyeast 1469 (West Yorkshire Ale) or White Labs WLP037 (Yorkshire Square Ale) or Lallemand Windsor Ale yeast has me scratching my head. These 3 yeasts produce wildly different tastes. In my humble opinion, W Yorkie is pretty nice but I am so not a fan of Yorkie Squares or Windsor.

That link is to an earlier version of his recipe that might be from when 1469 wasn’t available year round, which it now is. In his book Modern Homebrew Recipes and in the September 2017 BYO style profile on Best Bitter ( where I first saw this recipe) he specifies 1469.