Fast Ferment Continuous Brew project

[Owly055]

I just purchased a Fast Ferment conical with the intent of setting up a continuous brew project. My mash and boil capacity maxes out at about 3 gallons, and I don't intend to go bigger. The plan is after I build my stand to begin by doing two 3 gallon brews about a day or two apart, to fill the fermenter. After that, I will let it ferment about a week, and do another brew, drawing off 3 gallons into a secondary fermenter, and so on. The fermenter will be dedicated to pale ale, and each brew will be a single hop brew, but they will blend in the fermenter with both the hop profile and the malt profile gradually changing, kind of like my friend of many years ago who kept a pot of chili in the slow cooker for years, just adding various things. There will be no "recipes". The yeast will be constantly active, and I might blend yeasts, but I'm not sure what the result of that would be....... I'd hate to throw in a Belgian or a Saison and discover that it dominated the flavor profile completely, but obviously it will have to be cleaned, sanitized, and restarted periodically anyway.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

H.W.

 

[Sadu]

Subscribed. Cool idea, interested to hear how this goes.

 

[jerbrew]

It's a pretty cool idea for a solera. I would suggest starting with a clean ale yeast like US-05 and then adding some Brett. It will be a good way to build character in the beer that could really give you some nice changes over time. It will also act as an oxygen scavenger in case something happens and you don't keep the Saccharomyces active. You'll get oxygen permeation through that conical and it would suck to start tasting it get slowly oxidized.

Or you could like you said just mix yeasts as time goes by. Using that yeast collection thing you could dump the old cake add new wort and pitch another yeast. There will still be some of the older stuff in suspension. But you'd get a nice does of healthy yeast and you could change it up.

Anyways, just some thoughts. Good luck I'll be looking forward to see how it goes. Maybe I can convince you to send me a bottle some time.

 

[Jwin]

O2 would be an issue. You would be introducing a lot of o2 to the finished beer left behind

 

[DaWhip]

I don't think O2 would be an issue. It would get used up when you added the next brew. Probably should be aerating the new brew too.

I was kicking a similar idea around with my FF and 1 gal batches, but never got around to it. If I were doing I think I would skid the secondary. Get it topped off with your first 2 3gal brews, then let that completely finish fermenting, dropping trub as needed (2 weeks?) then brew another 3 gallon batch. Drop yeast, 3 gallons into bottles/keg, then immediately add the new brew to the FF. If you keep the yeast active and remove most of the flocced yeast, I bet you can carry it out for a long time. Subscribed to see how it goes, good luck!

 

[Owly055]

I put my second addition into the Fast Ferment, and it went well, except that the FF is too heavy to handle when full, and I don't have a pump setup worked out yet, so I had to use a smaller stock pot and a short ladder to pour into the FF in several smaller pours due to the size of the opening. The top of the FF is 66" off the floor.

Thus far I like adding wort to a brew that is still active........ it goes right to full bore, no messing with yeast, no cleaning and sanitizing the fermenter......... It just feels right. This is essentially similar to the process distillers use and call "sour mash". One batch innoculates the next.



*********************** BIG MISTAKE *********************

I should have installed a bucket spigot, they do not come with the FF, and there really is no provision for taking samples. I'll use an autosiphon for the time being. The sample spigot should be standard equipment on these.

H.W.

 

[EazyMcBreazy]

3gal at a time, you shouldnt have to rely on O2 unless relying on previous yeast each time. If that's the case consider using a tablespoon of oil (olive, avocado, lard, whatever your choice) dont believe me, look into it as an O2 replacement. Id be more concerned of residual trub and krausen imparting character, primarily bitterness, dry hopping could be detrimental. If it were me, id brew 3x in a day once a month and star fresh. Long day but cleaning is still once, that is unless it's stovetop brewing, dont bother. Im curious as to your pale ale 'character' after a year. Unique is something i seek out. Pouring? Get a spill guard funnel, cut the opening some. Screen will reduce trub. G'luck overall, save up for draft

 

[day_trippr]

3gal at a time, you shouldnt have to rely on O2 unless relying on previous yeast each time. If that's the case consider using a tablespoon of oil (olive, avocado, lard, whatever your choice) dont believe me, look into it as an O2 replacement.[...]

Whoa, nellie! Yes, olive oil appears to have almost magical effects on yeast, but the dosing per a full 5g batch is way, way small - less than a drop...

How Much Olive Oil Should I Use?

"So how much olive oil in beer yeast should I be using? During the trials, New Belgium brewery would pitch 4500 liters of yeast into 168000 liters of beer. Into the 4500 liters of yeast, they would add 300 ml of oil. To scale this down for 5 gallons, we need to use about 0.0000833 ml of oil. For almost everyone, this is impossible to measure. There are 60 drops of olive oil in a teaspoon, and a teaspoon is 5 ml, so a drop is about 0.0833 ml. You would need about 0.001 or 1/1000 of a drop. As you can see, the amounts are miniscule. It was suggested on Northern Brewer's forum that one way to get this small amount would be to dip a toothpick into the olive oil and then transfer this amount over to the wort."

Cheers!

 

[Owly055]

3gal at a time, you shouldnt have to rely on O2 unless relying on previous yeast each time. If that's the case consider using a tablespoon of oil (olive, avocado, lard, whatever your choice) dont believe me, look into it as an O2 replacement. Id be more concerned of residual trub and krausen imparting character, primarily bitterness, dry hopping could be detrimental. If it were me, id brew 3x in a day once a month and star fresh. Long day but cleaning is still once, that is unless it's stovetop brewing, dont bother. Im curious as to your pale ale 'character' after a year. Unique is something i seek out. Pouring? Get a spill guard funnel, cut the opening some. Screen will reduce trub. G'luck overall, save up for draft

The trub will be removed from the bottom of the fermenter every time I rack into secondary. I'll be racking from the bottom. This will mean using the collection ball a couple of times before racking, probably 12-24 hours apart. If you aren't familiar with the collection ball, go to : http://www.fastbrewing.com/products/fastferment

 

[Owly055]

Whoa, nellie! Yes, olive oil appears to have almost magical effects on yeast, but the dosing per a full 5g batch is way, way small - less than a drop...

How Much Olive Oil Should I Use?

"So how much olive oil in beer yeast should I be using? During the trials, New Belgium brewery would pitch 4500 liters of yeast into 168000 liters of beer. Into the 4500 liters of yeast, they would add 300 ml of oil. To scale this down for 5 gallons, we need to use about 0.0000833 ml of oil. For almost everyone, this is impossible to measure. There are 60 drops of olive oil in a teaspoon, and a teaspoon is 5 ml, so a drop is about 0.0833 ml. You would need about 0.001 or 1/1000 of a drop. As you can see, the amounts are miniscule. It was suggested on Northern Brewer's forum that one way to get this small amount would be to dip a toothpick into the olive oil and then transfer this amount over to the wort."

Cheers!

My current method of wort transfer is to pour off into a small sterilized stock pot, and then climb my little short ladder and pour into the top....... This strikes me as a process that oxygenates the wort well enough. In particular, the continuous brew process may make oxygenation less critical.......... I don't know.

One matter that is of some concern is the fact that there is not the initial reproductive phase to produce some of the characteristic flavors. However I still have a pair of fermenters I can use for Belgians and such.

Interestingly, my recent reading shows that unlike wine yeasts, beer yeasts "get along" rather than killing each other off. I'm looking forward to the evolution of yeast character in this project. I may introduce a brett in a secondary and bottle the batches with brett to allow them to age properly.

H.W.

 

[Jwin]

My current method of wort transfer is to pour off into a small sterilized stock pot, and then climb my little short ladder and pour into the top....... This strikes me as a process that oxygenates the wort well enough. In particular, the continuous brew process may make oxygenation less critical.......... I don't know.

One matter that is of some concern is the fact that there is not the initial reproductive phase to produce some of the characteristic flavors. However I still have a pair of fermenters I can use for Belgians and such.

Interestingly, my recent reading shows that unlike wine yeasts, beer yeasts "get along" rather than killing each other off. I'm looking forward to the evolution of yeast character in this project. I may introduce a brett in a secondary and bottle the batches with brett to allow them to age properly.

H.W.

Just be sure to use a very long secondary if you are adding Brett. Mad fermentationist recommends a minimum of 6-9 months.

"In the secondary generally a minimum of 6-9 months is needed to reach a stable*FG, sometimes it takes longer.

Brett primary*fermentations*are relatively quick. Generally a stable*FG*is reached within 2 weeks, fermentation looks normal, and the Brett*flocculates*reasonably well. I have 100% beers that are 18 months old which still have stable carbonation, so it is certainly a faster way to turn out funky beers.

In both cases having consistent*FG*measurements over time is the only way to be certain fermentation is completed. Flavor is also a good general indicator as is appearance (when the*pellicle*drops it is probably safe to bottle)."

 

[Owly055]

Just be sure to use a very long secondary if you are adding Brett. Mad fermentationist recommends a minimum of 6-9 months.

"In the secondary generally a minimum of 6-9 months is needed to reach a stable*FG, sometimes it takes longer.

Brett primary*fermentations*are relatively quick. Generally a stable*FG*is reached within 2 weeks, fermentation looks normal, and the Brett*flocculates*reasonably well. I have 100% beers that are 18 months old which still have stable carbonation, so it is certainly a faster way to turn out funky beers.

In both cases having consistent*FG*measurements over time is the only way to be certain fermentation is completed. Flavor is also a good general indicator as is appearance (when the*pellicle*drops it is probably safe to bottle)."

Thanks for the suggestions.........I'm a little afraid to add it to my primary fermenter along with the other yeast in a continuous brew, but perhaps I'll try it at some point. I don't have any idea which yeasts would dominate if several types were used in primary. I have an idea that a yeast like Belle Saison for example might be pretty dominant..... Only experimentation will reveal the possible results. Considering the fact that each brew will be started with a HUGE starter....... A starter in effect equal to it's own volume, or even greater, I suspect that some of the distinctive character of the various yeast that is developed during the reproductive phase will be very muted. I'm stepping off into terra incognita so to speak.

H.W.