Farmhouse needs your feedback.

[Steelers77]

Hey Guys, Hop you all had a wonderful holiday.

I', trying to get some feedback about a Frequent Buyers Club we are thinking about offering. It would be a paid subscription that would entitle you to a discount on Hops, Grain and Yeast for every order without having to wait for a sale or having to enter a discount code.

We are thinking about offering 2 levels of discount:

$100 Membership
20% off hops
10% off Grain
5% off Yeast

$50 Membership
10% off Hops
5% off Grain
5% off Yeast

This discounts would be available to you all year long. The one rub is you would not be eligible for any further discounts on top of this discount unless the sale offered is more than your current discount. Then your account would be adjusted to reflect the current sales discount.

Example:. If you are eligible for 5% off grain and we have a 10% off grain sale we will adjust you discount during the sale to reflect that 10% discount without having to use a discount code.

We would like any feedback and suggestions and appreciate you taking the time to read this.

Cheers

John

 

[davemattb]

I don't think I brew enough to get back a $100 membership. Maybe if you were my LHBS I might be able to justify it. I don't have a LHBS so I try to buy yeast from closer vendors. Maybe a couple free shipping offers or some swag would sweeten the deal, otherwise I wouldn't be able to justify it.

 

[tjmac5071]

I would be more apt to join if it was always free shipping like Amazon prime without specific discounts, especially for bulk grains. But not sure if you could make that beneficial for you or not.

Otherwise...honestly somebody is always having a sale or I can wait a couple weeks for a preferred vendor to have one

 

[DU99]

no good for me,grain's you can't send overseas,yeast depend's on how it's sent.

 

[FatDragon]

The rates seem pretty high and I don't see the upside. For a homebrewer to benefit from this they need to spend over $500 on hops or $1000 on grains and yeast in a year, and that's assuming they would have bought everything full-price from Farmhouse and no other vendors. That's pretty big math for a homebrewer (we don't like counting much higher than 1.100, after all) - maybe a brew club or a group buy could benefit, but there's a very limited group of people who could really use a membership like this.

That said, I'm just a schmuck brewing under 100 gallons a year in China, so I'm hardly your target audience anyway. As long as you're making beer and/or helping the rest of us to make beer, you're good in my book.

 

[kh54s10]

Adding free shipping or a low flat rate might be the tipping point for me. I don't think I could justify the $100 but maybe the $50. Assuming the discount would also include the 10 pound specials.

PS. I would like to see more 10 pound specials, maybe a special of the week or something. I guess it would be best for most if they were base grains. Though something like an assortment of crystals might be used fairly quickly in my brewing. It could be something like C-10, C-40, C-60 and C-80. A buyer might get 10 and 60 or 40 and 80 to keep on hand for instance. I also use a lot of Brown and Chocolate.

 

[SpottedDogBrewing]

What about points earned by how much you spend and then those points can be used for discounts online for the next purchase.

Something similar to an online Homebrewing store:

The Rewards Program offers a 5% reward for every $200 you spend. Here's how the ONLINE program works:

You earn 1 point for every dollar spent (shipping/tax excluded). So if you make a $79 purchase you will be rewarded with 79 points. If you make a $423 purchase you will be rewarded with 423 points.

When you reach 200 or more reward points, you will be able to redeem those points for a Gift Certificate good toward any product available at our online store.

Redeem 200 points for a $10 Gift Certificate.
Redeem 400 points for a $20 Gift Certificate.
Redeem 600 points for a $30 Gift Certificate.
Redeem 800 points for a $40 Gift Certificate.
Redeem 1000 points for a $50 Gift Certificate.
Redeem 2000 points for a $100 Gift Certificate.
Redeem 5000 points for a $250 Gift Certificate.
Redeem 10000 points for a $500 Gift Certificate.

Gift Certificates do not generate rewards when purchased or used.

 

[passedpawn]

I wouldn't join a buyer's club. I understand that you're trying to build a loyalty program, but it's going to be tough I think. Internet makes window shopping between vendors too easy.

Ed at BrewMasters Warehouse had the Recipe Builder. That was a sweet idea since it allowed people to build a recipe (or find an existing one) and order the whole thing with one click. I guess that was a sort of loyalty program. Gone now - too bad.

Free shipping with large orders would make a difference to me. I just dropped $280 on hops from another vendor. I think shipping was $30-$40 - ouch. BTW, I only buy hops in pounds, so those are prices I look at.

 

[Pappers_]

This would be great for me and I'd use it. Farmhouse is my main homebrewing supplier - I generally buy everything from you except for pale malt (which I get by the 50 lb bag via our homebrew club's group buy). I do so for a number of reasons - your selection is good, especially in hops, you ship quickly, and because you are just down the highway from me (in Chicago) I get my orders in a timely and economical manner. Also, you supported my homebrew club's hop school a couple of years ago, for which I remain grateful.

 

[LarMoeCur]

SHIPPING...SHIPPING...SHIPPING. I browse HBT everyday looking for deals. That being said, I buy from all of the sponsors here. I have no loyalty when it comes to my money. I only look at shipped pricing. I have filled many of shopping carts to promptly exit with out buying. Right at the shipping cost spot in the transaction. I'd love to buy a pound or two of hops at that sale price of 8 bucks but not when shipping is 6-14 dollars. Add just a few pounds of malt and the shipping at some places goes through the roof. I end up waiting and putting in one big order with free shipping or reduced shipping. So I pay $10-12 a pound vise the $8 but add in the shipping it's still the same price. Someone said it here earlier, Amazon Prime! Now they have it down to a science. Amazons prices are never the cheapest out there but when you factor in prime free two day shipping. Now, they are competitively priced. Still not the cheapest but, because you pay an annual fee and we all know you have to get your money's worth or it's wasted. So, you buy from them with out even shopping around.

I have no local HBS so I would for sure be in for a $100 Farmhouse Prime account as long as it has free or reduced shipping.

 

[Redtab78]

SHIPPING...SHIPPING...SHIPPING. I browse HBT everyday looking for deals. That being said, I buy from all of the sponsors here. I have no loyalty when it comes to my money. I only look at shipped pricing. I have filled many of shopping carts to promptly exit with out buying. Right at the shipping cost spot in the transaction. I'd love to buy a pound or two of hops at that sale price of 8 bucks but not when shipping is 6-14 dollars. Add just a few pounds of malt and the shipping at some places goes through the roof. I end up waiting and putting in one big order with free shipping or reduced shipping. So I pay $10-12 a pound vise the $8 but add in the shipping it's still the same price. Someone said it here earlier, Amazon Prime! Now they have it down to a science. Amazons prices are never the cheapest out there but when you factor in prime free two day shipping. Now, they are competitively priced. Still not the cheapest but, because you pay an annual fee and we all know you have to get your money's worth or it's wasted. So, you buy from them with out even shopping around.

I have no local HBS so I would for sure be in for a $100 Farmhouse Prime account as long as it has free or reduced shipping.

this...shipping is everything to a buyer. If I buy 10# of grain, that can all fit into a fixed rate shipping box...the shipping should be less that $10

 

[Oginme]

I purchase the majority of my hops through Farmhouse, usually 4 oz or 1 lb packages. Even with shipping it works out significantly cheaper than my LHBS. Much of this is because I can maximize the package for content to keep the shipping cost reasonable.

While Farmhouse's price on grains is very attractive, the additional shipping cost based upon the weight takes it much higher in cost than I can purchase locally. Every year, I plan out my season's brews and taking the total amount of grains look at several different on-line suppliers for total cost comparison. Splitting out the hops from the grains, Farmhouse usually comes in among the lowest cost for hops. Even with some of the 'free' shipping, none of the other on-line suppliers can compete on grains with buying locally. Much of the shipping cost when it comes to grains has to do with distance and location and that shows up in the comparisons.

 

[ViciousFishes]

SHIPPING...SHIPPING...SHIPPING. I browse HBT everyday looking for deals. That being said, I buy from all of the sponsors here. I have no loyalty when it comes to my money. I only look at shipped pricing. I have filled many of shopping carts to promptly exit with out buying. Right at the shipping cost spot in the transaction. I'd love to buy a pound or two of hops at that sale price of 8 bucks but not when shipping is 6-14 dollars. Add just a few pounds of malt and the shipping at some places goes through the roof. I end up waiting and putting in one big order with free shipping or reduced shipping. So I pay $10-12 a pound vise the $8 but add in the shipping it's still the same price. Someone said it here earlier, Amazon Prime! Now they have it down to a science. Amazons prices are never the cheapest out there but when you factor in prime free two day shipping. Now, they are competitively priced. Still not the cheapest but, because you pay an annual fee and we all know you have to get your money's worth or it's wasted. So, you buy from them with out even shopping around.

I have no local HBS so I would for sure be in for a $100 Farmhouse Prime account as long as it has free or reduced shipping.

I agree with much that is said here. I buy hops by the pound only and have a Google spreadsheet where I keep prevailing prices for the hops I use across all vendors. When I need hops, I take 15 minutes to update the current prices and put together a bulk buy of any hops I need/want to amortize the cost of shipping. And I do pay attention to the cost of shipping at each site. The problem I'm trying to manage is that some sites simply keep their prices 10-30% over the market in order to be able to periodically declare a 20% discount. The current holiday 'sales' are case in point in that they're faux sales.

Here's the deal.... I'd love to take all the tracking out of the process and have the ability to pull the trigger on what I need when I need it. I would be open to a Prime type membership if it included free shipping and a REAL 10-20% discount over the average hops rates on the internet. I'd even adhere to minimum order sizes in order to make sure it's profitable for the vendor. It would be nice if it enabled access to hops in short supply (Galaxy!!) or periodically threw in a small bag of specialty grain to sweeten the deal. The problem with your idea as written is the ~$8/mo membership does little more than cover shipping and while some of your hops are competitively priced, most are more expensive than your competitors and not a single one is the best price in market. So a 20% discount may or may not be a good deal.

On average, I brew a 10g batch every other weekend, or so. Many of my beers are hoppy NE-style ales, though I also like to keep a Helles or Pils on tap. I must keep my wife's brown ale on tap at all times I have more than a dozen recipes that I rotate through and usually keep the following in my freezer in vacuum sealed mason jars: Amarillo, Cascade, Centennial, Citra, EKG, Galaxy, Hallertau, Magnum, Mosaic, Simcoe, Willamette. I will also pick up other hops on a whim. I got a shipment just today of 5lbs of hops, including Citra, Mosaic, Mittelfruh.
http://www.viciousfishes.com/p/vicious-brews.html

 

[Morrey]

I think the word "shipping" has been used on any number of posts within this thread. A 10% discount is just about on par with my local sales tax so that is not enticing to me at all.

If you use the words "Free Shipping", that gets my attention. Amazon Prime got my attention that way.

 

[OldHamlet]

we have a 10% off grain sale

What's the point of joining a membership if a non-member can still get the same deal.

 

[skraeling]

the only reason i dont buy grains online is after shipping its more than my lhbs even after taxes.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

In Internet shopping where a cheaper price is just one click away loyalty goes out the window. Its sad but true.As stated many times the cost after shipping is the only number that matters. Always have the cheapest price post shipping and youll always have the bulk of the business. As a small business owner it sucks...believe me I know

 

[Sadu]

My loyalty lies with the best price including shipping. Everything else is secondary to that. I buy full sacks of grain from one supplier that is free shipping on these. Rest of my grains and hops from another well priced supplier with free shipping over $100 but flat rate $10 shipping for anything below that (which is expensive). Small orders, another supplier does $3 shipping up to 1kg so I buy one off yeast and emergency replacement hydrometers from them.
Any website that has a vague formula for shipping or "we will contact you after placing your order for shipping" doesn't get my business. I don't know how little shops can compete with these free shipping monsters but that is the world we live in. But to answer the OP, my purchases are driven by shipping and any discount offered will be evaluated in that context. If the discounted price including shipping isn't cheaper than the places we already buy from then it gets ignored.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

Nope, I wouldn't pay for the privilege of getting a 10 or 5% discount.

 

[ba-brewer]

I would not sign up for a membership, free or discounted shipping would get more orders from me.

I get a 5% discount for being a AHA member if I go into the local morebeer, maybe offer a discount AHA members.

Keep listing the harvest year on your hops and I will keep buying them from you.

 

[Steelers77]

My loyalty lies with the best price including shipping. Everything else is secondary to that. I buy full sacks of grain from one supplier that is free shipping on these. Rest of my grains and hops from another well priced supplier with free shipping over $100 but flat rate $10 shipping for anything below that (which is expensive). Small orders, another supplier does $3 shipping up to 1kg so I buy one off yeast and emergency replacement hydrometers from them.
Any website that has a vague formula for shipping or "we will contact you after placing your order for shipping" doesn't get my business. I don't know how little shops can compete with these free shipping monsters but that is the world we live in. But to answer the OP, my purchases are driven by shipping and any discount offered will be evaluated in that context. If the discounted price including shipping isn't cheaper than the places we already buy from then it gets ignored.

Can you PM me what vendors you are using, I'd like to see the pricing on a sack of grain with free shipping and the $3 shipping on 1kg.

 

[Steelers77]

We appreciate the feedback and that is why we asked the question. Just trying to do the best we can here at Farmhouse

 

[skraeling]

@steelers77 I still love my kegs I got from you guys.

 

[Redtab78]

Here.....I got some honest first hand feedback for you. I ordered $16 worth of grain, which cost me $14 in additional shipping charges (for the 2-5 day option), against my will I went ahead and paid on Wed, and now I found out my very small shipment will not be here until next thursday...that's 8 days to get my grain if my math is correct. I could have went 4 min down the road to my lhbs and bought the exact same qty for maybe $2 more, and no shipping charges, and had it instantly. I did this just to be able to give good honest feedback.

I realize that in in Washington, and that shipping does take some time, however I have mailed a flat rate priortiy shipping box from Washington to Ohio 5 days before christams, and it was there in 3 days, which is about the same distance. The weight of that box was roughly 8# , and the cost to ship was almost the same price at $13, yet the timing was so much quicker.

This to me is disappointing as I will now still have to go purchase the grains locally in order to make my brew day timeliness, and now I'm out of pocket for the double grain bill, when all I was doing was trying to both support you guys. That's ok, lesson learned...so in the end, thanks but no thanks for a membership.

 

[Sadu]

Can you PM me what vendors you are using, I'd like to see the pricing on a sack of grain with free shipping and the $3 shipping on 1kg.

I live in New Zealand so this won't be relevant to most. But Dunedinmalt house.co.nz is 3.5 hours drive from me and will deliver a sack of grain to me free. I consider this great value, given the cost per kg is competitive anyway. I'm pretty sure this isn't a nationwide deal.

 

[TeamAshBrewing]

Loyalty programs are ok when they are free. Charge a few bucks or $100 and not many will sign up for that, especially year after year. I have 10+ loyalty cards that I use and I only keep them because they don't cost anything (except space in my wallet). Buy 10 gals of milk, get 1 free, buy 10 lunches, get 1 free, get 10% back for every $100 purchase, stuff like that. And I get a punch for sale items too. Those loyalty programs benefit both store and customer because I probably will purchase something else as long as I am at the store.
That might work for an online store like yours as well. Buy x# 4oz hops, get 1 4oz free (of equal or lesser value), same applies to 1# bags.
Now if the reason for asking is additional cash for a large purchase or something, I don't have an idea for that. But what I will mention is that the ROI has to be achievable in a relatively short term (under 2yrs or so). Using $20/lb for hops, a 20% discount is $4, or roughly 25 pounds of hops to break even. That's a lot of hops and a lot of homebrew. I only brew once or twice a month and use only 4-8oz per batch, so its not worth it for me.

 

[Weezy]

I like the idea. But I would try to figure out how I could replace the LHBS: free shipping. Could you do a membership, like Amazon Prime, that does free shipping on most things?

 

[MapleGroveAleworks]

I'd be much more inclined to do this if you created an amazing prime type membership with free shipping on certain items.

Also, I shop at places like Morebeer often because of their free shipping after $59 spent. If you could swing that I'd switch to you guys. Shipping is everything.

 

[Pappers_]

I'll be the contrarian here - I hate the lack of transparency when purchasing online with 'free' shipping. I would much prefer to pay the actual price for the merchandise and the actual price of the shipping, rather than having the shipping costs folded into the price of the merchandise.

 

[PADave]

I don't buy anywhere near enough ingredients to justify paying $100 or even $50 a year for a discount. Like others have said shipping is big. But everyone needs to realize that someone has to pay it. I've been wanting to place a small order with you, a couple pounds of grain and some hops, but every time I get to the shipping page the rate shock scares me away. I don't know how they do it, but my last order from morebeer was over 50 lbs, and they had it to me in two days and didn't have a separate line item for shipping (free shipping). I think a loyalty card type of system would work much better, essentially giving the customer the same discount, but not asking them to pay up front.

 

[Morrey]

We appreciate the feedback and that is why we asked the question. Just trying to do the best we can here at Farmhouse

I commend you for soliciting input as this shows your dedication to serving the homebrew communities needs. At the end of the day you need to have a suitable margin that keeps you in business. Without that, you don't stay in business and we all lose. I can't see anyone here faulting you for that.

 

[Toga]

A free loyalty rewards program is what is offered at a couple homebrew shops I spend the most with. One is extremely local (i live on the same road) the other is 45 -60 minutes away and I buy online from them most of the time. Shipping if in the great lakes area is cheap and costs me less than gas and time more often than not (homebrewing.org). The rewards program gets you 5% in the form of store credit once you spend $200. This is ongoing. Every time you reach the $200 mark no matter how long it takes, you can use your credit.

 

[Steelers77]

I don't buy anywhere near enough ingredients to justify paying $100 or even $50 a year for a discount. Like others have said shipping is big. But everyone needs to realize that someone has to pay it. I've been wanting to place a small order with you, a couple pounds of grain and some hops, but every time I get to the shipping page the rate shock scares me away. I don't know how they do it, but my last order from morebeer was over 50 lbs, and they had it to me in two days and didn't have a separate line item for shipping (free shipping). I think a loyalty card type of system would work much better, essentially giving the customer the same discount, but not asking them to pay up front.

Can you give me more specifics. We have a tiered shipping program and a few pounds of gains and hops should not have been more than $8.99.

 

[Ki-ri-n]

I know most are concerned about shipping but what about "local" walk-ins? I've been to your store once-because I was in the area. I liked what I saw but it's hard to justify going the "extra" distance. You'll never be able to please everyone but it would be nice to appeal to both on-line and brick & motor shoppers.

 

[bob1852]

From a hop buying perspective, I likely wouldn't join a membership program.

It seems that throughout the year, I end up buying hops from multiple vendors, based on availability first.

A discount/membership program doesn't do me any good if you're out of stock on a certain crop...

 

[stonebrewer]

@Steelers77: First off, I buy most of my hops and a few other items from you. I am already a pretty loyal customer. I can't see paying to get into a club, because I never know what my year is going to be like brewing wise. I may brew one year every couple of weeks, and other years I am lucky to brew every 2nd or 3rd month.

Second, check out this link: http://www.homebrewninja.com/ as this is where the price plus shipping is better analyzed. The site is slow and a bit cumbersome to use, but it tells you instantly where to go for the lowest price on any order, shipping taken into account. So if I wanted a pound of Citra, a pound of Mosaic, and two pounds of Columbus you come in second place between RiteBrew and MoreBeer. Morebeer has free shipping but higher priced hops, RiteBrew is cheaper on hops than you, but shipping is a bit higher and overall I can order from them for $12 and change cheaper on my mythical order.

Now I want more stuff, 10# of C60, 2# of corn sugar, 10# of Special B, 1# of Galaxy hops, and 2 vials of WLP002. For whatever reason, you come in third when I was expecting you to come in first because of your current price on Galaxy. Probably because you do not carry WLP002? So discounting the WLP002, you are FAR cheaper than MoreBeer and AIH, by over $20 bucks. MoreBeer has free shipping, and you would charge me $12.99.

What does this all mean? Not sure, but I think Free Shipping is a gimmick as stores just increase the price of all goods to account for it. I think you charge a fair price for your products, I have been happy with what I bought from you, so I will keep buying from you most of the time. I will say I think you might have the loyalty thing backwards as you will find it hard to get folks to pay you for their loyalty. You are very competitive as the above examples show, that is the real way to win people's loyalty. I think the above suggestion of a points system may be the right avenue for you to drum up more business, as the shopping list website does not take that into account and if you came in second to RiteBrew, I would likely go with you if I was earning points to free/discounted stuff in the future. Otherwise, keep doing what you do!!

 

[PADave]

Can you give me more specifics. We have a tiered shipping program and a few pounds of gains and hops should not have been more than $8.99.

I suppose it more psychological than anything. I've been wanting to order some of the Thomas Fawcett Amber malt from you. 5lbs of grain is $8.45, then $8.99 for shipping. Seeing it like that makes it harder to swallow. Like I said above, there is no such thing as free shipping. The consumer is paying for it, whether it's a line item, or it's absorbed into the prices of the product.

 

[tjmac5071]

The only reason I mention shipping is sometimes I need a $5 keg connector or something and it seems so many places have a bottom rate of like 8.99 when in reality a padded envelope and 70 cents gets it to me

 

[Calaeb]

Just wanted to say i think you guys are doing a great job, keep it up!

 

[Steelers77]

The only reason I mention shipping is sometimes I need a $5 keg connector or something and it seems so many places have a bottom rate of like 8.99 when in reality a padded envelope and 70 cents gets it to me

We actually have a shipping rate for 4 and 8oz packages, that being said they have to go in a 9x6 envelope and first class rates apply. Still it is less than $3.50