Extract Twang? How to Combat It

[RichardM]

There's a lot of good info in this thread. I've also started adding LME late as well.

I have been wondering though. If a recipe calls for a hop addition at flameout, would there be any issue by adding LME and hops at the same time?

Also regarding chilling. If chilling in an icebath and stirring to avoid hot spots and chill faster, wouldn't this prevent a cold break and separation of beer and grains/hops you want to leave behind?

 

[dmtaylor]

I have been wondering though. If a recipe calls for a hop addition at flameout, would there be any issue by adding LME and hops at the same time?

Also regarding chilling. If chilling in an icebath and stirring to avoid hot spots and chill faster, wouldn't this prevent a cold break and separation of beer and grains/hops you want to leave behind?

I don't see any problem with flameout hopping and extract at the same time.

Cold break material doesn't hurt anything either, and isn't hurt by stirring or swirling (I'm a swirler). I leave little if anything behind in my kettle, just dump it all into the fermenter.

 

[MaxStout]

I just pour the entire kettle contents into the fermenter. I use a Whirlfloc tablet in the last 10 minutes of the boil. This helps precipitate most of the kettle trub in the fermenter.

 

[TrubDude]

My son was doing extract brews. He had twang. I suggested using RO (reverse osmosis, essentially the same as distilled) water, he did, his beer improved greatly. I'd move that direction if I were in your shoes.

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Here are a few other things you might consider: at what temperature are you fermenting? Are you just letting the fermenter sit in a room and that's that? Most experienced homebrewers will tell you that when they were able to control their fermentation temps, their beer took a leap. If you're fermenting too warm--and yeast is exothermic so the wort may be 5-10 degrees F higher than your ambient temperature--you can get off flavors of various kinds.

I tend to ferment at 64 degrees; I have an Amber I do at 67.

An inexpensive way to help control ferm temp is to use a swamp cooler. Get a turkey pan from the dollar store, put fermenter in it, add cold water, drape a t-shirt over the fermenter so it extends into the water and can wick up the water. As the water evaporates it cools what's inside.

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I'm also wondering about the yeast. A drop from 1.050 to 1.020 after 14 days is not much. What yeast were you using? Probably a dried yeast in a packet. How did you introduce it to the wort? Sprinkle it in? Rehydrate? Or something else?

I believe there's a process issue here somewhere. We just need to nail it down. Start w/ RO water instead of tap water, and figure out how to control fermentation temp.

A swamp cooler:

View attachment 564572

Thanks! I believe something was up with the yeast. It was dried when I pitched and it probably took 30 hours before bubbles in airlock but thats not a good indicator of fermentation. I opened the bucket and checked for bubbles. There were tons so maybe it was just slow getting going. The temp was around 62 or 64 F. It was just sitting in a room, actually bath tub, for almost three weeks now.

I took a reading today ( day 18) it was 1.018. I tasted it really well today and didn't notice much twang. Maybe its gone, maybe not. It tasted pretty good.

 

[TrubDude]

This is random because I've been drinking, but what do you guys use for a palette cleanser? I used to eat a lot of sushi so pickled ginger was the way to go. When I tasted my beer I had just drank an Ipa 10 minutes before. I wonder if my receptors were full, you know olfactory fatigue.

I'm probably over thinking it.

 

[dmtaylor]

This is random because I've been drinking, but what do you guys use for a palette cleanser? I used to eat a lot of sushi so pickled ginger was the way to go. When I tasted my beer I had just drank an Ipa 10 minutes before. I wonder if my receptors were full, you know olfactory fatigue.

White bread or pretzels.

 

[TrubDude]

I officially committed to brewing. I just bought two 5 gallon fermenters (my other kit is 3 gallon), wort chiller and imperial stout kit. A cool $215 spent.

I plan on brewing the stout this weekend and have it sit in secondary for at least 6 months to age/condition.

This spring and summer I have big plans to grow herbs for flavor and bittering.

Brewing is awesome!

 

[mongoose33]

I officially committed to brewing. I just bought two 5 gallon fermenters (my other kit is 3 gallon), wort chiller and imperial stout kit. A cool $215 spent.

I plan on brewing the stout this weekend and have it sit in secondary for at least 6 months to age/condition.

This spring and summer I have big plans to brew herbs for flavor and bittering.

Brewing is awesome!

Yeah. You have passed the event horizon. There is no return.

If you don't already have it, put fermentation temperature control next on your list. This can be achieved pretty easily with a 4.4-cu ft dorm-style refrigerator, an Inkbird or similar temp control device, and a heat mat. The inkbird is $35 on Amazon, the reptile heat mat is about $20 on Amazon, and the fridge is whatever you can find it for on Craigslist or similar. Got my small one for $60. As college students graduate or leave for the summer, you can expect these to show up more and more.

Here's mine: I didn't want to bend down the freezer compartment as many do, so I run a tube off a stopper and then out of the refrigerator into a blowoff jar. I run the cords for the inkbird temp probe and the heat mat out through a hole drilled and finished with a rubber grommet:

 

[TrubDude]

Yeah. You have passed the event horizon. There is no return.

If you don't already have it, put fermentation temperature control next on your list. This can be achieved pretty easily with a 4.4-cu ft dorm-style refrigerator, an Inkbird or similar temp control device, and a heat mat. The inkbird is $35 on Amazon, the reptile heat mat is about $20 on Amazon, and the fridge is whatever you can find it for on Craigslist or similar. Got mine small one for $60. As college students graduate or leave for the summer, you can expect these to show up more and more.

Here's mine: I didn't want to bend down the freezer compartment as many do, so I run a tube off a stopper and then out of the refrigerator into a blowoff jar. I run the cords for the inkbird temp probe and the heat mat out through a hole drilled and finished with a rubber grommet:

View attachment 564935 View attachment 564936

Wow! That's pretty incredible. Sorry for my late response, I was meaning to respond but then forgot. Nice setup. Does temperature control make a huge difference? Do the controllers allow changing the amount of heat going to the mat?

 

[mongoose33]

Wow! That's pretty incredible. Sorry for my late response, I was meaning to respond but then forgot. Nice setup. Does temperature control make a huge difference? Do the controllers allow changing the amount of heat going to the mat?

Does Temp Control make a huge difference? Yes. You can manage it with a swamp cooler if you monitor it, and it's cheap, but the best way (IMO) is to have refrigeration controlled by an Inkbird or similar, and including a heat mat as part of it.

The Inkbird 308 allows you to control both the refrigerator and a heat mat; when the temp of the fermenter gets too high, the refrigerator is turned on (you set the control on the fridge to the coldest it'll go, and the Inkbird turns it on and off as necessary).

When the temp gets too low, it'll turn on a heat source. I use either a fermwrap or a reptile heat mat. I wrap them around the fermenter (best way to apply gentle heat), and that's that. The fermwrap is 40 watts, the reptile mat about half that. Unless the surrounding environment is very cold, the reptile mat will work.

I typically ferment ales around 64-67. When the krausen falls, I'll bump the temp up to 71 or so for a couple days to help the yeast clean up after themselves, then back to 64 degrees for another week or so. Then package. The heat mat makes that easy.

I use a piece of closed-cell foam to press the temp probe against the fermenter so it measures the temp of the fermenter and the foam isolates it from ambient temp.

You can get a used dorm-style fridge like mine on Craigslist for about $60 give or take (good time? when colleges let out in the spring). The Inkbird goes for $35 but occasionally the Inkbird rep here on HBT will run a 15-percent off special on them. FWIW, I have 5 of those Inkbirds. The reptile mat is about $16. So for around $100-110 you can have excellent fermentation temperature control.

If you can find a larger used refrigerator you can use that as well, of course. Sometimes people can find 'em free, at which point it's only the Inkbird and heat mat that you need.

The pic above shows the pink foam holding the temp probe against the fermenter and the fermwrap around it. Here's another pic below showing my other ferm chamber with two fermenters, one with the reptile mat, one with the fermwrap.

 

[TrubDude]

I kind of screwed up carbonation for my 24 oz bottles. I primed with drops and fermented for 1 week. The 12 oz bottles were perfect. The 24s were a little flat. I might be delirious but I faintly remember achieving some carbonation in the fridge (which I moved them to). This is probably false because yeast will not be active at 40 F.

This is for my American style IPA 3 gallon full boil.

 

[dmtaylor]

Most yeast is still active at 40 F. Just very slow.

 

[TrubDude]

Most yeast is still active at 40 F. Just very slow.

Nice! That's what I thought.

 

[bbohanon]

I fought this with all I had when I first started brewing and gave up and just went all grain.
I firmly believe that some folks can smell/taste this "twang" more than others and I will say it will eventually "age" off for the most part, but I was very attuned to this syrupy twang taste it seems and nothing I did ever fully got rid of it.

I just finally got tired of it always being there and moved to AG.

I still smell it when I am rushed for time and I make starters with DME (or I imagine I can smell it). I decant as much as I can before pitching.

 

[TrubDude]

I fought this with all I had when I first started brewing and gave up and just went all grain.
I firmly believe that some folks can smell/taste this "twang" more than others and I will say it will eventually "age" off for the most part, but I was very attuned to this syrupy twang taste it seems and nothing I did ever fully got rid of it.

I just finally got tired of it always being there and moved to AG.

I still smell it when I am rushed for time and I make starters with DME (or I imagine I can smell it). I decant as much as I can before pitching.

Yeah, I still taste it in my full boil. It's not terrible, just has a distinct funky taste. It's still pretty dang good beer though!

 

[bbohanon]

Yeah, I still taste it in my full boil. It's not terrible, just has a distinct funky taste. It's still pretty dang good beer though!

Yea its weird man..when I made extract beers they were good beers and most of the friends that I had enjoyed them immensely but me and 2 of my consumers always picked up on the "twang" and noticed it very acutely.
Again, the longer the beer aged, the less it was present and when I made a RIS where I cellared it for 6 months+ in the bottle, it would go completely away. Younger beers I made like blondes/IPAs it was always there front and center for me.

2 of my friends thought I was going mental over it when I was chasing it..lol

I have never picked it up in any of my 100% all grain batches.

 

[TrubDude]

I'm getting used to the twang. Like I said, the beer is still good.

I cellared it for 6 months+ in the bottle

Is it possible to cellar a glass carboy for 6+ months at 60-70F before bottling? The reason I ask, I want to brew an imperial stout and cask ferment for 6 months so it's ready come November. I did some research and can't seem to find exactly what I want to do. I picked up some cask yeast to pitch before bottling because the stout will be ~9% ABV, which would kill the original yeast.
Should I just bottle in a month, carbonate, then stick in the fridge till November?