Extract Guinness Draught Clone

[Pluto035]

Hey everyone,

I recently tried my hand at making my first stout, a Guinness draught clone kit. After being in the bottle for almost two months they still seem to be more bitter than a typical pint of Guinness. The hops tend to overpower the roasted flavor more than I would have liked. Is the extra bitterness just inherent in this recipe or more likely something I am doing/not doing?

Thanks!

Here is the recipe.

1lb Black Roasted Barley
1/2lb Pale Ale Malt
10oz Flaked Barley
5lb Amber LME
2.5oz Kent Goldings (Bittering)
White Labs Irish Ale 004

I used 2.5 gallons of distilled water for the steeping/boil and held the water at around 150-160 for 30 minutes.

Primary for two weeks around 65-70 degrees, no secondary.

 

[Suthrncomfrt1884]

Let it sit. The flavors will mellow after a few months.

Also...where did you get this clone kit? It's not an authentic guiness clone if you ask me. No sour beer added to give it the key guiness flavor.

 

[Pluto035]

I ordered the kit from Austin Home brew supply. If I order it again, how would I get soured beer to add? Leave out some Guinness? How would I control what strain of wild yeast would soured it? Sorry for all the rapid fire questions.

 

[Gregscsu]

The bitterness will mellow in time. It is possible that your Chloride to Sulfate Ratio is very low excentuating the bitterness in your brew. Have other beers you brewed seemed overly bitter, more so than was expected.

 

[Suthrncomfrt1884]

If the bitterness doesn't go away, then gregscsu is on the right thought train. Your water may be the issue.

As far as creating a guiness clone with soured beer...it takes a lot of time and planning. There's a clone in the BYO clone book that is too complex. I could do it, it's just not worth the trouble when I can buy guiness everywhere. I suggest checking that out. Or you could add 3-4oz. of acid malt to your recipe and it would give you a similar (not exact) taste.

 

[SumnerH]

I ordered the kit from Austin Home brew supply. If I order it again, how would I get soured beer to add? Leave out some Guinness? How would I control what strain of wild yeast would soured it? Sorry for all the rapid fire questions.

Search here for "guinness souring" and you'll get results.

If you're willing to do a mini-mash--it's very similar to steeping specialty grains, see deathbrewer's post on it--is to use 2 oz or so of acidulated malt in a 5 gallon batch.

 

[Suthrncomfrt1884]

Search here for "guinness souring" and you'll get results.

If you're willing to do a mini-mash--it's very similar to steeping specialty grains, see deathbrewer's post on it--is to use 2 oz or so of acidulated malt in a 5 gallon batch.

As I said above....this is a good way to "mimick" the guiness flavor, but it won't get you all the way there. Getting all the way there takes a pretty complicated process.

You basically mash a pale ale beer. Ferment this as usual. You also mash a seperate 1 gallon batch of "coloring extract" by using pale malt and all of your dark malts. Then ferment this as usual. When the pale ale is done fermenting, you take 15-20oz. out of the fermenter and add brett to it. Ferment all of them for another 2-3 months and combine everything when ready to bottle. It involves no acid malt, and will give you the authentic guiness sourness.

 

[CDbrews]

just throw a couple bottles of guinness in a bowl and let it sit out for a couple weeks, then toss it in in the last few minutes of the boil for the guinness bite

 

[SumnerH]

As I said above....this is a good way to "mimick" the guiness flavor, but it won't get you all the way there. Getting all the way there takes a pretty complicated process.

Yeah, that's why I said to search for souring. The acid malt is a quick way to get 80% of the way there.

You basically mash a pale ale beer. Ferment this as usual. You also mash a seperate 1 gallon batch of "coloring extract" by using pale malt and all of your dark malts. Then ferment this as usual. When the pale ale is done fermenting, you take 15-20oz. out of the fermenter and add brett to it. Ferment all of them for another 2-3 months and combine everything when ready to bottle. It involves no acid malt, and will give you the authentic guiness sourness.

AFAIK, Guinness uses old Guinness as the soured beer. And it's lacto bacteria, not brett, that sours it.

http://media.www.jhunewsletter.com/...Science.Behind.Brewing.Guinness-2247170.shtml talks about it:

Whether or not breweries also add sour Guinness to the brew has also come into question. The answer is yes. The brewing process actually requires the addition of a bit of soured Guinness.

A fraction of the beer is still taken from old oaken vats used a century or so ago. These vats contain lactic acid bacteria, which sours the beer. This soured beer is then pasteurized and added to the modern vats to produce the desired Guinness brew we know and love.

 

[PT Ray]

Back to the recipe, that seems like a lot of bittering. The roasted barley seems a little high also. The classic dry stout recipe is 70% Pale, 20% Flaked Barley, 10% Roasted Barley. If I was doing extract I would leave out the flaked barley as it really needs to be mashed. I'd start with 6lbs LME, .75lbs Roasted Barley and 1.5oz EKG. If I was trying to nail a dry stout (any style for that matter) I'd start simple and go from there.

 

[Pluto035]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I may attempt the acid malt or leaving out some Guinness to sour on the next go at this style. I'm pretty sure the tap water here sucks, so the last few beers I've used distilled water. I'll probably cut down on the hops next time as well.

On a side note, is there a reason why an extract kit would include grains that must be mashed? Like the flaked barely in this case.

 

[PT Ray]

On a side note, is there a reason why an extract kit would include grains that must be mashed? Like the flaked barely in this case.

There was a little bit of pale that could have converted some of the flaked. However, if you used 2.5 gallons of water the diastic power would have been so diluted I'm not sure there was a lot of conversion going on.

It's really not that uncommon to find extract kits that have you steep flaked barley or even oatmeal for an oatmeal stout. It will impart flavor, just also adds starch.

 

[GunnerMan]

I don't think a huge process is needed to clone Guinness. When your guinness clone is done fermenting take 30-50 oz of it out of the primary and move to a growler or something. Drop a spoonful of 2 row into that growler(or add cultued lactobacillus) and let this sit untill it is nice and soured up(I cover my growler so I dont get acetobacter etc in there). Then pasturize, add back to the primary to taste and bottle.

Check out BierMunchers Ode to Arthur Guinness clone, I use carafoam in my recipe instead of the flaked, also steeping acid malt works just as well as mashing it for the sour flavor.

 

[SexPanther13]

Let it sit. The flavors will mellow after a few months.

Also...where did you get this clone kit? It's not an authentic guiness clone if you ask me. No sour beer added to give it the key guiness flavor.

Guinness has flavor?

 

[Suthrncomfrt1884]

Guinness has flavor?

Give me a break...you know you still drink guinness. All my friends concider me a beer snob, but I still drink keystone at bonfires and guinness at bars with no good beer. I see nothing wrong with it either...as long as I don't loose sight of what good beer is.

 

[demzly]

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