Expired Wyeast Smack Packs.. worth it?

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might have to use a starter and step it up... even then you're dealing with deal yeast cells in your beer. To me... not worth it by the time you use your time and double batch of DME
 
The owner of my LHBS brews with the expired ones alot. Says he has great success using them to make a starter and brew. I'm only taking his word here, but no reason not to. I'd say try'n make a starter and step it up, but that's me.
 
Well DME is what - $4.50/lb and for 2 starters you need what, about half a pound. Not to mention your yeast nutrient and your natural gas from your stove. 30 minutes of running for 2 starters.... starts to add up... plus your time. All to get yourself to the same point you could be if you just bought a fresh packet for $8 instead of the discounted one for $3?
 
Go for it, if you're going to use it somewhat soon. I wouldn't buy it and let it sit around any longer. (I I just found yeast in my fridge from 2009, I don't think I"ll be using it.)

I save and freeze my leftover wort for starters. You know that liter or so of liquid left over after you fill your fermentor is full, I save and freeze it in a water bottle. Next time I need a starter I just thaw it and then boil it in the flask to sanitize it.

I also have DME as well.

B
 
elproducto said:
My LHBS has some expired smack packs for realy cheap. Are they worth it as long as you use a starter, which I always do anyway.
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I would do it in a heartbeat if it was a PC yeast. I would also likely do it if they had one of my favorites. Really no different than using washed yeast at worst and normally much better.
 
I keep SmackPacks in my fridge for really long time. I had no problems with packages as old as 16 months, usually they aren't younger than 10 months when i finally use them. But starter is a must (stepped to 2.5qt in case of lager yeast, 1qt for "normal" ale yeast, 0.7qt with weizen yeast).

And i know the stories of succesful use of 2 years old SmackPacks.
 
By just doing a starter you likely aren't going to have enough cells. Sure you can pitch a 6 month old package in a 1070 beer and get it to ferment. However, would the beer taste better if you used twice as many cells.... chances are yes.
 
You'll be surprised. It will be fine, make a starter for best results.

I pitched year old washed yeast with no starter one time just to see if it would work...took off without a hitch!
 
I use "expired" yeasts all the time. Depending on how far they are past their "best before" date, I start them in 200-500 ml of wort, and then step it up to my standard 1800 ml starter size on the stirplate. This hasn't failed me yet. The extra cost beyond a regular starter is the extra 20-50 g of DME and extra 1/8 tsp of yeast nutrient for the first starter. If that extra 50 cents breaks the bank, then you probably shouldn't be brewing. And you get plenty of cells by stepping it up, too.
 
Misplaced_Canuck said:
People build up yeast from bottle dredges all the time... So what's the difference with that and using a beyond-date Wyeast pack?

I'd have no problems using a 2-y-old Wyeast. Allow plenty of time for the pack to swell up at least a bit, and build up the starter, a few times if necessary.

M_C
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Exactly how I feel about it also.
 
I'm sure it can be done, but for what its worth I recently bought two smack packs that were roughly a year old. Both failed to start despite my efforts to save them. There are a lot of of other variables besides age, for instance how the yeast was handled during shipping. If the price is right go for it, but my experience hasn't been great...wnc
 
I found a smackpack frozen in my fridge when i went home to my parents for the weeekend. Just messing around I threw in some sugar water and smacked the pack put it all in and the yeast was going crazy the next time I checked on it 24 hours later.
 
boo boo said:
Exactly how I feel about it also.
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Same here. If it swells after a few hours I'd make a starter like normal. I see no reason to make a double size starter.

Additionally, if the discounts on these smack packs are great enough, It may be a good opportunity to try some new strains or recipes that one wouldn't normally do.
 
Baldy_Beer_Brewery said:
Same here. If it swells after a few hours I'd make a starter like normal. I see no reason to make a double size starter.

Additionally, if the discounts on these smack packs are great enough, It may be a good opportunity to try some new strains or recipes that one wouldn't normally do.
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A few hours? I wouldn't expect a smack pack to swell up for at least 3-5 days if it's a year or two old. Heck, my 6 month old smack pack of Ringwood took 4 days to swell up only about 1/2". But I did build up the yeast quite well.

M_C
 
Baldy_Beer_Brewery said:
I can't see waiting 4 days for a smack pack to swell. And then adding the time for a starter to grow.
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Bit of planning ahead and you'll be OK.

Monday (or even sunday if package is really old) - smack the pack.
Thursday - make starter.
Saturday - brew day.

If it doesn't swell until friday morning... Well, you have some time to get any other yeast. ;)
 
elproducto said:
Excellent point, well I'll pass then.
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You're gonna pass because you have to make a starter? You should be making a starter everytime you use liquid yeast, new or otherwise....

If you make a starter, then the age of a yeast isn't really an issue.

Bobby M did a test on year old stored yeast here; https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/testing-limits-yeast-viability-126707/

And my LHBS cells outdated tubes and packs of yeast dirt cheap 2-3 dollars each and I usually grab a couple tubes of belgian or other interesting yeast when I am there and shove it in my fridge. and I have never had a problem with one of those tubes.

I usually make a starter but I once pitched a year old tube of Belgian High Gravity yeast directly into a 2.5 gallon batch of a Belgian Dark Strong, and after about 4 days it took off beautifully.
The purpose of a starter is to reproduce any viable cells in a batch of yeast....that;s how we can grow a starter form the dregs in a bottle of beer incrementally...and that beer may be months old.

Even if you have a few still living cells, you can grow them....That's how we can harvest a huge starter (incrementally) from the dregs in a bottle of some commercial beers. You take those few living cells and grow them into more.
 
I totally jinxed myself with my previous post. For some very strange reason, even though I had a great starter, my WLP 029 failed to take off. Revvy would be proud of me - I waited more than 72 hours before digging through my yeast collection and tossing a couple of other vials in there this morning - hopefully that'll finally get this batch going.
 
Baldy_Beer_Brewery said:
I can't see waiting 4 days for a smack pack to swell. And then adding the time for a starter to grow.
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You NEVER have to wait for a smack pack to expand, even a fresh one, ESPECIALLY if you are making a starter.

From the horse's mouth.

From the Wyeast FAQ website:

3. Does the package need to be fully swollen before pitching?

No, The package can be pitched before activating, or at anytime during the activation process. The activation process "jump starts" the culture's metabolism, minimizing the lag phase.
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Smacking though fun, is never really necessary.
 
Whenever I buy old ($2) smack packs, I usually forgo the traditional starter and go with a bottle of Malta Goya. It's super cheap, like $0.95 cents a bottle and doesn't require boiling. Just dump it in your flask, dilute 1/2 with water and add the old yeast. Works like a charm every time.
 

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