Experiences with different saison yeast blends

[Queequeg]

This is the current pressure in a fermenter of mine fermenting a milk stout. When it was gassing off it was actually higher. This is with a blowoff

 

[tgmartin000]

That's less than 0.1 psi. Is that really enough to do anything?

 

[Queequeg]

Maybe maybe not. It significant relative to the weight of the water, not so much relative ti atmospheric pressure. Thought the info was worth sharing

 

[filthyastronaut]

Planning to play around with some yeast blends in a month or so. First I'm gonna make an IPA with just WLP 644, then harvest it and blend with Belle Saison. After that, I'll harvest again and then add 3724. Both saisons will have the same grain bill and Pekko hops. I'm fully expecting the one with just 644 and Belle to be a fruit bomb, and the next to (hopefully) have a contrasting spice character. I'll report on the results.

 

[stickyfinger]

OK, I'm going to make a Saison in May. I haven't made one for quite a long time. I've only made on that I really loved once. Can someone please tell me how to make a really fresh, spicy, peppery version? Give me a recipe and a yeast or yeast combo to use!

 

[chrilr]

OK, I'm going to make a Saison in May. I haven't made one for quite a long time. I've only made on that I really loved once. Can someone please tell me how to make a really fresh, spicy, peppery version? Give me a recipe and a yeast or yeast combo to use!

Brewing Classic Styles is a good place to start

 

[trav77]

70% pils
20% wheat
10% Munich

Bitter to 30 ibu
Ounce or two of your fav noble hop late in the kettle.

Ferment warm with 3711.

Then you can play around with other strains to get added complexity but 3711 will give you a bone dry finish with no fuss. Belle saison is another easy option.

 

[stickyfinger]

i think i'll try 3711.

 

[badlee]

I second the easiness of 3711 or Bell, but take a look at TYB Wallonian,it is bliss.
My "grain bill" for all Saisons is 35% each Weyermann Pils and Vienna,20% mix of wheat and oats, 10% cane sugar.
Pitch low and let it go!

 

[stickyfinger]

i tried starting my saison at 90f last time per some Wyeast advice for their 3724 - the one that stalls? - didn't like the finished flavor. fermented fast but tasted "old" to me

 

[hopbrad]

i think i'll try 3711.

Omega's Saisonstein is nice. a hybrid of 3711 and 3724. I havent used 3711 yet, but have some in the fridge

 

[stickyfinger]

Omega's Saisonstein is nice. a hybrid of 3711 and 3724. I havent used 3711 yet, but have some in the fridge

cool. thx. sounds lovely like a good combo. good flavor and good attenuator.

 

[stickyfinger]

I second the easiness of 3711 or Bell, but take a look at TYB Wallonian,it is bliss.
My "grain bill" for all Saisons is 35% each Weyermann Pils and Vienna,20% mix of wheat and oats, 10% cane sugar.
Pitch low and let it go!

seems like 35% vienna is a lot of darker base malt. i am intrigued though.

 

[stickyfinger]

what about a malt bill of like 10% rye malt, 10-20% vienna and the balance as Pils malt? I am leaning toward WY3711 to start at like 66-68F and then let it ramp up naturally to like 80-85F and hold there until fermentation is done?

 

[trav77]

i tried starting my saison at 90f last time per some Wyeast advice for their 3724 - the one that stalls? - didn't like the finished flavor. fermented fast but tasted "old" to me

Yeah don't start it that hot. Just let it rise and then hold it hot.

 

[stickyfinger]

Yeah don't start it that hot. Just let it rise and then hold it hot.

yeah, i think it was a mistake. Wyeast advised to do it though!!!

I think I'm going to try wy3711, maybe with Brett at the pitch?, with a lot of Citra, start in the 60s and let it go up to 85-90 and hold until done fermenting. see what happens. thanks to all and Braufessor for his private messages.

 

[trav77]

Sounds good. In my experience citra and 3711 work nicely together.

 

[badlee]

@stickyfinger
Vienna is not all that dark.
Plus, my Saisons are mostly below 1.045, so the Vienna helps it with some character.
Plus, you can hop the crap out of a grain bill like that and still manage to have a nice malt support

 

[newkirk]

Just my 2¢... My saison is about 70% pils, 12% wheat, 9% each carahell, and abbey malt. Bittered with Mosaic, finished with a mix of Mosaic, Strisselspalt, and Wai-iti hops.

I ferment (usually) with 3711, 66°-68° F ambient. No other temp control measures. I always get light pepperiness, and some fruit I attribute mostly to the Wai-iti, and a nice malty note. And incredible attenuation. (1.050 to 1.007 in about a week)

I pitched some 3711 in secondary on a cherry quad. It went from somewhere about 1.106 to about 1.028 on the WLP530, then the 3711 amazingly took it down to around 1.006! (currently aging, on rebrew I'll go for closer to 1.080 plus cherries...)

My favorite yeast. I wish WhiteLabs had a match for it, since they're what my LHBS carries, plus I'm a few hours from their new Asheville NC place. (mom is a few miles)

j

 

[stickyfinger]

ok. good ideas here

 

[stickyfinger]

I was leaning toward RVA263 after the review of it being very spicy. However, they have 10 day turnaround. I might try to call around the stores listed on the RVA site to see if they'd ship me some (if it's not too old.)

I was also thinking of WY3711, but people are saying it is one-dimensional and "lemony." Is it SUPER lemony?

 

[stickyfinger]

@MannyEdwards
I'd be interested to hear how your saisons hold up that you age. I stopped kegging any of my saisons, or any belgians for that matter, because I felt like the bottles lasted longer with the natural carbonation. The few saisons I kegged and bottled (purged using my beer gun) didnt hold up nearly as well as the older ones I had bottle carbed.

wow, really? what temp do you store the saisons at once carbonated?

 

[tgmartin000]

Just my 2¢... My saison is about 70% pils, 12% wheat, 9% each carahell, and abbey malt. Bittered with Mosaic, finished with a mix of Mosaic, Strisselspalt, and Wai-iti hops.

I ferment (usually) with 3711, 66°-68° F ambient. No other temp control measures. I always get light pepperiness, and some fruit I attribute mostly to the Wai-iti, and a nice malty note. And incredible attenuation. (1.050 to 1.007 in about a week)

I pitched some 3711 in secondary on a cherry quad. It went from somewhere about 1.106 to about 1.028 on the WLP530, then the 3711 amazingly took it down to around 1.006! (currently aging, on rebrew I'll go for closer to 1.080 plus cherries...)

My favorite yeast. I wish WhiteLabs had a match for it, since they're what my LHBS carries, plus I'm a few hours from their new Asheville NC place. (mom is a few miles)

j

White labs has a french saison strain, but never used it. However, I just learned wyeast now has their farmhouse strain in its year round lineup!

 

[stickyfinger]

I have a pound of Kohatu I'd like to use. I thought I had a pound of Motueka, but I guess I don't. Has anyone used Kohatu in saison?

 

[stickyfinger]

Finally! I read through the entire thread! took several hours! lots of good info here. Thanks everyone for your hard work. m00ps, my god, how do you brew so many saisons?!

i have some good ideas for how to do this. i'm pretty intrigued by wy3711 with maybe hothead at this point. rye malt might figure in there somehow.

 

[stickyfinger]

I just sampled my Rye Saison last night. Thank you so much to this thread!!! It is my best saison ever, or at least approaches my Spring 2008 saison that I have been trying to replicate! I used

10% rye malt
10% 2-row
80% Pils

pitched with WY3711 and Hothead - left at 67F for 24 hrs then ramped up to 90F for 6 days, kegged day 7 and sampled day 8
1.055 to 1.002 with a 150F mash temp and no mashout

It is dry, tart, fruity, spicy, delicious! I hope to play with more yeasts and more combinations. Can't really tell what the rye malt added. I'd have to do a side-by-side to know I think. The yeast is so dominant!

 

[WI_Wino]

I just sampled my Rye Saison last night. Thank you so much to this thread!!! It is my best saison ever, or at least approaches my Spring 2008 saison that I have been trying to replicate! I used

10% rye malt
10% 2-row
10% Pils

pitched with WY3711 and Hothead - left at 67F for 24 hrs then ramped up to 90F for 6 days, kegged day 7 and sampled day 8
1.055 to 1.002 with a 150F mash temp and no mashout

It is dry, tart, fruity, spicy, delicious! I hope to play with more yeasts and more combinations. Can't really tell what the rye malt added. I'd have to do a side-by-side to know I think. The yeast is so dominant!

What's the other 70 percent of the grain bill?

 

[stickyfinger]

What's the other 70 percent of the grain bill?

sorry, i meant 80% pils. i corrected it. thanks!

 

[tgmartin000]

I'm really enjoying a saison I brewed with corn, using a blend of white labs and wyeast saison.

I made a starter from a vial of WLP565 and a packet of 3724, both belgian saison blends. After high krausen, I added 50 mL of 3711. This blend just finished it's 3rd beer, and the result, is very spicy and peppery, dry, and just slightly fruity. Very clean on the finish, it's a really great beer.

 

[NothingRhymesWithCurtiss]

My Saisons brewing experience is limited to 2 batches using Belle Saison, and while I enjoyed both, their taste and aroma was very similar, despite huge variants between batches.

Batch 1:
Maris Otter, Munich and White Wheat. Hops added at 60, 15, 5, and 0.)
Hallertau and Kent Goldings.
Temp Control at 65° F
FG 1.012

Batch 2:
2 Row, White Wheat and Victory.
Azacca and Jarrylo (No bittering additions. Hops split between 15, Whirlpool and Dry Hop.)
No Temp Control. Batch hit 82° F at one point.
FG 1.001

I still have 3 satchels of Belle Saison left, and really want to knock out at least 2 more Saisons before August (baby on the way). Any suggestions for a little "diversity" in the batches?

I have a Belgian Blonde batch going right now with some Abbaye yeast that I thought about blending some slurry in with my next Saison.

Another thought was to take the grain bill I have already bought for an upcoming Rye Pale ale, skip the Crystal 40, and ferment with Belle Saison.

Any/all advice is appreciated.

Thanks.