Experiences with different saison yeast blends

[trav77]

How saison-like is it on its own? I'm thinking roughly 50/50 pils/rye mashed low, bittered in the mid-twenties and given a couple ounces of late hops - maybe Lemon Drop or Hüll Melon for something a bit fruity? Having no experience with the yeast and little experience with saisons/farmhouse ales, I'm kind've shooting in the dark here so I could use some advice.

I would dial back the rye (I assume you mean rye malt and not flaked). I typically use 15-25%. Also don't forget the rice hulls if using higher amounts.

Haven't used Lemon Drop or Hull Melon but they sound like they would work well. Other good choices (from your sig) would be Citra or Sorachi Ace although I would keep the hops to a more background role if you're trying to get a sense of the yeast for the first time. I don't love the latter ever since someone pointed out the dill flavour and now that's all I taste.

I tend to shoot for 30-35 IBU in most of my saisons but it's to your taste.

 

[m00ps]

If all goes well, @GQT will be sending me a sample of this one in a week or two. I'm pretty excited. Brewing in a hot environment with weak fermentation control, I could definitely use another yeast (after Belle Saison) that can handle warm temps, and the flavor profile of Omega Hothead sounds pretty appealing to me for a fairly wide variety of styles.

How saison-like is it on its own? I'm thinking roughly 50/50 pils/rye mashed low, bittered in the mid-twenties and given a couple ounces of late hops - maybe Lemon Drop or Hüll Melon for something a bit fruity? Having no experience with the yeast and little experience with saisons/farmhouse ales, I'm kind've shooting in the dark here so I could use some advice.

Omega on its own is pretty much a fruit bowl. It almost tastes like a 100% brettanomyces beer but less weird funky esters floating around. You could definitely make a great saison with just that, but one of the most successful ones I've done to date was WY3711/Hothead. Belle Saison is similar enough to 3711 that I think it would turn out much the same. The 3711 got it to finish very low and have a crisp bite at the end where the hothead kind of carried the fruit flavors forward in the middle. I think this one used pacific gem and meridian.

As for the hops, I'd probably go with hull melon over lemon drop, at least with this yeast. I've used lemon drop in saisons before, I would use it sparingly, it easily gets an herbal character too it along with the citrus. Meridian (another very lemony hop) on the other hand, is great in saisons IME. Its soft sugary lemon works great with most saison yeasts. Hull Melon I've used a lot, but not in saisons. Its definitely not too overpowering and I think it could definitely work for a fruity, but non aggressive, saison

For the grain bill, I wouldnt go 50% Rye. Ive found if you go too much over 30%, it gives a very thick, viscous, mucus-like beer that isnt pleasant to drink. You can fix this by doing a protein rest or something. But I'd definitely add cane sugar to help combat this effect too. Maybe 50%pils/ 30%rye / 15%flaked something / 5% cane sugar

 

[jmill]

Curious if anyone here has used WLP568 for their saison? I picked up a vial of it to do a saison this weekend so I can take advantage of the TX heat before it gets in triple digits.

White Labs advertises it as a Belgian Ale and Saison blend that balances out some of their other fruit-heavy offerings and also is a quicker to complete fermentation than some of the others.

 

[m00ps]

Curious if anyone here has used WLP568 for their saison? I picked up a vial of it to do a saison this weekend so I can take advantage of the TX heat before it gets in triple digits.

White Labs advertises it as a Belgian Ale and Saison blend that balances out some of their other fruit-heavy offerings and also is a quicker to complete fermentation than some of the others.

DISCLAIMER - I have never used this yeast blend. Feel free to disregard as needed
http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/components-of-wl-568-saison-blend.22443/
Sounds like its WLP530 for the belgian part and WLP565 for the saison part. This would make sense given the reports of the huge krausen issue (WLP530) and the spicy flavors (WLP530 & WLP565). Interestingly, that is actually what modern times uses for their Lomaland saison. Except they only use a tiny bit of WLP530

This is actually how I have been making my most successful strong belgians. I usually use WY3864 (Unibroue) and pick a saison yeast to help get it very dry. WLP566 is usually my to-go since its not too farmhousey. I try to pitch 2:1 with less saison yeast. Works great for dubbels and tripels so you dont have that off putting sweet finish that so many tend to have

 

[chrilr]

That is pitching both at the start of fermentation?

 

[FatDragon]

I would dial back the rye (I assume you mean rye malt and not flaked). I typically use 15-25%. Also don't forget the rice hulls if using higher amounts.

Haven't used Lemon Drop or Hull Melon but they sound like they would work well. Other good choices (from your sig) would be Citra or Sorachi Ace although I would keep the hops to a more background role if you're trying to get a sense of the yeast for the first time. I don't love the latter ever since someone pointed out the dill flavour and now that's all I taste.

I tend to shoot for 30-35 IBU in most of my saisons but it's to your taste.

I've only used rye a couple times and since I have just enough rye malt to go 50/50 with pils and I see 50/50 base malt/wheat malt recipes a lot, I thought rye could be treated the same way. Good thing if I cut it back is that I have more for a rebrew if it turns out well.

Sorachi gives me straight dill as well, so I prefer not to use it late. Citra is delightful but seems like it would be easy to overdo - maybe a 20g whirlpool if I use it? I used a bit of late Lemon Drop in the saison I just bottled so I'll have a better idea of how I like it after I crack the first bottle in a couple days. The Hüll Melon is earmarked for late and dry hop additions in my next APA, but I'll be Stateside for a month and a half before I brew that so I can pick up more if I need to. As for IBUs, 30-35 is always a nice spot to settle in at; my inexperience with the saison style made me a bit uncertain about going that high on a saison, but if it works for you I may go there as well.

Omega on its own is pretty much a fruit bowl. It almost tastes like a 100% brettanomyces beer but less weird funky esters floating around. You could definitely make a great saison with just that, but one of the most successful ones I've done to date was WY3711/Hothead. Belle Saison is similar enough to 3711 that I think it would turn out much the same. The 3711 got it to finish very low and have a crisp bite at the end where the hothead kind of carried the fruit flavors forward in the middle. I think this one used pacific gem and meridian.

As for the hops, I'd probably go with hull melon over lemon drop, at least with this yeast. I've used lemon drop in saisons before, I would use it sparingly, it easily gets an herbal character too it along with the citrus. Meridian (another very lemony hop) on the other hand, is great in saisons IME. Its soft sugary lemon works great with most saison yeasts. Hull Melon I've used a lot, but not in saisons. Its definitely not too overpowering and I think it could definitely work for a fruity, but non aggressive, saison

For the grain bill, I wouldnt go 50% Rye. Ive found if you go too much over 30%, it gives a very thick, viscous, mucus-like beer that isnt pleasant to drink. You can fix this by doing a protein rest or something. But I'd definitely add cane sugar to help combat this effect too. Maybe 50%pils/ 30%rye / 15%flaked something / 5% cane sugar

The "fruit bowl" descriptor sounds appealing. I'll want my first Hothead brew to be pure, but I might take a gallon of the wort and ferment it with a mix of Hothead and Belle Saison in a separate fermenter, since I've enjoyed reading your posts here in this thread and would definitely trust your judgement as someone with a lot of experience in blending yeast for saisons.

The advice on hops and grainbill is definitely appreciated as well. Looks like I was over-shooting planning for 50/50. What differences have you seen between flaked oats, barley, and rye? Ingredient lists often use the same descriptors for all three so I don't really know if I should just go with oats because they're easiest to get (supermarket versus ordering online) or if there are strong arguments for using flaked barley or rye versus oats.

 

[m00ps]

That is pitching both at the start of fermentation?

For the strong belgians I was talking about? Yeah

The only times I delay the pitching of a second yeast is when I want to minimize flavor impact from the yeast. With those, I pick a strain that will work with the overall character of the beer im shooting for

 

[m00ps]

I've only used rye a couple times and since I have just enough rye malt to go 50/50 with pils and I see 50/50 base malt/wheat malt recipes a lot, I thought rye could be treated the same way. Good thing if I cut it back is that I have more for a rebrew if it turns out well.

Sorachi gives me straight dill as well, so I prefer not to use it late. Citra is delightful but seems like it would be easy to overdo - maybe a 20g whirlpool if I use it? I used a bit of late Lemon Drop in the saison I just bottled so I'll have a better idea of how I like it after I crack the first bottle in a couple days. The Hüll Melon is earmarked for late and dry hop additions in my next APA, but I'll be Stateside for a month and a half before I brew that so I can pick up more if I need to. As for IBUs, 30-35 is always a nice spot to settle in at; my inexperience with the saison style made me a bit uncertain about going that high on a saison, but if it works for you I may go there as well.



The "fruit bowl" descriptor sounds appealing. I'll want my first Hothead brew to be pure, but I might take a gallon of the wort and ferment it with a mix of Hothead and Belle Saison in a separate fermenter, since I've enjoyed reading your posts here in this thread and would definitely trust your judgement as someone with a lot of experience in blending yeast for saisons.

The advice on hops and grainbill is definitely appreciated as well. Looks like I was over-shooting planning for 50/50. What differences have you seen between flaked oats, barley, and rye? Ingredient lists often use the same descriptors for all three so I don't really know if I should just go with oats because they're easiest to get (supermarket versus ordering online) or if there are strong arguments for using flaked barley or rye versus oats.

I havent used flaked barley in a saison before and I've only used oats once in one, but I have experience using them in various other styles. What they all have in common seems to be that they help with body and head retention. This is just my personal experience with each:

Flaked barley - least flavor contribution (basically zero compared to regular ol' 2 row) but most head retention, decent body. I use 1lb of this in about every stout I make

Flaked Rye - has that signature Rye spicy flavor, im guessing it can impart that same gloopy body if used in large amount like regular malted rye

Flaked oats - biggest body contribution, gives a slick mouthfeel to the beer, least head retention of the 3. I think the bit of oils that are usually in them contributes to the mouthfeel and a bit less help with head retention.

Rye - regular malted rye has the most spicy flavor contribution. It definitely helps with body/head a bit like wheat does, but not as much as their flaked forms.


Really, any of them work in a saison. You just might not want to go up to 50% of them. I've done a sour that was a bit over 50% wheat/flaked wheat, but that was to make sure it was not too thin since I knew it was finishing below 1.000.

 

[trav77]

You can definitely go 50-60% wheat although that is generally more typical of a weizen or witbier. Rye has high levels of beta glucan that will make your beer fairly slick if used in high proportion. Plus it has a stronger flavour than wheat.

Who knows maybe a 50% rye beer is delicious. Personally I like it as a secondary flavour. Really in saison I want the yeast to stand out.

 

[m00ps]

updates:

WLP585 & INISBC-291 / WLP585 & Omega Hothead
After letting both of these mature, and having other brewers try them, the 585/291 is the standout. This was the first beer I used spelt in and I can definitely taste its contribution to the final product in the slightly nutty finish. The 585/hothead one used flaked wheat and flaked corn. The other difference is that the spelt one used a small amount of noble-ish hops while the latter used a decent amount of pacific gem and motueka.

So, in rare fashion for my avant garde style of brewing, I've decided to do another iteration of each of these blends with the same grain bill as a sort of semi-controlled experiment. I decided to go with using spelt for both of them. I'm using noble-type hops in order to be able to taste the yeast as much as I can. I brewed the 585/291 version over the weekend.


WLP565 & INISBC-291
I didn;t really know what to expect from this one. Its currently fully carbed but still tastes a bit young. The flavor is definitely more towards the 291 and has a bit of bubblegum going on which I think will fade. I do get some spice in the middle from the 565 though


WLP585 / YB Wallonian Farmhouse
This was the pink peppercorn saison. I thought the tart berry flavors of 585 would go great with the pink peppercorns since they actually are some sort of berry. I added a bit more as a dry hops of sorts because I wanted to be able to taste them more. The peppercorns seems to bring out the 585 flavors to the forefront while the finish is more smooth, spicy, and malty from the wallonian farmhouse. I'm guessing itll become more crisp and tart once it matures


WY3711 & Omega Hothead, Kiwi Farmhouse IPA
I'm nto expecting to discover too much about the yeast combo from this one since the amount of hops, plus the added kiwi fruit, will definitely cloud the yeast contribution. The sample I took at 14 days post-pitch, when I transferred onto the kiwis was nice and dry and almost like raspberry lemonade. I contribute that to the flavors I've come to expect from both of these yeasts. I bottled this over the weekend and there was a crap ton of sediment from the amount of kiwi and dry hop residue. Tried to upload a pic, but the server isnt liking it at the moment...

 

[badlee]

@m00ps
How is the 3711/Wallonian Farmhouse coming along,oh master of blends?

 

[m00ps]

@m00ps
How is the 3711/Wallonian Farmhouse coming along,oh master of blends?

This is the 3rd time I tried this blend out if memory serves right. The last 2 times it ended up super dry (as youd expect given those two yeasts) with a crisp ginger-ale bite at the end. I figure this one will do the same since I didnt really change up the recipe. A lot of flaked stuff to help the body out and stuff.

I need to try another, but the last one had more carb on it and less green flavors. Im not sure why this one is taking longer. At first I figured it may have just been a mistake I made on carbing it, but the fact that its a bit undercarbed and has those young saison flavors makes me think its just being slow for some reason

 

[badlee]

Cheers very much m00ps for that reply and every post you have made.
Makes me envious of people who can easily get their hands on so many wicked strains.

 

[hopbrad]

Curious if anyone here has used WLP568 for their saison? I picked up a vial of it to do a saison this weekend so I can take advantage of the TX heat before it gets in triple digits.

White Labs advertises it as a Belgian Ale and Saison blend that balances out some of their other fruit-heavy offerings and also is a quicker to complete fermentation than some of the others.

I used it a while back. it was nice. from what i remember, more spice then fruit. I started it around 75, then moved it to the garage at 85-90.

 

[GQT]

Hi @m00ps, just wanted to say thanks for your suggestion about midnight wheat. Opened the first bottle last afternoon.
It went on HotHead solo.
Quite a success. I would even say there is something of a stout in this beer! However it is very characteristically wheat, very refreshing and with a hint of sour (6 lemons were slaughtered at the altar, plus a ton of orange and pomelo zest), altogether a great great great summer night beer. Will repeat it with 3711, and might drop some Irish Ale yeast into it as well, just to push that stoutish note a bit up.

 

[m00ps]

Hi @m00ps, just wanted to say thanks for your suggestion about midnight wheat. Opened the first bottle last afternoon.
It went on HotHead solo.
Quite a success. I would even say there is something of a stout in this beer! However it is very characteristically wheat, very refreshing and with a hint of sour (6 lemons were slaughtered at the altar, plus a ton of orange and pomelo zest), altogether a great great great summer night beer. Will repeat it with 3711, and might drop some Irish Ale yeast into it as well, just to push that stoutish note a bit up.

Cool, glad your black saison experiment turned out well. That's a bunch of citrus in there. I bet that contributed a lot to the soury finish but also probably tipped it more towards a saison finish. I have added citrus to some of mine, but havent tried it in a dark one yet. Seems like a good idea

 

[m00ps]

updates:

latest WY3711 & YB Wallonian Farmhouse:
This is the one that was puzzling me since it was still a bit undercarbed after 4wks. Its carbed up nicely by now and has some of the same characteristics i've come to expect from this blend (lemony flavors and crisp ginger bite in the finish), but its also got some different ones. I'm not sure if its the hops I used (southern cross vs sorachi ace, but only a bit) or what, but its got a creamy vanilla, almost lemon meringue finish to it. Even the head is reminds me of meringue. Its odd, considering it finished at 0.998 and is a whopping 8.1%. Im guessing a month or so down the road it will shift more towards what I expect, but its really interesting right now where its at.

YB Wallonian Farmhouse & WLP585 + pink peppercorns
I ended up adding a total of 1.5oz of pink peppercorns to this. 1oz at flameout and 0.5oz in the fermentor after sampling. I couldve added more without going overboard, the flavor is definitely there though. I wouldnt recommend using this much if you are using regular black peppercorns though.The pink ones are much less spicy and more light and fruity. Perfect for a saison. The WLP585 tart berry flavors work very well with the pink peppercorns (which I also found out are actually berries so go figure). The YB Wallonian farmhouse rounds out the finish so it isnt too tart but more smooth and a bit spicy. I definitely want to check out this idea more

WLP565 & INISBC-291
This one seems pretty middle of the road to me. Nice balance of fruit/spice and a hint of funk. A friends said it almost tasted like a wild ale, but I dont really see it. I used EXP527 hops and Rye in it, which I definitely think contributed to the spice. I think without both of those, it would lean more towards berry-fruit with a bit of spice

WY3711 & Hothead + kiwis + HOPS
This was my kiwi farmhouse IPA. The final color wasnt as weird and green as I expected from the look of it in the fermentor. There is definitely a bit of kiwi in the middle of the flavor as you take a sip, but it finishes dry and lemony. Pretty hard to discern the actual yeast contribution under all the tropical hops and fruit, but the finish I can definitely pick up 3711.

Im retrying a few of my favorite blends so far to see how they turn out. Switched a few small things with each, but shouldnt be enough to cloud the yeast character. I've got these fermenting right now. I think I'm finally narrowing down my favorite strains, although I still need to grab some WY3726 and that yeast bay kviek one that sounds similar to Hothead.
- WLP585 & INISBC-291
- Hothead & WLP585
- Hothead & INISBC-291

 

[Braufessor]

Hey @m00ps

Just saw this thread. I am planning on making a couple saisons over the rest of the summer as temps become more cooperative for fermenting it. I have only brewed a couple saisons. One was really awesome.... of course, it was a "second runnings" beer that I did as an after thought with 2 or 3 "out of date" yeasts I picked up at the home-brew store. And, of course, I took no notes on it...... Can't even remember what yeast (s) for sure. I am pretty sure one of them was a french saison yeast of some sort.

At any rate..... what I am looking for is a Saison that is dry (although not necessarily bone dry), crisp, clean, some citrus, slight pepper......

I don't want any banana, clove or phenolic flavors.

The yeasts that have kind of caught my eye so far are WL565, Wyeast 3711, Wyeast 3724

More than likely I will be chilling to mid 60's, and allowing free rise to higher temps. Probably start at cooler ambient temp and move to higher ambient temp. after a day or two. This is what I did the other time as well. I won't be "heating" it up to 85+.

I would appreciate any advice or suggestions as to a couple yeasts that would put me in the ball park of what I am shooting for.
Thanks

 

[badlee]

Thanks for the updates m00ps

 

[tgmartin000]

Hey @m00ps

Just saw this thread. I am planning on making a couple saisons over the rest of the summer as temps become more cooperative for fermenting it. I have only brewed a couple saisons. One was really awesome.... of course, it was a "second runnings" beer that I did as an after thought with 2 or 3 "out of date" yeasts I picked up at the home-brew store. And, of course, I took no notes on it...... Can't even remember what yeast (s) for sure. I am pretty sure one of them was a french saison yeast of some sort.

At any rate..... what I am looking for is a Saison that is dry (although not necessarily bone dry), crisp, clean, some citrus, slight pepper......

I don't want any banana, clove or phenolic flavors.

The yeasts that have kind of caught my eye so far are WL565, Wyeast 3711, Wyeast 3724

More than likely I will be chilling to mid 60's, and allowing free rise to higher temps. Probably start at cooler ambient temp and move to higher ambient temp. after a day or two. This is what I did the other time as well. I won't be "heating" it up to 85+.

I would appreciate any advice or suggestions as to a couple yeasts that would put me in the ball park of what I am shooting for.
Thanks

3711 will get you what you're looking for. 565/3724 are harder to work with and might not dry out as much.

 

[m00ps]

Hey @m00ps

Just saw this thread. I am planning on making a couple saisons over the rest of the summer as temps become more cooperative for fermenting it. I have only brewed a couple saisons. One was really awesome.... of course, it was a "second runnings" beer that I did as an after thought with 2 or 3 "out of date" yeasts I picked up at the home-brew store. And, of course, I took no notes on it...... Can't even remember what yeast (s) for sure. I am pretty sure one of them was a french saison yeast of some sort.

At any rate..... what I am looking for is a Saison that is dry (although not necessarily bone dry), crisp, clean, some citrus, slight pepper......

I don't want any banana, clove or phenolic flavors.

The yeasts that have kind of caught my eye so far are WL565, Wyeast 3711, Wyeast 3724

More than likely I will be chilling to mid 60's, and allowing free rise to higher temps. Probably start at cooler ambient temp and move to higher ambient temp. after a day or two. This is what I did the other time as well. I won't be "heating" it up to 85+.

I would appreciate any advice or suggestions as to a couple yeasts that would put me in the ball park of what I am shooting for.
Thanks

WY3711 or even Belle Saison comes to my mind when I think of crisp, clean, citrus. Belle saison will have a bit more spice.

WY3724 / WLP565 are pretty classic middle-of-the-road to me. If you ferment higher, youll get less spice. I get more peppery flavors from it than and hefe-like clove/banana. I would definitely steer clear of WLP566 if you dont want any somewhat hefe-like esters in the mix


A combo of the two would, in my mind, get you right about where you want to be. More classic rustic peppery flavors from the 565/3724 and the 3711 will bring out more lemon and get the finish crisp and refreshing.

Another option, if you can get it, would be Omega Saisonstein's monster. It is supposed to be a true genetic hybrid of those 2 strains. I haven't used it too recently, but it definitely had some characteristics of both those strains

 

[Braufessor]

A combo of the two would, in my mind, get you right about where you want to be. More classic rustic peppery flavors from the 565/3724 and the 3711 will bring out more lemon and get the finish crisp and refreshing.

This is the strategy I am going with. 3724/3711 combo.

2 questions -

1.) Should I make one starter, with both yeasts and add it all at once. Or, should I make two starters, and add the 3724 right away, and maybe add 3711 on day 2 or 3???

2.) If I want to brew multiple beers with this combo, do you think I am better off making the separate starters and keeping yeast separate to build up in separate starters for future brew. Or, Just harvest from the fermenter at the conclusion of fermentation and go with whatever percentage/proportion the yeasts managed to get to during fermentation?

Thanks

 

[m00ps]

This is the strategy I am going with. 3724/3711 combo.

2 questions -

1.) Should I make one starter, with both yeasts and add it all at once. Or, should I make two starters, and add the 3724 right away, and maybe add 3711 on day 2 or 3???

2.) If I want to brew multiple beers with this combo, do you think I am better off making the separate starters and keeping yeast separate to build up in separate starters for future brew. Or, Just harvest from the fermenter at the conclusion of fermentation and go with whatever percentage/proportion the yeasts managed to get to during fermentation?

Thanks

It kinda goes against the whole "farmhouse spirit", but I keep all my yeast starters separate for blending and try to do about 50/50 pitches. I made the mistake of combining a bunch early on and realized later that I wouldnt be able to pick out any of those yeasts anymore. So I would definitely keep them separate if you want to harvest some for future batches. Plus, I figure that if you pitched them both in a single starter vessel, the final pitch would be more 3711 than 3724. Then the final beer may be even more leaning towards 3711. I'll use spare growlers and stuff for starter vessels if Im short on my usual containers

Good luck man, Im sure itll turn out well

 

[bolus14]

I'm looking at making a saison this weekend and then add blueberries to half and tart cherry juice to the other half. I thought I had some 3711 in my fridge, but apparently i used that up and didn't keep any from the starter. I have 545 that I was going to combine with the 3711, not truly a saison strain but many have said it works for the style...

Any recommendations for yeast strain and amounts of the fruit/juice?

 

[Texconsinite]

Rack onto the juice/fruit in secondary. Use a few (1-3) lbs of blueberries, or about 1/2 gallon of tart cherry juice.

 

[m00ps]

I'm looking at making a saison this weekend and then add blueberries to half and tart cherry juice to the other half. I thought I had some 3711 in my fridge, but apparently i used that up and didn't keep any from the starter. I have 545 that I was going to combine with the 3711, not truly a saison strain but many have said it works for the style...

Any recommendations for yeast strain and amounts of the fruit/juice?

Isnt 545 the Rochefort strain? I think that 3711 would go well with it. Its got a lot of dark fruit and berry flavors and 3711 will brighten it up.

The fruit juice / blueberries is an interesting idea. It will definitely stress the 545 flavors, but shouldnt bring about any additional sweetness. How large of a batch are you splitting?

I've added a couple different berries/fruit to beers and IME, you need AT LEAST 3lbs per 5gal batch to get any sort of noticeable contribution. I don't know about the juice itself though

 

[bolus14]

545 is a hard one to pin down, supposedly from a brewery in the Ardennes region, but is different than the Wyeast Ardennes strain.

I'm planning to brew a 5.5 or 6 gal batch, still playing with the numbers.
I have read the same about fruit, especially blueberries. I was planning of using around 3lbs for the half that I use them in.
For the cherry juice I've read that 64oz is noticeable in a 5 gal batch so I was planning to use 32 for this.

 

[brewski09]

545 is a hard one to pin down, supposedly from a brewery in the Ardennes region, but is different than the Wyeast Ardennes strain.

I'm planning to brew a 5.5 or 6 gal batch, still playing with the numbers.
I have read the same about fruit, especially blueberries. I was planning of using around 3lbs for the half that I use them in.
For the cherry juice I've read that 64oz is noticeable in a 5 gal batch so I was planning to use 32 for this.

I like a 2ish lb per gallon for blueberries (or more - my mead has half of the fermentables coming from blueberries). Blueberries are a soft/delicate flavor to get to come through.

 

[StopTakingMyUsername]

Awesome, man!
Saisons are one of my favorite styles to brew.
Our culture has been primary with wallonian, followed by secondary with a mix of Brett and cantillon bugs.
Getting very dry, lemony, bright, acidity in a couple months, then bottle conditioning with a touch of the same Brett for some intense, expressive funk aromas.

I'm very curious about adding in the 3711 now.
I've never been a huge fan of intense peppercorn, bubblegum, or clovey flavors though.
Did you find the 3711/wallonian mix to throw those off?
I suppose I could try the mix and hold temp in the mid-high 70s though...

 

[popsicleian]

It kinda goes against the whole "farmhouse spirit", but I keep all my yeast starters separate for blending and try to do about 50/50 pitches. I made the mistake of combining a bunch early on and realized later that I wouldnt be able to pick out any of those yeasts anymore. So I would definitely keep them separate if you want to harvest some for future batches. Plus, I figure that if you pitched them both in a single starter vessel, the final pitch would be more 3711 than 3724. Then the final beer may be even more leaning towards 3711. I'll use spare growlers and stuff for starter vessels if Im short on my usual containers

Good luck man, Im sure itll turn out well

I haven't read through the whole thread, but have you had any experience using 2nd (or later) generation 3724/3711 slurry? I harvested slurry from my last batch, for which I originally pitched 3724, then 3711 once it stalled. This weekend I brewed an all-pilsner malt saison with styrian goldings and hallertau hops. I'm wondering what I should expect in terms of yeast character from the 2nd gen harvested stuff. I did a vitality starter with a pretty generous amount of slurry.

Also, is it safe to assume that if I keep harvesting and repitching slurry it will trend towards a 3711 flavor over time, given its attenuative properties?