Experienced with gluten problems, confused beer beginner

[Lcasanova]

Try the wet t-shirt over the fermenter method

 

[DKershner]

Lol, 4 accidental 11% beers, fun!

In any case, champagne yeast should be a last ditch effort as it will ruin your experiment and make the beer very thin (although I am not sure it isn't already ruined since you wont want to drink these for about a year).

As for progress from here, let these suckers go...for a LONG time. I have had fermentations take 30 days up at that range, and I wouldn't be surprised if yours took longer since you didn't take any steps to prepare the wort or do staggered sugar additions or anything. Let it sit for 30 days minimum before you even look at these things again.

After that, take a hydro reading and see what you have (take note of the temperature this time). If it seems reasonable, then let it sit for another month or so and then bottle it. You may add some yeast when you bottle in order to be sure it carbonates.

In any case, your Barleywine Reserve series should be interesting to taste come this time next year, but I wouldn't really touch em before then.

Cheers!

 

[KevinM]

Here's a small sorghum test in a popcorn popper. I used 4 oz of (hulled?) White Sorghum for 6 minutes. I'm not sure what I've acheived other than finding out that sorghum makes a nice mini popcorn which has an interesting taste.

 

[KevinM]

Here's a better comparison shot of the Sorghum. The Sorghum was purchased from a local asian mart that has two pound bags for 2.79.

Again, it was only able to be roasted in a popcorn popper for 6 minutes and I didn't think I could go longer since it was starting to pop.

I did try some oats (Probably not gluten free) as a similar test, but these I only roasted in the same popper for 4-5 minutes and got a darker coloration from them.

I'm still searching the forums to see what roasted unmalted grains actually do (other than toasty flavors) to compare. I know that Lcasanova has roasted buckwheat in the Brown Ale and I've seen aggieotis mention a roasted millet but it was mashed.
Any of you know the difference between Not malted but roasted:
Oats
Sorghum
Millet
Quinoa
Amaranth
Rice
Buckwheat
Coffee
Cocoa beans
And everything else?
(Yes, I've found a local source for dried fermented cocoa beans which means I can roast that to any degree I'd want, but I think I'll just get the roasted nibs from them.)

As for coffee, I would think the results can vary based on the coffee source and degree of roast. For normal drinking, the coffee process: wet-process, dry-process, country, region, farm, location on the farm itself. Body, brightness, acidity. How does this affect the taste in the resulting beer? Will my Guatemala Fraijanes - Finca Agua Tibia with it's chocolate overtones be different than my Costa Rican Lourdes de Naranjo - Finca Genesis with it's lemon-honey and dried fruit notes or Aged Sumatran Lintong Peaberry with it's expected peppery sweetness?

I hope to be able to do coffee in beer comparision, I'm considering doing some roasts and steep it in both cold water and add some vodka, and steep directly in vodka to see if there's any difference at all, or due to the resulting dilution (which using per DKeshner's Stout is looking at most 1oz per gallon and likely .1oz per gallon) may mean that I'll be going "...Yeah, I taste coffee..." (And I'll dig in the forum to see if anyone else has details on it.)

 

[DKershner]

"...Yeah, I taste coffee..."

OK, you said a lot in that post, I will try to get to everything I wanted to say.

Roast No Malt: This is essentially the same thing as "steeping" in extract recipes. This process adds a very small amount of sugar, some minor amount of flavor, and a lot of color. Mashing (malted grains or amylase) on the other hand, adds lots of sugar, lots of flavor, and the same amount of color.

Grain list: I think oats have to be mashed, or else you will get a ton of starches. The rest can probably be steeped so long as they are uncracked. Except...

Coffee: Do not put whole coffee beans in beer, the oils will run havoc on head retention and carbonation in general will feel different due to the surface oil. Ground coffee is usable, but is very powerful stuff (as you seem to have read my notes). Check out my GF merriment as well, I used much less and it is still very noticeable. I used French Roast Starbucks.

I assume that different coffees will have different effects, but I am trying to get the amount dialed in before I try different types. My advice is to guess way low and add more if it isn't enough. I did the opposite.

 

[Lcasanova]

Grain list: I think oats have to be mashed, or else you will get a ton of starches. The rest can probably be steeped so long as they are uncracked.

I always crack all the grains I have roasted and used for steeping. I tried an experiment with the black rice that I roasted and found that I got more color when I cracked them versus when I didn't. More surface area maybe? The only real difference I noticed before I started cracking the grains, is that I sometimes get more sediment than I usually do.

 

[DKershner]

I always crack all the grains I have roasted and used for steeping. I tried an experiment with the black rice that I roasted and found that I got more color when I cracked them versus when I didn't. More surface area maybe? The only real difference I noticed before I started cracking the grains, is that I sometimes get more sediment than I usually do.

The color might be imparted quicker, but the end result should be the same unless there is something dark inside the grain. The real problem I see with cracking non-mashed grains is the release of a bunch of starches that are not fermentable. In small amounts, you may not notice, but it would probably cloud up your beer and raise your FG, moreso the more grain you do it with.

 

[KevinM]

That helps a ton. I couldn't seem to come up with the terminology of "steeping." Once given, a whole lot was found. I suppose this means that I could germinate and dry and roast, without having to actually go through mashing to give some results that perhaps wouldn't be as detrimental as steeping with unmalted grains. (It'll be a few days while I read through everything).

As for coffee, while I'm very interested in the results, I think you're right. While the same amounts of different varieties and blends of coffee may be different at the single dialed in level, I don't think it would affect the flavor to such a degree that there would be much varience in amount needed. I think we agree that it somehow needs to be cold brewed, or have the oils removed.

 

[KevinM]

I used 2 oz of the roasted whole oats and didn't really see too great a color change, compared to either my first or second gallon. However, I may be comparing it to the batch where I had added a touch of molasses which caused a deeper color.

.3 oz Columbus hops (60 min)
2 oz roasted oats (45 min) to find out what happens
1.47 lbs Sorghum syrup.
Lactose (I have it written down how much somewhere, but not with me) for sweetness.
English Ale Yeast

How it comes out in the primary will determine if I want to try adding any cocoa nibs and/or vanilla & coffee to the secondary for flavor and color.

While the toasted oats didn't seem to cause any significant effect I guess I'll find out later. It does seem that I can sprout or malt them before roasting if necessary.

 

[KevinM]

After a taste test, I really didn't get anything noticible from the chocolate nibs, which surprised me. I did taste a tiny sample of the chocolate vodka before it went in which tasted pretty good, so I may up the nibs. I didn't notice anything good or bad from the oats, so if I ever understand mashing/partial mashing, I'll try that. If I'm possibly understanding anything, I think it's that alpha amalayse will mostly leave a fuller bodied, sweeter beer from unconvertable sugars, while the elusive beta makes it drier. If that's correct.
I added a full 8 ounce of a medium roast, cold brewed coffee (Which particular variety, I can't recall at the moment). And that flavor came through, but surprisingly, not heavily at all. I was rather concerned about the coffee originally.


I've also noticed that my notes have not been specifying between using Sorghum syrups. I've actually found that I've been mixing up the Sorghum Syrup 45DE High Maltose, and the Sorghum Syrup 60DE that my LHBS has been offering. We think it's just been one of those items that has been there for a while and only a few people are using it. They think I'm pretty much the main person.

From Briess's website, I am having trouble seeing what the difference is. Does it mean that it was done at a higher conversion, and that there is more resulting fermentable sugars which will wind up giving less body?

 

[DKershner]

After a taste test, I really didn't get anything noticible from the chocolate nibs, which surprised me. I did taste a tiny sample of the chocolate vodka before it went in which tasted pretty good, so I may up the nibs. I didn't notice anything good or bad from the oats, so if I ever understand mashing/partial mashing, I'll try that. If I'm possibly understanding anything, I think it's that alpha amalayse will mostly leave a fuller bodied, sweeter beer from unconvertable sugars, while the elusive beta makes it drier. If that's correct.
I added a full 8 ounce of a medium roast, cold brewed coffee (Which particular variety, I can't recall at the moment). And that flavor came through, but surprisingly, not heavily at all. I was rather concerned about the coffee originally.


I've also noticed that my notes have not been specifying between using Sorghum syrups. I've actually found that I've been mixing up the Sorghum Syrup 45DE High Maltose, and the Sorghum Syrup 60DE that my LHBS has been offering. We think it's just been one of those items that has been there for a while and only a few people are using it. They think I'm pretty much the main person.

From Briess's website, I am having trouble seeing what the difference is. Does it mean that it was done at a higher conversion, and that there is more resulting fermentable sugars which will wind up giving less body?

You have the right idea, but may have it backwards.

45DE is more fermentable, and is mashed lower. 60DE is less fermentable. Most people in LHBS's have the 45DE.

 

[KevinM]

Ok, yup, I did have it backwards thinking that 45hm was somehow less fermentable than 60DE (even if it wasn't clear in the post). Makes sense that most people have 45 since the other is now on special order, which makes me wonder how old the stuff I'm using is. Unfortunately this means that due to my sloppy note taking, I'm not sure which batch used which, guess that means I should start over and brew a bit more to catch up.
Perhaps I'll pick up more of the 60 and work with it on my darker ales, and use the 45s for the lager I was attempting. I know I used a 60 for this last one and it's still noticibly darker than my first accidental lager yeast batch.

In the meantime, I sprouted some oats but failed to sprout some buckwheat (smelly) so I'll try that again with a fresh set to see if I can later toast them for a different type of steepable grain.

 

[KevinM]

Another oat roast, not the sprouted attempt, but just plain Gluten free steel cut. (I needed something for breakfast at work.)

I'm going to try what I did before, based of of the chocolate stout, as well as the recent trials by both Lcasanova and chilort.

I'm not sure how much of the oats to use though and I've only toasted about 1/3 of a pound, minus some losses from trying to transfer from different sheet pans. I'm looking at either a 1 gallon using about half the amount, or a 5 gallon, perhaps toasting the remaining 1/3 pound. (5 gallon mostly because I'll have the S-04 yeast available from a plain IPA.) I expect that if I do a 1 gallon, I wouldn't need all of it.

Beyond that for a 1 pound batch (matches up to a 5 pound batch)
1.4 lbs of sorghum probably 45HM
1/2 ounce of cocoa powder (60) - bitterness
Undecided hops (60) - bitterness aiming for 20IBU, looking at bullion & fuggles but it'll depend on what I can get at the LHBS.
I'm still considering a few ounces of either molasses or buckwheat honey. My very first batch had less than an ounce of unsulphured molasses, but my brother and I found that we could taste the mineral flavor of the molasses. (But then, it could potentially be because of my high carbonate water, or even accidentally using 60DE)
1.5 oz lactose
(still considering 1 oz maltodextrin)
irish moss

1/2 ounce cocoa powder primary (with vodka)
4 oz cocoa nibs secondary (with vodka)
8 oz cold brewed coffee secondary
this time, perhaps I'll remember a bit of vanilla bean in the secondary too.

 

[KevinM]

It finished and well... due to some mistakes didn't turn out too well. I haven't bothered with coffee, lactose or maltodextrin in this one yet. And I used a touch of molasses. The problem was that I added too much liquid winding up with about 7 gallons for what was supposed to be a 5 gallon batch.

I'll try again, but this time top up rather than expecting boiloff and take into account greater amounts of liquid from the partial mash attempt.

There's flavor there, but it's diluted. Chocolate and the roast notes from the oats. (Really smelled kind of burnt despite resting for a few weeks. And I took sniff tests in the room where it was in to smell it slowly reducing.)