Examining possible solutions to issue of sulfur smell from Perlick 650ss faucets

[sctcts]

The safest thing is to not use Starsan. Use something like Beer Line Cleaner which is meant to be in contact with this equipment.

Beer line cleaner is not a sanitizer, it's a cleaner, there is a difference. One could argue you're being less safe since you could be harbouring microorganisms in your lines! I'm being a bit facetious, there shouldn't be anything growing in your lines that isn't in your beer unless you're leaving them empty and exposed to atmosphere.

If you're really worried about it, you could use IOstar or one of the other non-acid sanitizers out there. I'm not 100% sure IOstar isn't acidic though, it's just the only other sanitizer that comes to mind

With respect to @sctcts you can find anyone on the Internet willing to tell you what you want to do is fine. It might be that you'd get away with it.

Lol true, I did mention it was in my experience. This is a forum, basically everything is anecdotal and should be taken with some question.

 

[LBussy]

Beer line cleaner is not a sanitizer, it's a cleaner, there is a difference.

True. Although, it's primary effective ingredient is Potassium Hydroxide and KOH itself is considered a disinfectant (Römpp Chemie-Lexikon, 9th Ed.) at solutions as weak as 0.1% (Journal of Food Protection, Vol. 69, No. 7, 2006). I'm at work and don't have a bottle handy so I can't determine if the recommended dilution would qualify.

Lol true, I did mention it was in my experience. This is a forum, basically everything is anecdotal and should be taken with some question.

Thanks for taking that in the spirit in which it was intended.

 

[Justintoxicated]

The safest thing is to not use Starsan. Use something like Beer Line Cleaner which is meant to be in contact with this equipment. With respect to @sctcts you can find anyone on the Internet willing to tell you what you want to do is fine. It might be that you'd get away with it. In my mind however there's a chemical reaction taking place whether I'm really quick about it or not. Eventually that will catch up with me. If I avoid it, especially after going through all the trouble to eliminate the issue in the first place, it just makes more sense and provides more peace of mind.

How pissed would you be if you had to disassemble everything and re-passivate the tap later on because you used Starsan for sanitizing?


Beer is acidic, some beers more so. If you don't have the smells then you don't have to (re)passivate but just running some beverages through the tap is enough to cause the issue for a lot of us.

I rarely have issues when I use the right tool for the job, be it a screwdriver, a hammer, a wrench, or beer line cleaner. When I was a child I thought a steak knife was a multitool. My projects go much better now that I have the right tools.

BLC is very expensive, its almost cheaper to replace all my lines than clean with BLC lol.

BLC is a cleaner not a sanitizer.

My processes for clean and sanatizing keg, lines and tap is to run blc throught hem, then run starsan through them. I don't think beer line cleaner is a sanitizer, but even if it is it is expensive and complicates things. I then need to find a new way to pump starsan through the the diptube int eh keg using a seperate tap, then I need to buy a pump or something to run the BLC through the lines and ball lock connections (which means I probably need to buy or make some kind of manifold with ballock fittings on it so I can clean the full line, or run the BLC before I run starsan through the keg, which also doubles the amount of work (3 things I have to run), plus my lines will still not be sanitized.

edit: oops just realized I was repeating the above!

 

[LBussy]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you ... if you already run BLC through your lines, why does that make three things you need to do? Why would it be more expensive?

 

[Justintoxicated]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you ... if you already run BLC through your lines, why does that make three things you need to do? Why would it be more expensive?

I bought some BLC but have never used it, seems it's made to be mixed as 1 gallon batch, then cycled through the system with a pump.

I clean my lines by filling kegs of PBW or starsan and pumping it through the lines as I also shake it around in the keg. As of late though, when I see a dirty line I just replace it, it's easier and cheaper than cleaning them.

 

[LBussy]

I use my BLC in the same manner as you do - mix it, store in a keg, and pressure through the lines as needed. I should note that I use a hand-pump from an old keg tap to do this. Even though I've never heard of it happening, it's "chemically possible" that dissolved CO2 and an alkali cleaner will react. In theory this could happen with PBW or any of the other caustics.

BLC (and removing beerstone in general) calls for a 15 minute soak so I run it till it starts to come through, close the tap and let it sit, then 15 minutes later I rinse. I also put a few drops of food coloring in it so I know when it runs through and when it's cleared out.

Beerstone will build up eventually in your taps and connectors even if you are replacing your lines. You need a longer soak with alkali or acid solutions to dissolve beerstone. Since we've already said a long soak with Starsan is bad, that leaves an alkali solution as your best bet with these taps.

My $0.02 anyway.

 

[sctcts]

In case some aren't aware, 5 Star Chemical PBW is NOT the same as National Chemical BLC. PBW is a non-caustic cleaner, while BLC is a caustic cleaner. PBW is mostly silicates, phosphates, and surfactants according to the SDS sheet and is an oxygen-generating cleaner according to people on the internet. BLC is similar to the NaOH used for cleaning in passivation, BLC contains KOH as LBussy mentioned earlier. I was previously confused since 5 star's website lists it as Beverage Line Cleaner/PBW – apparently Beverage Line Cleaner is an old name for PBW or something.

I don't have my bottle of BLC anymore, but I am pretty sure it called for 15 minute recirculation through the lines rather than just a soak. Makes sense to me that some mechanical agitation would help loosen beerstone and other buildup.

As of late though, when I see a dirty line I just replace it, it's easier and cheaper than cleaning them.

I agree, even though I have all the equipment for cleaning my lines (pump w/ manifold), I'm thinking of just going back to replacing lines when they get too dirty since it's cheaper and I don't have to spend an hour cleaning (10 min setup cleaning, 15 min BLC circulation, 5 min water change, 15 min rinse water circulation, 10 min teardown cleaning/reconnect kegs).

Beerstone will build up eventually in your taps and connectors even if you are replacing your lines. You need a longer soak with alkali or acid solutions to dissolve beerstone. Since we've already said a long soak with Starsan is bad, that leaves an alkali solution as your best bet with these taps.

This is true about needing to clean connectors but I don't think starsan will dissolve beerstone no matter how long you leave it, that's definitely not it's intended purpose. People should be using a proper cleaner for removing buildup, but ya, alkali-based cleaners are safest with these taps.

 

[day_trippr]

Yup, the BLC label does call for recirculation...

I have a manifold-based cleaning rig that'll recirculate through all six faucets and lines in parallel.
I basically get it running then go back to work for a half-hour before draining and running a rinse cycle...

Cheers!

 

[thomash]

After reading through 20 plus pages on this thread, I have one question. Are the 650ss faucets worth the extra expense? If you had to do it over again, would you get them?

 

[Justintoxicated]

After reading through 20 plus pages on this thread, I have one question. Are the 650ss faucets worth the extra expense? If you had to do it over again, would you get them?

I was thinking about getting some more. I keep a keg of carbonated water with citrus zest and lemon juice (home made La Croix) on tap, and this is when I noticed the sulfur smell. After a few kegs it went away on it's own. (or maybe it was due to passivating the tap via PBW then starsam, enough times.) I decided to re-passivate anyways because I never did anything with the second tap that just had a brown ale on it and it never had the issue due to what I was serving. The flow control is great for the carbonated water because I can push high pressure to the keg and keep the restriction low without excessive length of beer line.
passivating

I also found the flow control great if you get the growler fillers, it allows you to fill slowly without messing with purging the tank and wasting CO2. I thought about replacing all taps with the flow controls but I probably wouldn't suggest doing that, but it depends what your serving I suppose. I still like them, but there's certainly room for improvement.

I did not care for the intertaps with flow control. They did not have the sulfur problem but the perls are better quality.

 

[LBussy]

After reading through 20 plus pages on this thread, I have one question. Are the 650ss faucets worth the extra expense? If you had to do it over again, would you get them?

I bought three more after passivating my first two.

 

[fun4stuff]

I'm happy with them! Definitely better than my first tap which didn't have flow control and would stick if I didn't clean it after each pour.

 

[Justintoxicated]

Just a heads up, I ran starsan through the tap I passivated and have no sulfur smell with my citris infused carbonated water. I wouldn't let them soak in starsan though. YMMV

 

[Froyd]

Do the newer 650ss still have the problem? My old one never quite got completely rid of the bad odor, despite going through the lye/citric acid treatment. I really like the functionality, but I'm hesitant buying a second one now that I'm looking to get a double tap tower.

 

[fun4stuff]

Do the newer 650ss still have the problem? My old one never quite got completely rid of the bad odor, despite going through the lye/citric acid treatment. I really like the functionality, but I'm hesitant buying a second one now that I'm looking to get a double tap tower.

The new ones don't have this problem. The lye/citric acid treatment worked for me so i bought 3 new ones a year ago and was going to do the same thing. Somewhere I read that they fixed the issue. Also when you take it apart, there are a couple parts that look a little different.

I'll edit this post if i can remember where i read this...

Edit:
So, i think after i noticed some of the internal parts looked different i realized that the 650ss are being advertised as now using new 304 steel rather than 303 (which was likely the cause of the problem). Then came across multiple reddit posts with people saying new ones didn't have the problem.

Specifically what is different (other than the washer/oring being a diff color):
The flow control levers on the old ones turn 90 degrees (flow 100% open to flow 100% closed). The flow control levers on the new ones turn 270 degrees (closed to open to closed, front to back).

I started looking at why this is and it appears the flow compensator (diagram here: https://www.morebeer.com/images/file.php?file_id=3061) on the old ones sticks out more in the on position that prevents the 270 deg rotation when attached to the shank.

 

[kiwipen]

Could you post pictures showing the difference between the new and old ones?

 

[fun4stuff]

Could you post pictures showing the difference between the new and old ones?

I edited my post above. They now use "new 304 steel".

Its a bit early for me to take apart my taps, but i took a video showing the flow control lever now works differently. The new one has a wider angle of rotation. The flow compensater (the half spherical metal part that sticks out the back of the tap where it would screw into the shank) on the new ones doesn't stick out as far.

https://www.homebrewing.org/Perlick-650SS-flow-control-faucet_p_4896.html

I the QA section on that site, they say it's been updated to fix sulfur taste. Also notice they say "new 304 stainless".


Here is the video:
https://imgur.com/gallery/aCqTeKQ

From the outside they otherwise look the same.

 

[LBussy]

A gentleman at Perlick reached out to me about an article on the BrewPi Remix website where I shred a passivation process. He's informed me that as of May 2017, faucets in stock at Perlick were all 304 SS which eliminated this issue. To identify the newer 304SS taps, he shared:

There should be a date code laser-etched underneath the faucet body, so the date codes ending with “17C”, “18C”, “18D”, “19D”, or “20D” will be the all 304 stainless steel construction.

I have also updated my article to reflect this information.

ETA: I removed the Perlick rep's name at his request, and published a new version of the article.

 

[cheesebach]

A gentleman at Perlick reached out to me about an article on the BrewPi Remix website where I shred a passivation process. He's informed me that as of May 2017, faucets in stock at Perlick were all 304 SS which eliminated this issue. To identify the newer 304SS taps, he shared:

I have also updated my article to reflect this information. it is still in draft form but I will re-release it shortly.

Thanks for sharing! Just to help in case anyone is wondering which version they have - the date code on my 2 faucets is "17J". They have the characteristics of the older type (90 degree rotation when put on the shank, can smell the sulfur when soaking the 303 parts in an acidic solution). Not sure why "17C" would indicate a more recent date than "17J", but that's what it looks like if "17C" is actually the updated version. I followed the passivation process on mine and haven't noticed any issues in actual use, but I haven't had any sours on tap since I did this a couple years ago.