Everything I make stalls

[Denny]

All you reported from Chris was that he said that's great and he thinks homebrewers rely on numbers too much. An ambiguous statement in regard to your methods, as well as a conversation not recorded or heard by me. You're right you only mentioned shaking once which is still an additional trip back to the starter. Plus no real instructions from you on when that might be helpful. The article I posted mentions every 2 hours but since the stir plate exceeds that and you don't follow that anyway, your counts may be less. Sorry to use numbers and facts, that's how science works. Like I said you changed three variables without isolating any single factor and are apparently attempting to present that as gospel. Great that it works for you. I'm not convinced but if you have some additional information of a more rigorous nature maybe start another thread? I've gotten to high krausen in less time than 17 hours (sorry for the number, wait that's a number you used?) but I am not going to necessarily attribute it to my methods which include using a stir plate. Could have been an external factor.

Can you help the OP or are you just here to preach your method?

If you had been in a bar in Australia last October, you would have heard what everyone else heard. So I assume you don't take any brewing advice you haven't personally heard? You shake the starter before you add the yeast...no additional shaking after that. I'm done.

 

[Denny]

That's an interesting thread over at AHA. There were 30 pages of chatter and anecdotal experience with this new technique but I couldn't find any sort of side by side evaluation. Gonna leave it to Brulosophy to do that?

No, I leave it to homebrewers to try it and see for themselves. Which is exactly what I did.

 

[Deadalus]

If you had been in a bar in Australia last October, you would have heard what everyone else heard. So I assume you don't take any brewing advice you haven't personally heard? You shake the starter before you add the yeast...no additional shaking after that. I'm done.

I'm a little leery about taking strangers' advice in foreign bars. YMMV. I also am only weakly convinced by hearsay

I bet I save 6 calories not shaking the flask and dropping in the stir bar. Sorry about the number and mentioning the stir bar.

It would of been nice if you could have helped the OP some. All you did was jump on the thread when you saw the words stir plate, (sorry again) which wasn't the issue. Do you think the fluctuating temperatures could be the underlying problem? (Maybe you don't do temperatures because of the numbers thing?) The reported temps are mid-range for that denny's favorite yeast. Who's this denny character maybe he has some insight?

 

[FloppyKnockers]

Everything I make stalls

I shall toast to the fact you don't make airplanes.

Cheers, buddy!

 

[bracconiere]

I bet I save 6 calories not shaking the flask and dropping in the stir bar.

lol, i think most people here could use more calorie burn....i save about 500+ dumping gluco in my beer

 

[dmtaylor]

I have two more things to say, then I'm out of here.

1) My previous advice above has been completely ignored. Oh well I guess.

2) The world will become a much more pleasant place to live when each and every one of us realizes that we are all idiots.

 

[eric19312]

I have two more things to say, then I'm out of here.

1) My previous advice above has been completely ignored. Oh well I guess.

2) The world will become a much more pleasant place to live when each and every one of us realizes that we are all idiots.

I’m not disagreeing with your “all idiots” comment but I don’t think a small mash temperature difference causes a mid gravity wort to only hit 43% apparent attenuation when fermented with wy-1450 but reach 1.012 — 78% apparent attenuation in the other yeast and fast ferment tests.

We should be looking for a big problem, not something to tweak.

Also OP already said he would be getting a new thermometer soon.

 

[dmtaylor]

OP already said he would be getting a new thermometer soon.

Yeah but we need to know how far off his mash thermometer really was. If his thermometer was off by like 5-6 degrees and not just a "small difference", and he mashed too hot around 159 F or whatever, then all his beta amylase is bye-bye.

And then adding 0.5 lb lactose doesn't help either.

Also, I just noticed this, with respect to the S-33 batch... well... that yeast strain only attenuates to 61% on a good wort... but he had 100% simple sugar in there (yes with nutrients but even so), which likely PO'd the wimpiest yeast on Earth even more than eating regular wort. And then adding US-05 after fermentation is already complete doesn't do much if anything. Yeast doesn't like being thrown into alcohol. It prefers to start off in 0% alcohol wort.

Lots of "big problems" here, now that I took the time to review the stuff in more detail -- sorry I didn't bother until now, but now you have it.

 

[hopjuice_71]

Microbiologist/biochemist here and I just popped in to make a comment on this "new starter" method that has been mentioned. It is essentially a vitality starter and they work great - I have used them numerous times with new commercial yeast packets and harvested yeast. It is great way of priming the yeasts' metabolism and ensuring the we pitch healthy active yeast. However, to imply that we should not be "thinking in terms of cell counts" may be myopic and certainly requires some caution. If you are intending a one-time-use of a commercial packet of yeast that contains 100-200B cells, then knock your socks off with the simple starter method. But if you plan on harvesting some of your starter for future use, say 500 ml from a 1.5-2L starter, you may run into trouble. The method, particularly when we talk about not letting the culture reach full cell densities (i.e. using at high krausen), just doesn't promote enough cell growth (very little in fact) to build up the cell numbers to harvest. If you did, in the next generation you would be starting with notably fewer cells (in my example, as low as 1/4 but maybe 1/3, or optimistically 1/2, of what you started with), but perhaps not catastrophically low numbers. However, in the third generation there would be even fewer cells still, and so on.... Ultimately, in some generation, likely the third or fourth, very low cell counts could bite you in the ass. I'm not sure many people would argue that pitching 5-10B yeast cells into 5 gallons of 1.060 wort is going to produce an optimal product, even if the yeast was very healthy (kveik strains excepted). So, just some caution there for people like me who would like to stretch out the use of their yeast cultures.

Sorry to be off topic, it was just a bit of a weird discussion on those starters vs cell numbers.

 

[eric19312]

I’m curious about this different starter method but we should find a more appropriate thread or start a new one for that.

 

[kaminsknator]

Calibrate your mash thermometer in both ice water and in boiling water adjusted for your elevation above sea level (water boils at different temperatures). Until that happens there is little use in discussing anything else.

I'm back!!!! Ordered a 600d and it finally came in. My thermometers don't go below 50f so I couldn't use ice. I started by inserting them (i have two thermometers) in warm water and taking up the temperature observing the difference. One thermometer kept within a few degrees for the entire range. The other thermometer, which I'm sure it's the one i was using, was 25 degrees low or more during the mash temperature range. Boiling it was ten degrees low.

Having found that out looks like I need to add beano to the beer?
I need to Brew asap and confirm the discovery. I still plan on using my stir plate

 

[dmtaylor]

The other thermometer, which I'm sure it's the one i was using, was 25 degrees low or more during the mash temperature range. Boiling it was ten degrees low.

OH MY GOD. Never heard of a "thermometer" being THAT far off before!!!

 

[madscientist451]

I've been brewing for years without a stir plate or oxygen infusion gear.
I've never had the "stalled" ferments described by the OP.
My 2 cents: Watch your mash temps and pitch a large, active amount of yeast, then be careful with your temperature unless you are using Hothead or some similar yeast.
When I get new yeast, I'll make a starter in a 1/2 gallon jug , maybe a pint of starter wort and then pitch that into a 2.5 gallon batch. I then pitch the whole yeast cake into a 5 gallon batch. After that, I only use 1/2 of the yeast cake into the next batch. No cell counts, but it seems to work ok for me.

 

[dmtaylor]

My 2 cents: Watch your mash temps

See above. He found out he was "mashing" hotter than 170 F! Enzymes all gone!!!!!!

 

[madscientist451]

I guess he's lucky he got it down to 1.030.

 

[kaminsknator]

Is it fixable through enzymes?

 

[eric19312]

Is it fixable through enzymes?

Worth a try.

 

[dmtaylor]

Is it fixable through enzymes?

"Fixable" is debatable. But yes, if you add enzymes or Beano, you will in fact get a much more dry beer, that much is true. It just might keep going to FG 1.000.

 

[bracconiere]

Having found that out looks like I need to add beano to the beer?

https://brewhaus.com/gluco-amylase-enzyme-amyloglucosidase-2oz/

probably cheaper then beano, and will last many batches....could even try a Brüt....

 

[bracconiere]

It just might keep going to FG 1.000.

guaranteed it will....

 

[Bubbles2]

FWIW- I can take an 1100 down to 0.999 with SAF 05 in 14 days over here. My avg ferment temps are in the 70-75ºf range. I just did it twice in a row, and just pitched 4 gallons on top of that cake and had airlock activity within two hours. Those were all grain at almost 80% 1st wort target. I'd give a hard look at your instruments as well ( calibration and heat sample) the amounts of grain (assuming you followed the grain bill, you did quite well with your efficiency)
I do make sure the PH is in a good place at mash as well as at pitch 5.5-5.6 I do use some Urea (Yeast Nute) since I am going pretty tall at 1100. I do use a teaspoon of gypsum for mash and a dash of Epsom too. If used after mash the gypsum precips out. I am going to assume you checked starch conversion too, with Iodine? I am sharing my good luck over so that you know it is doable with an 05 yeast.
I do come in after a couple days and stir vigorously to re oxygenate for that last run (prob from 1035- down to 1000) As I do wine, since wine is tall.
I make Stout 6 times a year and pitch the Porter on the Stout cake Usually an SAF 05 I do know that chocolate nibs cause a stall at the end, must be the cocoa oil, but I did not see that in your recipe...