Everyday Simplest Dry Cider

[TheCADJockey]

^ I'm in the same boat. I had a bit come out the top but the activity remained for the entire week, and is now as active as yours @kgressler . I picked up a wine thief on Sunday so I'm itching to take a sample but don't want to until I know it is definitely nearing completion.

 

[phug]

Week 2: Fermentation has really began to slow down to around 1 burp every 30-45 seconds. Temp has been a steady 58-60 throughout. I really need to start rallying up some bottles. Ive got a total of 20 gallons of cider and only like 5 bottles saved.
Phug, So should I just wait till i see no more burps before I check it or just go 4 weeks even if its still burping and bottle?

is it totally clear? Does it seem like fermentation is completely done, and is simply offgassing? if the answer to both of those is yes, then you're probably done.

That being said, what's the harm in leaving it in primary while you scrounge bottles? There's probably very little sense in worrying about taking a reading until you have enough bottles.

So round up whatever you can, beer bottles, flip tops, pop bottles, fizzy water bottles. Once you've done that, I can virtually guarantee that your fermentation is complete.

 

[TheCADJockey]

Thanks buddy. Not clear yet at all but I did have that little volcanic incident. Just excited, at least the wife is..she even bought caps with little apples on them :cross:

 

[kgressler]

Well I can't see it because its in a bucket. I have a glass carboy but I have a different batch currently living in there.

I guess I will need to go out and just buy some beer. Dont judge me but I actually enjoy corona so I may go pick up a couple cases at Sams Club and see if me and a few buddies can polish them off this weekend.

Thanks phug

 

[phug]

It's probably best to give it the full 4 weeks, especially if you're using a bucket and can't easily see where you're at in terms of clarity. I wouldn't want to have you come back unhappy if an extra week or two would have made the difference.

 

[kgressler]

Well 10 days ago gravity was at 1.020 or so. So I am thinking I may take a peak this weekend and see how its going along.
I should have enough bottles for this batch after having a few drinks on friday. So I may be able to bottle this weekend.

 

[TheCADJockey]

Well 10 days ago gravity was at 1.020 or so. So I am thinking I may take a peak this weekend and see how its going along.
I should have enough bottles for this batch after having a few drinks on friday. So I may be able to bottle this weekend.

If you do, let us know what the outcome is. I think ours are about the same age, it will be nice to know. I have not checked gravity yet, it is nowhere near clear though.

 

[kgressler]

If you do, let us know what the outcome is. I think ours are about the same age, it will be nice to know. I have not checked gravity yet, it is nowhere near clear though.

It may be getting close. Right before I left for work this morning I took a peek in the room and there was no airlock activity for well over 2 minutes. Granted the room was a slight bit cooler then it has been the last few weeks. Temp on the bucket and my other carboy batch was 56.

 

[TheCADJockey]

It may be getting close. Right before I left for work this morning I took a peek in the room and there was no airlock activity for well over 2 minutes. Granted the room was a slight bit cooler then it has been the last few weeks. Temp on the bucket and my other carboy batch was 56.

How long has yours been fermenting? I think this following Tuesday 16th, will mark the start of week 3 for me. Has yours cleared up at all? Mine looks like apple cider still, very cloudy.

 

[kgressler]

How long has yours been fermenting? I think this following Tuesday 16th, will mark the start of week 3 for me. Has yours cleared up at all? Mine looks like apple cider still, very cloudy.

I started mine on the Tuesday before Thanksgiving so I believe we are on the same schedule. My cider is in a bucket so I can see if its is clear or not.
But if yours is still pretty cloudy then mine probably is as well.
Ive kept mine pretty cool the entire time. Today its been the coolest at 56 but for the most part its been sitting around 60-40.
So maybe I wont mess with it till next weekend then.

What temps have you kept yours at?

 

[TheCADJockey]

Mine is definitely very cloudy still, it did splurt out the airlock at one point when it was really vigorous in the beginning so I don't know if that affected the clarity or not. That was early on though, so I don't think it did. I've got it in a tote with water around it to hopefully keep it a little cooler but the ambient temp is 68*-72*. I kept a couple ice bottles in the water for the first couple days to hopefully keep it around 65*, but I have not added ice now. My hopes are that the water bath just keeps it steady. The airlock still blurps every 5-10 seconds.

I will take a better picture of it tonight or tomorrow morning so we can see what it looks like. I'm pretty sure we did make it on the same day, so it will be interesting to see how they both turn out. I know its not ready yet, but I was considering taking a reading this weekend, more so that I could take a taste. Wife is so excited about it, she keeps texting me at work, "Do we get to name it too??". Whatever floats your boat babe.

 

[kgressler]

LOL at her wanting to name it. My wife is slightly interested. I think as long as its dry with just a slight bit of sweet she'll be fine with anything I brew. Thats why I thought this recipe would be a good one to start with.

I picked up my frozen concentrate this morning. I decided to give cranberry apple a go. Although now I wish I would have maybe gone with 5 1 gallon carboys to try different concentrates to see which i enjoy better. But I guess I always have time to make other batches if this turns out well.

 

[TheCADJockey]

Oh yeah man.. she even bought caps with little apples on them so "we could tell them apart". I just picked up regular aj concentrate, I didn't consider trying something else that might be neat. If this turns out well though, I have a feeling I'll need another carboy since there will forever be one of these going. The only thing I'm worried about is bottling. I don't want bombs and I don't want to pasteurize. I wonder if anyone has tried adding cinnamon to this or if its too dry for that.

 

[kgressler]

From reading as long as you don't go over about 140g of sugar you should be fine without pasteurizing.
The concentrate I bought is 29g per serving with 6 serving so my can is 174g of sugar.
I just plan on adding just 3/4 of the can. And just make sure the cider is fully fermented and it should be fine.
If you are a little worried about your first batch use plastic soda bottles. If they break no danger just a bit of a mess.

http://www.northernbrewer.com/priming-sugar-calculator/ Here is a link to show what types of sugars and amounts for priming.

 

[phug]

for the cran apple, just keep in mind that cranberry is VERY tart once you remove all the sugars it has. Think of unsweetened cranberry juice, but more so, but unsweetened cranberry juice still has the natural fruit sugars in it.

I'm not saying it will be bad, just be prepared for it and recognize it for what it will be. Even with apple juice, remove the sugars, and it can be really tart all by itself until it has time to mellow.

 

[drat12]

I found some preservative free apple juice at costco yesterday, so I thought I'd give this a try. I have some extra wyeast 1332 from my last batch of beer. I see that wyeast 1332 has an alcohol tolerance of 10 percent. Any thoughts about adding some extra brown sugar to the recipe on the front end to up the alcohol content?

 

[phug]

I found some preservative free apple juice at costco yesterday, so I thought I'd give this a try. I have some extra wyeast 1332 from my last batch of beer. I see that wyeast 1332 has an alcohol tolerance of 10 percent. Any thoughts about adding some extra brown sugar to the recipe on the front end to up the alcohol content?

That will change the flavour profile, and if you leave it as a dry cider may require aging.

If you want my recommendation, if you want to up the alcohol content of this recipe, I would suggest adding a few cans (4-5) of apple juice concentrate to your carboy before you top up with apple juice to your 5 gallon volume.

Also, I'm unfamiliar with WY 1332, so I don't know how flocculant it is, or what temps it is happiest at. so you may have to make some process/timing adjustments. possibly even fining.

 

[phug]

ok, so.

YEAST STRAIN: 1332 | Northwest Ale™

Back to Yeast Strain List

One of the classic ale strains from a Northwest U.S. Brewery. It produces a malty and mildly fruity ale with good depth and complexity.

Origin:
Flocculation: high
Attenuation: 67-71%
Temperature Range: 65-75° F (18-24° C)
Alcohol Tolerance: approximately 10% ABV

Probably not a bad choice at all.

 

[drat12]

That will change the flavour profile, and if you leave it as a dry cider may require aging.



If you want my recommendation, if you want to up the alcohol content of this recipe, I would suggest adding a few cans (4-5) of apple juice concentrate to your carboy before you top up with apple juice to your 5 gallon volume.



Also, I'm unfamiliar with WY 1332, so I don't know how flocculant it is, or what temps it is happiest at. so you may have to make some process/timing adjustments. possibly even fining.

Whew! 4-5 cans? I'm working with 4 gallons of juice (wanted to try to use a 5 gallon carboy instead of my 6.5). Is a big head of krausen expected on these?

Also, where did you get the 4-5cans? Is it based on sugar content (seems to be approx 160 grams of sugar per can) or just to make sure I get enough apple flavor?

 

[phug]

Okay going back to the brown sugar how much sugar were you hoping to add and how much of an abv boost we're you looking for? Straight juice with ec 1118 will hit the 6-6.5 percent range. I was assuming a lb of brown sugar and figured four or five cans would be roughly equivalent sugar content but let's see 454 g divided by 130 ish is... Three and change . So let me revise that to 3-4 cans would give you probably about a 3 point boost to SG in a four gallon batch? I'm not sure since I'm on the bus and would love to be able to even get to the level of "back of the napkin" math. All math in this specific post right here is from barely remembered numbers without checking any sources

As four krausen. I'd say you don't have to worry about it if you're doing a 4 gal batch in a 5 gal carboy. Though not being familiar with your yeast, I can't promise anything.

If you can set up a blowoff tube go ahead and put five gallons in.

 

[phug]

Yes the can calculation is purely from a sugars perspective. Your cans may vary.

 

[kgressler]

for the cran apple, just keep in mind that cranberry is VERY tart once you remove all the sugars it has. Think of unsweetened cranberry juice, but more so, but unsweetened cranberry juice still has the natural fruit sugars in it.

I'm not saying it will be bad, just be prepared for it and recognize it for what it will be. Even with apple juice, remove the sugars, and it can be really tart all by itself until it has time to mellow.

INGREDIENTS: Apple juice concentrate, filtered water, pear juice concentrate, grape juice concentrate, natural flavors, citric acid, plum juice concentrate, cranberry juice concentrate, ascorbic acid (Vitamin C).

It's not all cranberry? Lol yeah you are making sense maybe I should have put it in the primary instead then back sweetened with apple concentrate.

 

[drat12]

Okay going back to the brown sugar how much sugar were you hoping to add and how much of an abv boost we're you looking for? Straight juice with ec 1118 will hit the 6-6.5 percent range. I was assuming a lb of brown sugar and figured four or five cans would be roughly equivalent sugar content but let's see 454 g divided by 130 ish is... Three and change . So let me revise that to 3-4 cans would give you probably about a 3 point boost to SG in a four gallon batch? I'm not sure since I'm on the bus and would love to be able to even get to the level of "back of the napkin" math. All math in this specific post right here is from barely remembered numbers without checking any sources

As four krausen. I'd say you don't have to worry about it if you're doing a 4 gal batch in a 5 gal carboy. Though not being familiar with your yeast, I can't promise anything.

If you can set up a blowoff tube go ahead and put five gallons in.

An you explain the math used here? How do you determine the points?

 

[phug]

Math time. According to jack Keller's website. One pound of sugar 454 g will increase the SG of one gallon of must by .046 when we factor in the liquid we add with the ajc I think .040 is a pretty good approximation. If instead of a one gallon batch you add that same sugar to 5 gallons the you would only increase the total SG by 1/5. Which means that your SG would increase by .004. My cans of ajc contain 127 g of sugars each. Which means I would need 3.6 of them to have added 1 lb of sugars. And an increase in SG of .004 gives a net increase of about .5 abv. If you start at 1.050 and increase to 1.054 in this way then you would go from 6.5 to 7.0 potential alcohol.

This time I did check my math and references.

 

[phug]

At any rate I've never fermented cranapple punch so I can't tell you what the end result is. At a guess, dry and tart, which can be good, but at this point I think you'd be able to consider it a different recipe than the one this thread opens with.

 

[drat12]

Math time. According to jack Keller's website. One pound of sugar 454 g will increase the SG of one gallon of must by .046 when we factor in the liquid we add with the ajc I think .040 is a pretty good approximation. If instead of a one gallon batch you add that same sugar to 5 gallons the you would only increase the total SG by 1/5. Which means that your SG would increase by .004. My cans of ajc contain 127 g of sugars each. Which means I would need 3.6 of them to have added 1 lb of sugars. And an increase in SG of .004 gives a net increase of about .5 abv. If you start at 1.050 and increase to 1.054 in this way then you would go from 6.5 to 7.0 potential alcohol.

This time I did check my math and references.

Question: .040 divided by 5 is .008 not .004, right? Or am I missing some extra math? Not trying to be a smart a##. Just want to be sure I understand how to do the calculation. Thanks!

 

[kgressler]

At any rate I've never fermented cranapple punch so I can't tell you what the end result is. At a guess, dry and tart, which can be good, but at this point I think you'd be able to consider it a different recipe than the one this thread opens with.

Plug I'm not drat I was just asking. I've got no opinion and zero experience lol

 

[phug]

Question: .040 divided by 5 is .008 not .004, right? Or am I missing some extra math? Not trying to be a smart a##. Just want to be sure I understand how to do the calculation. Thanks!

You are completely right. Good catch. The one part I felt competent to calc by myself and I failed. So one lb in five gal will give you .008 SG increase and 1% abv boost.

 

[kgressler]

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1418517434.602201.jpg

Couldn't help myself I broke the seal on the cider today and took a gravity reading. 1.000. . Pretty cloudy still so I decided to go ahead rack it and put it in a plastic carboy and let it clarify some more before bottling.
Had a sample and besides the really champagne feel/taste it's not too bad. What kind of bump in Gravity would a can if concentrate give me. Say 130 to 140 grams of sugar? Really don't want it to be too awful much sweeter.

On the right is my fresh unpasteurized cider pitched with Notty.

 

[phug]

One can for you will give you about .002 gravity boost in a five gal batch

 

[kgressler]

One can for you will give you about .002 gravity boost in a five gal batch

Thanks you.

Really crazy the color difference between the unpasteurized cider and the store bought stuff. The unpasteurized stuff looks like orange juice.

 

[TheCADJockey]

Couldn't help myself I broke the seal on the cider today and took a gravity reading. 1.000. . Pretty cloudy still so I decided to go ahead rack it and put it in a plastic carboy and let it clarify some more before bottling.
Had a sample and besides the really champagne feel/taste it's not too bad. What kind of bump in Gravity would a can if concentrate give me. Say 130 to 140 grams of sugar? Really don't want it to be too awful much sweeter.

On the right is my fresh unpasteurized cider pitched with Notty.

So being that the reading came out as 1.000, is that considered to be fermented dry? Does that mean you will just let it sit a few more days in hopes it clears up, then put it in bottling bucket, add FAJC, bottle, and condition in fridge?

 

[phug]

So being that the reading came out as 1.000, is that considered to be fermented dry? Does that mean you will just let it sit a few more days in hopes it clears up, then put it in bottling bucket, add FAJC, bottle, and condition in fridge?

answers are:

yes, that's dry and the expected FG for this recipe.
yes, just let it sit a few more days it should clear up on or before the 4 week mark from yeast pitching. If it's at 1.000 and clear, feel free to bottle.

however, slight revision to what you have written. Thaw the AJC and put it in your bottling bucket first, then siphon the cider to your bucket, bottle, and then condition at room temp for 4 weeks. Then it's ready for the fridge and drinking.

If you condition it in the fridge, you'll have to wait a long while before your cider gets fully carbed.

 

[TheCADJockey]

Perfect. Thank you for clearing that up for me.

 

[kgressler]

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1418904537.595671.jpg
Here we are looks like it's just above 1.000 been there for 4 days now so I guess it's about done.
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1418904638.042344.jpg
Here's a photo of the ec1118 with samsclub juice on the left and then unpasteurized fresh juice on the right with Notty.
The Notty isn't quite ready it's sitting on 1.20 right now and quite cloudy still.
Tasted both of them and I've got zero apple flavor in the ec1118 with store juice. It's basically a dry white wine.
While I enjoy wine and prefer dry white wine. When I think of cider I guess I expect some apple flavor.
The fresh juice with Notty is damn tasty but still obviously very sweet.
Hopefully in time the ec1118 will get better. Will try and bottle the ec1118 her sometime this week. There is still a ton of carbonation when I pour it from the wine thief to the gravity jar. Which has me quite worried about bottle bombs. Do you think I should wait and see if this can dry out further before attempting to bottle? It won't be 4 weeks till Saturday and with the colder temperatures I've been keeping it at maybe a longer secondary is needed.
Please advise.

 

[TheCADJockey]

Cool glasses. Does the ec1118 not taste good, or is it just not what you expected? Mine still is nowhere near as clear as yours, maybe I should pick up a new carboy on the way home so I can rack it once. I'm afraid my wife may not like it if it is not sweet at all, it has definitely been a good learning experience though. They look nice at least!

 

[phug]

Looks good kgressler,

it definitely will have a bit more wine character, but give it the 4 weeks of conditioning time and you will probably find that the flavours change a bit, and you'll get some of that apple back. Some folks say even 6 months down the line that the apple flavour really comes back.

I wouldn't expect it to dry out any further, though it may clear a little bit more.

You mentioned you're concerned about bottle bombs due to the CO2 in suspension. That Co2 is normal and expected, but if you let me know what your volume is, what temp your cider is at, and how much sugar is in your can of Concentrate, I can plug those in to a priming calculator and see if we can get you some reassurance.

 

[phug]

Cool glasses. Does the ec1118 not taste good, or is it just not what you expected? Mine still is nowhere near as clear as yours, maybe I should pick up a new carboy on the way home so I can rack it once. I'm afraid my wife may not like it if it is not sweet at all, it has definitely been a good learning experience though. They look nice at least!

Racking it to a new carboy isn't going to hurt you, but it definitely isn't necessary in this case. This recipe definitely is dry, and a bit tart, though that mellows.

 

[TheCADJockey]

Looks good kgressler,

it definitely will have a bit more wine character, but give it the 4 weeks of conditioning time and you will probably find that the flavours change a bit, and you'll get some of that apple back. Some folks say even 6 months down the line that the apple flavour really comes back.

You mentioned you're concerned about bottle bombs due to the CO2 in suspension. That Co2 is normal and expected, but if you let me know what your volume is, what temp your cider is at, and how much sugar is in your can of Concentrate, I can plug those in to a priming calculator and see if we can get you some reassurance.

Thanks for helping so much phug, I am going to need this reassurance when the time comes but I am going to give mine the full 4 weeks. Although that means mine is done on Christmas so I'll take sample when I get home tonight at least to see where we stand.

 

[kgressler]

Cool glasses. Does the ec1118 not taste good, or is it just not what you expected? Mine still is nowhere near as clear as yours, maybe I should pick up a new carboy on the way home so I can rack it once. I'm afraid my wife may not like it if it is not sweet at all, it has definitely been a good learning experience though. They look nice at least!

Thanks, Schlafly is a "large" popular microbrew here in St Louis. Each year they have a all you can sample day in Feb for like 15 bucks and you get these 4-5 ounce glasses. They normally have 30-40 beers to sample with the majority of them test batches that arent for sale yet. They also being in a few homebrewers and allow them to give out sample too.

From reading all the threads over the last few weeks it appears some of the flavors will come back just as phug said. You just need to be patient.
Im not sure how much if any sweetness will come from the FAJC when bottling but my wife and I both do enjoy dry white wine so its just fine to me. Although I will try and let a lot of this age.