Estrella Damm Clone?

[Chrisdaviking]

Been trying to recreate Estrella Damm a "Mediterranean" Lager out of Barcelona, my girlfriends favorite beer. Anyone out there had it and have any ideas on the hops/yeast?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

You can get some clues - for instance back in 2007 Protz & Oliver reviewed the US import which was 5.4% ABV, 1052 OG, "7.6" colour, 26 IBU. So that implies the yeast is achieving ~78% attenuation on what must be a pretty fermentable grist. It now seems to be down to 4.6%, at least for bottles in the UK.

Although they like to boast of being made from just barley, rice and hops, British supermarket labelling shows up "Water, Barley Malt (10%), Maize, Rice (1%), Hops". That's 10% of the total product, so we know there's a 10:1 ratio of barley:rice - and there must be more maize than rice (because of the ordering of the list). One can assume that most of the malt is pilsner, but the colour implies a bit of Munich or something. They use pearl rice from the Ebro delta. In 2008 they were using E405 (Propylene glycol alginate, PGA) for head retention. They still claim to brew to the same recipe as 1876...

Their yeast will be proprietary and not directly equivalent to any of the homebrew strains. But given that Damm originated in Alsace which has a lot of German influence, I'd assume a German, Frohberg-type yeast so something like 34/70 or S-189 (liquid equivalents are WLP830/2124 and WLP885). By the same token I'd imagine the hops are traditional German varieties like Hallertau Mittelfruh, or perhaps even Strisselspalt from Alsace if you can find it. Or a US hop like Mt Hood will do as an alternative, there's not a huge contribution from the hops beyond bitterness.

So you're looking something like this :

Water
No idea what Damm use, but in the absence of further information, go for a fairly low and balanced water profile - say 50ppm each of calcium, chloride and sulphate.

Grist
Aim for 1.046 OG for the modern version, which for 5 US gallons (19 litres) at 70% brewhouse efficiency implies

6.75lb (3kg, 73%) Pilsner malt
1lb (450g, 11%) flaked maize
12oz (340g, 8%) Munich malt
12oz (340g, 8%) short-grain rice

Hops - aim for 26 IBU

60 min 1.25oz (35g) Hallertau Mittelfruh (4.5%) OR 1.5oz (42g) Strisselspalt (4%)
15 miin 0.5oz (14g) Hallertau Mittelfruh (4.5%) OR Strisselspalt

Yeast
You're looking for 4.6% which implies attenuation of around 78% on this "easy" wort, which means a yeast that attenuates 75-76% on standard wort. So 34/70,WLP830,2124 or S-189/WLP885.

Damm "boast" of 1 week fermentation and 2 weeks conditioning. Commercial Eurolager tends to be fermented pretty warm, like ~60F (15C) although their huge vessels suppress off flavours. Homebrewers have found that Frohberg yeasts like 34/70 can be fermented warmer than that with no major problems. The main thing is to keep the temperature constant.

I can pretty much guarantee that this will NOT be identical to Estrella, it's just pure speculation on my part. But hopefully it will be close enough that you can use it as the basis for further refinement, particularly if you can tie down aspects like what speciality malts they are using beyond my guess of 8% Munich.

 

[deadwolfbones]

Been trying to recreate Estrella Damm a "Mediterranean" Lager out of Barcelona, my girlfriends favorite beer. Anyone out there had it and have any ideas on the hops/yeast?

Off-topic, but are you a member of COHO?

 

[kjelljorner]

I also want to try to make a clone of Estrella Damm. In addition to this thread, I found one on reddit with some more information. I also found a technical sheet that is very informative. Not sure if the recipe changed, but according to the previously linked ingredients list from Tesco, they seem to have dropped the maize and switched to 11:4 barley:rice (73% vs. 27%). There's also 4.6% or 5.4% commercial versions available; this tries to copy the 5.4%.

To summarize what we know

• OG: 1.053
• FG: 1.012 (calculated from OG and ABV)
• ABV: 5.4%
• Apparent attenuation: 77% (calculated from OG and ABV)
• IBU: 26
• Color: EBC 10
• 73% barley malt, 27% rice
• Hops: Nugget, Magnum, Taurus, Herkules
• Carbonation: 2.5 volumes

Based on those specifications, I created the following recipe for a 10L batch.

Stats
5.5% / 13.1 °P
Original Gravity: 1.053
Final Gravity: 1.011
IBU (Tinseth): 25
BU/GU: 0.48
Color: 9.7 EBC

Mash
Temperature — 67 °C — 60 min

Malts (2.609 kg)
1.696 kg (65%) — Weyermann Pilsner — Grain — 3.3 EBC
652 g (25%) — Rice, Flaked — Grain — 2 EBC
130 g (5%) — Weyermann Melanoidin — Grain — 59 EBC
130 g (5%) — Weyermann Munich I — Grain — 15 EBC

Hops (18 g)
6 g (17 IBU) — Hallertau Magnum 14% — Boil — 60 min
2 g (3 IBU) — Hallertau Taurus 14.8% — Boil — 15 min
2 g (3 IBU) — Herkules 14.5% — Boil — 15 min
2 g (3 IBU) — Nugget 13% — Boil — 15 min

Yeast
1 pkg — Lallemand (LalBrew) Diamond Lager 80%

I could be wildly off here so feedback appreciated. What I would be most uncertain of are:

• How to get the EBC of 10 – this is very difficult unless adding a very large percentage of Munich so I took Melanoidin instead.
• Hop quantities and times. I figured Magnum was mainly for bittering and the rest should give some aroma but not too much.
• Temperature of the mash

 

[Northern_Brewer]

• How to get the EBC of 10 – this is very difficult unless adding a very large percentage of Munich so I took Melanoidin instead.

Never try to use flavour ingredients to hit the colour of a commercial beer - they normally brew paler than the final EBC and then add caramel, Sinamar etc to increase the colour to a standard value for commercial consistency. Figure out what you need for it to taste right, and just accept yours will be a bit paler than the commercial version.

 

[kjelljorner]

Never try to use flavour ingredients to hit the colour of a commercial beer - they normally brew paler than the final EBC and then add caramel, Sinamar etc to increase the colour to a standard value for commercial consistency. Figure out what you need for it to taste right, and just accept yours will be a bit paler than the commercial version.

Thanks, that's very much appreciated feedback. I have revised the grain bill for a predicted 8 EBC. Considering that they do their own malting this would obviously be difficult to get right except by taste, as you write.

• 1.563 kg (60%) — Weyermann Pilsner — Grain — 3.3 EBC
• 651 g (25%) — Rice, Flaked — Grain — 2 EBC
• 391 g (15%) — Weyermann Munich I — Grain — 15 EBC

 

[kjelljorner]

I’ll be brewing tomorrow! What I’m most unsure of now is the hop schedule. All of these are bittering hops as far as I can tell.

Hops (18 g)
6 g (17 IBU) — Hallertau Magnum 14% — Boil — 60 min
2 g (3 IBU) — Hallertau Taurus 14.8% — Boil — 15 min
2 g (3 IBU) — Herkules 14.5% — Boil — 15 min
2 g (3 IBU) — Nugget 13% — Boil — 15 min

 

[fluketamer]

I’ll be brewing tomorrow! What I’m most unsure of now is the hop schedule. All of these are bittering hops as far as I can tell.

Hops (18 g)
6 g (17 IBU) — Hallertau Magnum 14% — Boil — 60 min
2 g (3 IBU) — Hallertau Taurus 14.8% — Boil — 15 min
2 g (3 IBU) — Herkules 14.5% — Boil — 15 min
2 g (3 IBU) — Nugget 13% — Boil — 15 min

what is your question ?

 

[AmarikinBrew]

I’ll be brewing tomorrow! What I’m most unsure of now is the hop schedule. All of these are bittering hops as far as I can tell.

Hops (18 g)
6 g (17 IBU) — Hallertau Magnum 14% — Boil — 60 min
2 g (3 IBU) — Hallertau Taurus 14.8% — Boil — 15 min
2 g (3 IBU) — Herkules 14.5% — Boil — 15 min
2 g (3 IBU) — Nugget 13% — Boil — 15 min

30 minutes and down to 10 minutes are usually considered flavor hops.
10 minutes and down to 0 are considered aroma hops. -but I can tell you you get flavor from 10 on down too!

This hop schedule looks like a typical Dortmunder listing, meant to be bursting with flavor and aroma.
The Italian lagers use this hop schedule approach quite often too.

 

[AmarikinBrew]

Also it says "Mediterranean Rice" - Google AI can help here?

is basmati rice different in composition than chinese rice?

Key differences in composition:
Starch content (Amylose and Amylopectin): Rice contains two main types of starch: amylose and amylopectin.

Basmati rice is a type of long-grain rice that is relatively high in amylose. Amylose does not readily gelatinize upon cooking, which contributes to the characteristic fluffy, separate grains of basmati rice.

"Chinese rice" can refer to a variety of rice types, including both long-grain and short-grain varieties. Short and medium-grain rice varieties, often used in Chinese cooking, tend to be higher in amylopectin. Amylopectin gelatinizes easily, leading to a stickier texture.

I would replace the Munich with Distiller's malt AKA American 6-Row, which lends to a clearer beer because it tends to help with the proteins of adjuncts, AND I LIKE the mega grainy taste it adds.

Enough of my $0.02 cents worth.

 

[kjelljorner]

Thanks for all the feedback! I brewed today with the original hop schedule, got OG of 1.049 (aimed for 1.053, a bit less boil-off than expected). Will now pitch Diamond lager yeast and ferment at 18–20°C.

Regarding the rice, that is an interesting point. I understand they source it locally from the Ebro delta in Spain so might be similar to the rice used for paella. Would be interesting to try, but I understand it would require a cereal mash and I'm a bit too lazy for that For the American 6-row, I'm not sure if that would be very appropriate for this clone... I've also not seen any shop carrying American 2-row and 6-row here in Switzerland.

 

[JohnDBrewer]

The Italian lagers use this hop schedule approach quite often too.

Anyone got a descent Italian Pils recipe?