English Lager?

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My personal interest has for years been the beers of the Industrial Revolution, particularly in the UK. My own favourite beers seem to be those brewed roughly 1850-1960, and having no particular liking for lager except at lunchtime on a hot day when I've been engaged in heavy labour, I've always had an antagonistic position on lagers from the UK. The explosion of popularity of lager that occurred in the late 1950's-early 60's literally killed many traditional ales. Marris Otter appears to just be a nail in the coffin. For my own brews, I know I have been successful at recreating the typical pub-ales because my primary tester is my dad-in-law, former SAS, who grew up in Liverpool and knew his pubs quite well.
It looks to me that your recipe and approach has complete historical precedent. If you don't mind, I'm gonna bookmark it to try it some day. Just curious though; Any chance you can find an old english chap to try it out and provide some feedback? (unfortunately, there's not many of that generation left.. my dad-in-law is 90)
:mug:
 
Broken Crow said:
My personal interest has for years been the beers of the Industrial Revolution, particularly in the UK. My own favourite beers seem to be those brewed roughly 1850-1960, and having no particular liking for lager except at lunchtime on a hot day when I've been engaged in heavy labour, I've always had an antagonistic position on lagers from the UK. The explosion of popularity of lager that occurred in the late 1950's-early 60's literally killed many traditional ales. Marris Otter appears to just be a nail in the coffin. For my own brews, I know I have been successful at recreating the typical pub-ales because my primary tester is my dad-in-law, former SAS, who grew up in Liverpool and knew his pubs quite well.
It looks to me that your recipe and approach has complete historical precedent. If you don't mind, I'm gonna bookmark it to try it some day. Just curious though; Any chance you can find an old english chap to try it out and provide some feedback? (unfortunately, there's not many of that generation left.. my dad-in-law is 90)
:mug:
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To be honest, as an ale drinker predominantly, I think big commercial interests in Britain and elsewhere have done an effective job alienating Lager among those who generally appreciate good ale. And having had many trips to Germany, I'd be surprised if the small local traditional breweries there are mashing at 62°C. I think that's what big commercials have done, historically, mainly to produce ethanol rather than a decent beer. Mashing at higher temperatures definitely takes things to another level. In terms of fermentability there's really not much in it, 1-2% difference, which makes me think whatever's going on on the other side (of fermentability) is pretty low threshold stuff?
 
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I think your adorable dog's patience is the real key. As a fellow predominantly ale-drinker, I am interested in trying a lager brewed to the style of 1950's - 1960's UK purely for a historical epicurean perspective... that of course, requires the accurate feedback of a rather old person who was there for it. Thanks for this whole thread. I'm going to keep it bookmarked and refer to it when I've finally finished setting up my own gear so I can follow it properly and hope my dad-in-law stays with us to give me some feedback, and I can maintain the same patience as your dog.
Oh; As to the Carling; My first beer was Carling Black Label (original Canadian) in 1972.... It was wretched, and when they reintroduced it in the late 80's or early 90's, they made an accurate and faithful perfect copy of the original and... It was still wretched!! (I drank it anyway, for fond memories)
:)
 
Joe P said:
Pennsylvania here, Yeuingling brewery, America's oldest brewery still brews a Lager & it's a top seller. The taste (to me) is what a Lager should taste like. I found a recipe after reading several articles about the brewery and pieced it together. Haven't tasted it yet as its still carbonating. Ill definetly give a heads up when i finally taste it. Meanwhile, if you never had a Yeuingling brew check them out, it's really decent tasting. Just saying
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Timely comment to me. Last weekend I was camping in Western Pennsylvania, and one person in our group brought some Yeuingling. My father's family was from Central PA, and I have spent a considerable amount of time in Philly, in addition to living most of my adult life 20 miles south of the Mason-Dixon Line in Central Maryland. In my 72+ years, this was the first time I'd ever had a Yeungling, and found it quite enjoyable.
 
Joe P said:
Pennsylvania here, Yeuingling brewery, America's oldest brewery still brews a Lager & it's a top seller. The taste (to me) is what a Lager should taste like. I found a recipe after reading several articles about the brewery and pieced it together. Haven't tasted it yet as its still carbonating. Ill definetly give a heads up when i finally taste it. Meanwhile, if you never had a Yeuingling brew check them out, it's really decent tasting. Just saying
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If you’re in PA see if there’s a Two Stones Pub anywhere around you or if your beer distributor might have some of their cans. If you can find it, look for the Delco Lager. If you like Yuengling give that a taste. Delco is slang for Delaware County, PA where the brewer is from.
 
Joe P said:
Pennsylvania here, Yeuingling brewery, America's oldest brewery still brews a Lager & it's a top seller. The taste (to me) is what a Lager should taste like. I found a recipe after reading several articles about the brewery and pieced it together. Haven't tasted it yet as its still carbonating. Ill definetly give a heads up when i finally taste it. Meanwhile, if you never had a Yeuingling brew check them out, it's really decent tasting. Just saying
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Yuengling claims to be America’s oldest brewery. “America” as in the United States. Molson in Canada is older and claims to be North America’s oldest brewery.
 
Broken Crow said:
My personal interest has for years been the beers of the Industrial Revolution, particularly in the UK. My own favourite beers seem to be those brewed roughly 1850-1960
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The Industrial Revolution started a century earlier than that in the UK - this is a nice map of its spread, which among other things suggests a reason why the Napoleonic Wars ended in 1815 with the result that they did....

But if you're interested in British lager in the 19th century, I'll repeat my recommendation above for Boak & Bailey's Gambrinus Waltz, when British lager was influenced by the real thing from the Continent rather than the ersatz versions from the colonies that arrived after WWII.
Broken Crow said:
It looks to me that your recipe and approach has complete historical precedent. If you don't mind, I'm gonna bookmark it to try it some day. Just curious though; Any chance you can find an old english chap to try it out and provide some feedback?
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What McMullan was aiming for with high-quality English ingredients throughout had no basis in anything brewed before the millennium - and certainly not the licence-brewed lagers of the post-WWII period, which were brewed with the cheapest ingredients (mostly from Eastern Europe) by brewers who often had little experience of lager brewing. Perhaps the likes of Keystone or Milwaukee's Best are the nearest equivalents in the US market - they're just not beers you would want to clone (and actually they're quite hard to clone at homebrew scale, as we don't have access to all the chemical crap that the big boys do).

But that's not what the OP was aiming for, at all.
 
I will post this as a malt choice for anyone coming into this thread thinking about a English lager
https://crispmalt.com/malts/hana-malt/
https://crispmalt.com/recipes/english-pilsner/

I bought some of the malt and brewed a Czech inspired lager(smash with saaz and S-23) with some of the malt and thought it came out well. Was thinking about doing something similar to @McMullan first post with the rest of the malt is how I found this post. Was thinking EKG or possible bramling cross or northern brewer as the hops.


Additionally Simpson's golden promise works well as a base malt for pale lagers. I have not used with English hops in a lager but it worked well with tettnang and WLP835 Lager X yeast.
 
cire said:
View attachment 765320

Above is a typical sixties attempt at lager. The mash and boil are the same as for a pale ale, but fermented with yeast from the Red Tower Brewery, then a long-established brewer of lager. Hop 28 was listed as "Styrians", supplied by a British Hop Merchant.

So, just 14 Qtrs Muntons Pale Malt and 3 Qtrs of Flaked Rice with 50 lbs of Styrian Goldings. That's about 9 gm of hops per kg of grist, all at the start of the boil. OG 1037 fermented at 57F/14C.

Many brewers at that time used their normal ale yeast, but this one didn't.
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Which brewery is that record from?
 
I have brewed Barkley Perkins British Dark Lager twice and is quite tasty. As Pattinson says it is more like a lager Dark Mild.
 
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