End of an era????

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Gropo

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Are we witnessing the "beginning of the end" for dry yeast?? Every other thread is a *****-fest (right-fully so?) about ****ty experiences with dry yeast. Everyone keeps some dry yeast on hand as an emergency back-up, but realizes that if they have to use it, the original vision for their beer will be compromised significantly. If Wyeast and White Labs cut their retail sale price by 20% - 30% right now, perhaps we could keep an extra smack-pack as back-up. Could that possibly drive the final nail in the coffin of dry yeast? And would that be a good thing?
 
I used dry yeast on my first batch because that's what came with the kit and I figured on my first brew I should just stick with the basic stuff and not try to get fancy with it.

Since then, I've read and heard from a large number of sources that liquid yeast is the way to go. I doubt I'll ever use dry yeast again, so if it does go away, I won't really be affected.
 
I think you misunderstood what some people were talking about. Many swear by dry yeast. Particularly US-04, US-05, and Nottingham. Notty has had a few quality control problems lately, but they seem to have corrected the issue. The dry yeast many ***** about is that little pack they stick to the top of canned LME. IMHO that sh*t isn't worth much. Some of the most experienced brewers on this site only use dry yeast unless they are looking for a very specific flavor profile. I usually am looking for a very specific flavor profile, but if I am looking for a very clean, neutral yeast, I will always grab US-05.
 
I would say the majority of homebrewers are not nearly as worried about the minuscule details that some of the forums members here are and regularly use kit with dry yeast such as muntons and notty. Dry yeast is so easy to use and rarely makes for bad beer.

Lately I've been using cultured pacman but just sayin'.

I'm not quite sure what you mean; I see few, if any, complaints about US-05 or US-04....

I haven't either.
 
Interesting...and thanks for the replies. Not my intention to piss anybody off or upset a status quo, I was just curious......if liquid yeast was as affordable as dry, how many home-brewers would PREFER dry over liquid. I was guessing very few. Probably my inexperience with unlocking the nuances of dry yeast.
 
Not sure what you mean here, dude. Safeale products have not done me wrong yet.
 
Nothing wrong with dry yeast. Its not going anywhere. I've even used the supposed "bad" batch of nottingham with no ill effects.
 
Variety has a lot to do with why people may seem to 'prefer' liquid yeast. Truth is S04 and Notty are great yeasts overall, they can produce a wide variety of beers and are very stable over time--but they can't produce ALL beers. I don't think they are going anywhere.

PS-If you're washing your yeast, the whole cost argument becomes virtually moot.
 
Many new brewers feel that they have to use liquid yeast for all their batches because it is "better." Dry yeast is actually just as good for ales as liquid. I only use liquid yeast with lagers.
 
Idiotic...trying to turn a somewhat minor issue with one strain of dry yeast, from one manufacturer into another stupid "Dry -vs- Liquid" argument.

"Final nail," geez give me a break. You're acting like dry yeast was on it's last legs to begin with....But that hasn't been the case since the repeal of homebrew prohibition in 1978, when yeast no longer came in cakes in hot cargo ships and sat on grocery store shelves for god knows how long.
:rolleyes:

Even Palmer doesn't bash dry yeasts...

Yeast come in two main product forms, dry and liquid. (There is also another form, available as pure cultures on petri dishes or slants, but it is generally used as one would use liquid yeast.) Dry yeast are select, hardy strains that have been dehydrated for storability. There are a lot of yeast cells in a typical 7 gram packet. For best results, it needs to be re-hydrated before it is pitched. For the first-time brewer, a dry ale yeast is highly recommended.

Dry yeast is convenient for the beginning brewer because the packets provide a lot of viable yeast cells, they can be stored for extended periods of time and they can be prepared quickly on brewing day. It is common to use one or two packets (7 - 14 grams) of dried yeast for a typical five gallon batch. This amount of yeast, when properly re-hydrated, provides enough active yeast cells to ensure a strong fermentation. Dry yeast can be stored for extended periods (preferably in the refrigerator) but the packets do degrade with time. This is one of the pitfalls with brewing from the no-name yeast packets taped to the top of a can of malt extract. They are probably more than a year old and may not be very viable. It is better to buy another packet or three of a reputable brewer's yeast that has been kept in the refrigerator at the brewshop. Some leading and reliable brands of dry yeast are DCL Yeast, Yeast Labs (marketed by G.W. Kent, produced by Lallemand of Canada), Cooper's, DanStar (produced by Lallemand), Munton & Fison and Edme.

Dry yeasts are good but the rigor of the dehydration process limits the number of different ale strains that are available and in the case of dry lager yeast, eliminates them almost entirely. A few dry lager yeasts do exist, but popular opinion is that they behave more like ale yeasts than lager. DCL Yeast markets two strains of dry lager yeast, Saflager S-189 and S-23, though only S-23 is currently available in a homebrewing size. The recommended fermentation temperature is 48-59°F. I would advise you to use two packets per 5 gallon batch to be assured of a good pitching rate.

The only thing missing with dry yeast is real individuality, which is where liquid yeasts come in. Many more different strains of yeast are available in liquid form than in dry.

Liquid yeast used to come in 50 ml foil pouches, and did not contain as many yeast cells as in the dry packets. The yeast in these packages needed to be grown in a starter wort to bring the cell counts up to a more useful level. In the past few years, larger 175 ml pouches (Wyeast Labs) and ready-to-pitch tubes (White Labs) have become the most popular forms of liquid yeast packaging and contain enough viable cells to ferment a five gallon batch.

You're logic is like saying that the toyota recall was the nail in the coffin for the auto industry.

....I tend ot use more dry than anything else...it's way more cost effective....but there are more wet strains and you can wash an reuse or store..It's not really a vs question...they both work..It's NOT a superority thing at all....they all are excellent.

I have found that a lot of new brewers especially, THINK they HAVE to use liquid yeast, but in reality most ales can be made with Notty, Windsor, Us-05, Us-04 and many lagers with basic Saflager.....7-8 bucks a pop for liquid as opposed to $1.50-2.50 for dry, with more cell count, is imho just a waste of money for the majority of a brewer's recipe bank...most commercial ales us a limited range of strains, and those liquid strains are really the same strains that the afore mentioned dry strains cover, for example Us-05 is the famed "Chico strain", so if you are paying 7-8 bucks for Wyeast 1056 American/Chico Ale Yeast, and you STILL have to make a starter to have enough viable cells, then you are ripping yourself off, in terms of time and money....

I use dry yeast for 99% of my beers, for basic ales I use safale 05, for more british styles I us safale 04 and for basic lagers I use saflager..

The only time I use liquid yeast is if I am making a beer where the yeast drives the style, where certain flavor characteristics are derived from the yeast, such as phenols. Like Belgian beers, where you get spicy/peppery flavors from the yeast and higher temp fermentation. Or let's say a wheat beer (needing a lowly flocculant yest) or a Kholsch, where the style of the beer uses a specific yeast strain that is un available in dry form.

But if you are looking for a "clean" yeast profile, meaning about 90% of american ales, the 05, or nottingham is the way to go. Need "Bready" or yeasty for English ales, then 04 or windsor. Want a clean, low profile lager yeast- saflager usually does the trick.

Even if they slashed the prices of liquid yeast (which I can buy outdated tubes and smack packs for aboutt eh same price at my lhbs and all I have to do is make a starter for them, like I would anyway) I would still buy dry yeast for the majority of my beers. Sprinkling a huge cellcount without have to make a starter is a bigger plus for me for the majority of my brewing.
 
I think you misunderstood what some people were talking about. Many swear by dry yeast. Particularly US-04, US-05, and Nottingham. Notty has had a few quality control problems lately, but they seem to have corrected the issue. The dry yeast many ***** about is that little pack they stick to the top of canned LME. IMHO that sh*t isn't worth much. Some of the most experienced brewers on this site only use dry yeast unless they are looking for a very specific flavor profile. I usually am looking for a very specific flavor profile, but if I am looking for a very clean, neutral yeast, I will always grab US-05.

I agree. I use dry yeast often, and I use liquid yeast often. Dry yeast is convenient, great quality (usually!), and affordable. Liquid yeast comes in more varieties, but needs a starter so it's not as convenient.

I love doing impromptu brew days. At noon, I'll say, "Hey, it's raining. I'm going to brew!" and by 4 PM, I'm pitching some dry yeast into my finished wort. You can do that with liquid yeast. I culture some liquid yeasts, so I have a small variety, but it takes a few days to "wake up" the yeasts I've stored. Also, the packages don't last as long. Dry yeast can sit in my fridge for two years, and still be ready to pitch. I love it!
 
I am done using Lallemand products, because they are the only ingredient manufacturer that I have had repeated problems with; and the fact that they replaced a recalled batch with another batch that had pierced satchels from the date stamps reflects very poorly on them. Generally, however, I prefer dry yeast over liquid for cost and convenience reasons, but selection often dictates using a liquid yeast.
 
The OP is an example of an invitation to draw a cosmic inference from a single data set. Because one batch of Nottingham goes bad, we are asked whether or not it is the end of dry yeast as we know it.

The answer: NO

NB: I use both liquid and dry yeasts and like both.
 
If Wyeast and White Labs cut their retail sale price by 20% - 30% right now, perhaps we could keep an extra smack-pack as back-up. Could that possibly drive the final nail in the coffin of dry yeast? And would that be a good thing?

The cost for liquid yeast is not the yeast but shipping it 2nd day air to the stores. It costs us about $1.50 per smack pack or vial to be shipped to us.

The Pacman yeast cost about $3.30 per smack pack to be shipped to us. And when a store replaces the yeast for a customer, this compounds the problem. No store makes any money selling liquid yeast. It is a loss leader. You are asking the yeast manufacturer to sell the yeast at cost. The homebrew stores already do.

There is a little profit on dry yeast.

Just keepin' it real.

Forrest
 
The cost for liquid yeast is not the yeast but shipping it 2nd day air to the stores. It costs us about $1.50 per smack pack or vial to be shipped to us.

The Pacman yeast cost about $3.30 per smack pack to be shipped to us. And when a store replaces the yeast for a customer, this compounds the problem. No store makes any money selling liquid yeast. It is a loss leader. You are asking the yeast manufacturer to sell the yeast at cost. The homebrew stores already do.

There is a little profit on dry yeast.

Just keepin' it real.

Forrest

Good to know... Thanks for the info!
 
The cost for liquid yeast is not the yeast but shipping it 2nd day air to the stores. It costs us about $1.50 per smack pack or vial to be shipped to us.

The Pacman yeast cost about $3.30 per smack pack to be shipped to us. And when a store replaces the yeast for a customer, this compounds the problem. No store makes any money selling liquid yeast. It is a loss leader. You are asking the yeast manufacturer to sell the yeast at cost. The homebrew stores already do.

There is a little profit on dry yeast.

Just keepin' it real.

Forrest

Just as I was wondering why I clicked on this thread, Forrest drops some new info on this topic. Nifty!

As for the topic- Notty or S-05 for most basic American ales, though I've turned to liquid yeasts for British styles, namely because I like the flavor characteristics of a couple of strains that aren't available dry. S-04 is a great yeast, though, and I'm planning to use it in a beer I'm designing now to brew soon. Dry yeast is great at what it does well, and outside those parameters, liquid is also great.
 
Forrest - how come none of the US distributors carry dry yeasts like Brupaks Ale, Gervin English Ale, Youngs and Ritchies? Those are all good, cheap dry ale yeasts that have flavor profiles similar to Notty, US05 and S04, but are different enough to be interesting. I have good results with all of the above, but have to order them mail order from UK.
 
Forrest - how come none of the US distributors carry dry yeasts like Brupaks Ale, Gervin English Ale, Youngs and Ritchies? Those are all good, cheap dry ale yeasts that have flavor profiles similar to Notty, US05 and S04, but are different enough to be interesting. I have good results with all of the above, but have to order them mail order from UK.

There is not a US distributor of these yeasts. Homebrew stores generally order from a wholesaler that does the importing for them.

Sounds like you stumbled on to a new part time job importing dry yeast from England and selling it to homebrew stores. I'll be your first customer.

Forrest
 
Most of what you read on forums is anecdotal. The only way to truly know the state of dry yeast popularity would be to compare their sales vs. liquid over the past few years.

All I can add is that I always use dry yeast and I don't any complaints. It has never compromised the original vision for my beer.

I do want to try the White Labs WLP060 American Ale Yeast Blend, though. I'll go now to search the forum for reviews of it.
 
What is the reason they ship certain yeast in liquid? Are some yeast not able to survive drying or does it preserve some of the characteristics of the yeast better?
 
This is kinda a funny discussion... because from the folks I have talked with, my impression is that most US "Home Brewers" end up using dry bread yeast like Fleishmann's Rapid Rise for their beer, wine, and ciders..... Why? Because they can get it in town and it's cheap....

Personally, I don't like the stuff because it ferments *REALLY* hard, tends to blow out *Every* flavor and color and leaves things bland and nondescript...

Just using a proper "Beer" yeast puts us in the minority..... no matter whether it is liquid or dry yeast.....

Thanks

John
 
This is kinda a funny discussion... because from the folks I have talked with, my impression is that most US "Home Brewers" end up using dry bread yeast like Fleishmann's Rapid Rise for their beer, wine, and ciders..... Why? Because they can get it in town and it's cheap....

Uhm, Yikes!


I'm a fairly busy guy, and making a starter sometimes just isn't an option - I'll suddenly find time to brew and won't have a starter prepared, or I'll have to cancel a scheduled brew day because of unexpected circumstances. It's just easier to use dry yeast in that case. There's also the cost issue. I will absolutely use liquid yeast when I need a certain yeast character for a style.
 
You also have to keep in mind that we here at HBT are a very small portion of the homebrewing community. And I've only seen issues with a couple bad lots of Notty. Still plenty of love for dry yeast out there.
 
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