Electric panel power cord. Will this work?

[scottyb710]

Proper Neutral-to-Ground (Case) Connections

By Mike Holt, NEC Consultant for EC&M Magazine

Improper neutral-to-case connections can cause fire hazards, electrocution, improper operation of protection devices, and power quality problems. Therefore, it’s important to make them only at service equipment and on separately derived systems in accordance with 250.142 of the 2002 NEC.

How do you prevent fire, electric shock, or improper operation of circuit protection devices and other equipment? By stopping objectionable current (neutral return current) from flowing on electrical equipment, grounding paths, and bonding paths as required by the NEC in 250.6. To do this, you must keep the grounded (neutral) conductor separated from the metal parts of equipment, except as required for service equipment in 250.24(B) and on separately derived systems in 250.30(A)(1) and 250.142. Making the proper neutral-to-case connections is the key.

 

[wbarber69]

So you think that it matters one bit weather the neutral and ground are bonded in this box or the one on the wall. The neutral leg is the powers only path back to ground. All electricity flows from source to ground it's all about the resistance it encounters on its way there. Tying your neutral and ground together in one appliance is no different than building your control panel directly in your breaker panel. It doesn't matter where they bond because at the end of the day they are already bonded. Either in your panel, in the walls somewhere. Or through the earth itself. Look up at your transformer. Only 2 wires connect to it. Both are hot. There is no neutral from the high lines. There is a grounding wire that follows the pole to the ground and that is connected through the transformer housing and then comes from the pole into your mains panel where it's labeled as neutral. Where your panel has its own ground path that terminates into the neutral block right in the panel. Every single neutral in your home is tied directly to ground at your mains panel. So explain to me how it's any different to tie them together at the receptacle or in the appliance or only in the panel. A neutral wire carries no current until current is applied to the hot side of the circuit traveling through the resistive path of the device and then back out to ground. That's how electricity works. No draw then no current travels down the neutral, period. Unless something is wired incorrectly. At which point it doesn't matter anyway. Because your going to have a fault. The reason you can't tie a hot wire directly to ground is because the wire cannot handle the unimpeded load of current directly back to earth. It's only when we create resistance on that line that we can draw from a power source. A motor requires kinetic energy and torque to turn over so that energy is processed through the motor and expressed through movement or heat. Then that electrical current is then passed back directly to earth through either the neutral or ground. If a neutral is soooo important, like I said, then why do some devices not have them. Like a hot water heater. Two hots and a ground. Because that current is absorbed and reflected as heat energy in the water itself and that current has an unrestricted path back to earth through the water supply. And as a redundancy there is also a ground wire attached to the metal housing. All a 120v circuit is is 1 leg of your 240v service. Which comes into your house over 3 wires. One of which goes directly to ground. The neutral lines that you speak of are only present on your side if the panel. And they all go back to ground.


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[scottyb710]

I'm just stating what code is the two wires can only be bonded at the first means of disconnect.If you have a sub panel in your home they can't be bonded there the must be separatedin the sub panel. I gave code references. You don't want current on your grounded wire it could energize metal siren the line. And neutrals carry current.

 

[wbarber69]

The entire earth carries current too. You guys might be able to copy code verbatim from Wikipedia but you don't know what your talking about.


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[scottyb710]

I'm done fighting about it people can Google it and find the answer that's way it trips afci breakers. It's not safe.

 

[scottyb710]

And transformers make there own neutral if you set a 480 to 208 transformer you don't run a neutral to it it creates its own neutral.

 

[scottyb710]

What ever dude your not an electrician or you wouldn't go against code. If I have one ground and neutral touch in a sub panel it will fail my inspection.

 

[wbarber69]

Nothing makes a neutral. The neutral is earth. Step outside if you don't believe me. Look up at the pole. There is an earth contact directly attached to the transformer running all the way down the pole to the ground. That same wire travels to your service panel labeled as neutral. And then it's bonded to ground inside that panel.


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[scottyb710]

What size ground do you need fit a two hundred amp service and hire many sources of ground do you need. What size ground can you run to you ground rod.

 

[wbarber69]

You do know that a lightbulb will fire right up with nothing more than a hot wire and a wire attached directly to the earth.


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[scottyb710]

I'm taking about a transformer in a building like a 480 to 208 transformer they make their own neutral.

 

[wbarber69]

They don't make neutral they pass earth ground.


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[wbarber69]

208 is 3 phase so what you are referring to is not neutral it's a third hot leg.


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[scottyb710]

208 can be single phase now I know you don't know what your taking about. Your house is 208 single phase.

 

[wbarber69]

No my house is 125v double pole single phase.


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[wbarber69]

208 "single" is just 1 hot leg of a 3 phase system.


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[scottyb710]

No your house has two 120 hots and one neutral that's 208 single phase. Three phase has three hots.I'm done.

 

[wbarber69]

We have 250v line systems where I live. It's 2 x 125. What your talking about only exists in larger cities where the substations are not 100s of miles away.


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[wbarber69]

My meter reads between 122-127 depending on how far I get from the panel. Power in these areas can even be effected by elevation.


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[wbarber69]

I wish I lived in an area where I could get 208 or even 230. It would cost a lot less to wire things up.


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[scottyb710]

You could get a buck and boost transformer to get down to 208 but upfront cost would be kind of high.

 

[wbarber69]

I could also buy a three phase converter but I ain't got a grand to dump in it when I haven't even finished my HLT yet. This hobby is already draining me.


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[scottyb710]

Sorry for the thread Jack just want everyone to be safe.

 

[sar_dog_1]

Uummmm ok.....:-/