Ok I understand better now. So does it mean that I can use 16 amp circuit breakers instead of the 15 amp as per the plan ? Because I found these and am not sure if I can use it.
As for the emergency switch, do I need a normally open one ?
Electric brewery plans - need help
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Ok I understand better now. So does it mean that I can use 16 amp circuit breakers instead of the 15 amp as per the plan ? Because I found these and am not sure if I can use it.
As for the emergency switch, do I need a normally open one ?
If you draw 15 amps, then a 16 amp breaker is not enough, you have to expect some spikes in the current.
Look at this site: http://www.wikihow.com/Determine-Amperage-of-Circuit-Breaker
Look at this site: http://www.wikihow.com/Determine-Amperage-of-Circuit-Breaker
Ok. Looking at the electric diagram of the first page of this thread, it seems that the 15 amps breakers are wired to the pumps, the PIDs and the contactors' coils. The pumps I have are the March 809 HS-C, with 0.29kW at 115V, so 3.1 amps max. Don't know about the contactors tough.
So why 15 amps are needed in the first place ?
And are you guys using circuit breakers (UL489) or supplementary protectors (UL1077) in your panels ?
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Yes, it should be normally open.
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I use 15 Amp breakers for the pumps, PIDs, and illuminated switches. 25 Amp breakers for the element circuits. The 15 Amp breakers are to protect the circuitry involving the 120V wiring and components, which is what the components and wiring are rated to. 15A is more than the load they see in normal use, but the breakers are there to protect against damage/fire in the event of a short.
ejluttmann
Well-Known Member
In general, breakers are meant to protect the wires from overheating and causing fire/damage. You need to make sure the wire is adequately protected by an fuse or breaker based on its rating. If I switch to a smaller wire size after a breaker, I'll protect it with a fuse.
Finally, I got to test my system today. I followed the exact wiring of the first page of this thread. I filled my BK with water and fired on the element. My PID was set to just below boiling. Everything worked fine for about 10 minutes. Temp was raising steadily. And then I heard the contactor click, and the element switch's light turned off, as well as the element. I'm at a loss here. What could have been wrong ? I doubled checked my wirings, and all is fine.
I think I need help here...
I think I need help here...
FuzzeWuzze
I Love DIY
Wait...why would you contactor be clicking period if you arent touching the switch?
Does the contactor open and close when you toggle the switch as you expect?
The contactor toggling off can only happen if its losing voltage across its input pins which should only happen if you turn your switch off.
I think I found something. I tried with an old switch I had instead of the one installed in the panel fot the element, and it worked. I bought lighted switches on ebay, and it may be that I just got what I paid for 
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I think I found something. I tried with an old switch I had instead of the one installed in the panel fot the element, and it worked. I bought lighted switches on ebay, and it may be that I just got what I paid for
Yup. I recommend good quality ones from automationdirect.com or my friend's shop ebrewsupply.com
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Cheers to a successful project!
So this just happen up stream i have a 50 amp spa panel to the emergancy shutoff. Then i have a marine 50 amp bus bar with 10 g wire to 30 amp breakers. As you can see the 10g wire is fried. My question is what caused this and do I increase the gauge of the wire?
View attachment 1449099643897.jpg
View attachment 1449099643897.jpg
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10g should've been fine. There appears to have been more current flowing through it than it's rated for, but my question is why didn't the breaker trip? Or did it?
Scary. How confident are you in the quality of your crimps? What crimp tool are you using?
FuzzeWuzze
I Love DIY
I can almost already tell just looking at the picture its the crimper. I can see zero marks on those jackets.
All of the scorching appears to be on the ends with crimped on connectors which probably means it was arcing or something because of a bad connection.
As an example if you look in the middle of this image from my build to the middle contactor left pin you can sort of see what the crimper did, it has two giant indentations where the crimper came down. You can also see on the left most contactor what the connectors look like before crimping..which honestly look exactly like his...they dont even look crimped. Im guessing he just had really bad crimpers, or tried to just crimp them using pliers or something like some people do.
I recommend that he buy a set of ratcheting crimpers and remake all his crimped connections properly. I used these from Amazon for dozens and dozens of connections and they work great.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002STTSY/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
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It looked to me like there was damage on the jacket on the black wire. Or is that a shadow?
How many of them were loose? This is making *me* nervous for you. For the sake of your home and family maybe you should pull those wires out and try again with a better crimping tool?
Harbor Freight crimper and crimps?! Now I'm really nervous for you. Oh boy.
http://toolmonger.com/2007/02/16/test-to-destruction-crimp-terminals/
http://toolmonger.com/2007/02/16/test-to-destruction-crimp-terminals/
thanks for your concern. I took the initiative to check other screws and terminals because of the intial issue. Now that i know the screws and terminals are well placed. I feel i can breath easier. I also thank everyone whose helped me with my problem.
I recommend this, I own one and it crips like a beast. I see 3 burned wires from what all appear to be bad crimps
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0069TRKJ0/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0069TRKJ0/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
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Ah, my mistake, then. I thought that 10g black wire had burnt along the length of it, which could mean a whole other problem in itself.
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If that were the case, it may suggest that there would be something drawing more current through that wire than it is rated for, causing it to heat up enough to melt the insulation. This is usually a result of a short circuit, but there could be other causes. This is what circuit breakers are designed to protect from (preventing fire hazards). That's why I had asked if your breaker tripped.
But, it appears that the other commenters have a keener eye than I do, and noticed that the issue was with the wire terminals.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
A lot of their tools are fine... Especially something as simple as a crimper... they sell cheapy ones and the better style ones that are leaps and bounds better as well..
I bought a $40 "thorsen" brand torque wrench from my local autostore only to find the exact same wrench made made the same people in china sold at harbor frieght for $9 with a case which the $40 one did not have. after buying them both to compare side by side I returned the $40 one.
coincidentally harbor freight sells the same style smaller electrical pin crimps as my employer pays over $300 a piece for....
Indeed, but it's a gamble. I just personally wouldn't gamble in this instance. I mean... it's already failed here multiple times! He's lucky he caught it.
I actually have the HF torque wrench too! :rockin:
FuzzeWuzze
I Love DIY
I think the key is to get a ratcheting crimper. Without it you have no idea if your crimping properly. I'd want another closer shot, but based on the one that he showed us none of them look crimped at all. They should look flattened to hell.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
Agreed
I didnt use a ratchet crimper but then again I remember I had very sore hands from squeezing the crap out of my cheap crimps.. and I gave them all tugs to ensure they were tight.
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The way I was taught was to strip wire 2X length of terminal, fold wire over, insert into terminal, crimp, then solder the connection.
terminal manufacturers provide specific instructions on how to properly install their devices. i personally would not deviate from their directions.
I was taught not to do that because the solder wicks into the wire and stiffens/hardens it, making it much easier for the connection to fail from bends or vibrations.
Can you fit a doubled over 10awg wire in the barrel of a 10awg terminal anyway?
FuzzeWuzze
I Love DIY
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I used one size higher when I folded the wire for some connections. Some I was able to fit the folded wire into the same terminal size. Note: this was only for the 120V connections, i.e. ~18AWG
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No. You can with 18AWG, etc. And it fits better.
