Electric brewery build

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

My plan is to solder a metal box onto the kettle around the element nut. I'll let you know how that goes in a couple months....

 

[nostalgia]

Yeah I was envisioning the same thing I"ll keep an eye on it, and if it's a problem I'll go to the bigger box. I had bought a 2-gang metal box, which was too small.

-Joe

 

[Tiber_Brew]

I really like what kal did:

http://theelectricbrewery.com/heating-elements

I've seen that, too. I'm leaning towards doing something like that on mine. I might mount the NPS locknut differently, but use a similar weatherproof box.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

I envision that siliconed box separating after a few heat cycles/banging it around. Be careful not to tug on the cord at all. I had to redo my cords from silicone to JB weld. Silicone makes a good seal, but it's not a very good mechanical fastener.

I really like what kal did:

http://theelectricbrewery.com/heating-elements

I agree...
I mounted elements in my HLT, BK, and RIMs heater the "Kal" way...
Mine are mounted into welded coupling.
Very solid, serviceable and no leaks.

 

[erikrocks]

Question: It looks like you used these fuse holders. THey're only a 10a max...wouldn't yous need a fuse holder that could handle a larger load?

 

[nostalgia]

Yes, those are the fuse holders (they're crap, btw). They're only holding a 1A fuse, so they're plenty heavy enough.

They just fuse the power that drives the SSRs and the cooling fan. According to the manual, power consumption is <= 5 watt. 5 watt at 110v is 5/110, or 0.045 amps.

-Joe

 

[erikrocks]

I see. I'm asking because I'm trying to put together a very simple RIMS and I need a fuse to protect my PID (and allow me to transition from 12awg to 16awg wire). I'll be using a 1500w element into a 20a GFI. I'll use a .5a fuse...but my fuse holder doesn't have to be rated for the max power of the supplying outlet (20a)?

 

[nostalgia]

No, definitely not. The 20A breaker in the box protects the 12awg wire going from the panel to the outlet. The small fuse will protect the smaller wire and PID.

I used 18awg and it was more than heavy enough.

-Joe

 

[Tiber_Brew]

I'm using these fuse holders to protect my PIDs. The PIDs use < 5 watts at 120VAC. The ones you're using will work just fine also. Having the panel mount fuse holders would make replacing the fuse a little easier, too. Nothing wrong with your setup.

Erik

(yes, Erik rocks)

 

[Tiber_Brew]

I agree...
I mounted elements in my HLT, BK, and RIMs heater the "Kal" way...
Mine are mounted into welded coupling.
Very solid, serviceable and no leaks.

Got pics of that, Ed?

I'm just about at that that stage of my build, so I'm very interested in element mounting methods...

Thanks
Erik

 

[erikrocks]

No, definitely not. The 20A breaker in the box protects the 12awg wire going from the panel to the outlet. The small fuse will protect the smaller wire and PID.

I used 18awg and it was more than heavy enough.

-Joe

Well, I'm not planning on having a breaker in my box. I'll need to feed the 12awg to the fuse and then the 18awg out of the fuse and to the pid...and the fuse will have to be able to handle the max load of the outlet, right?

 

[nostalgia]

No. The fuse will only have to handle whatever load will be placed on the things it is protecting. So a 1A fuse will be fine.

Like look at my setup: the 110v power comes from a 10A breaker in the box. I can still use a 1A fuse to protect the PID.

-Joe

 

[erikrocks]

I think what's confusing me is that you have a 10a breaker leading to a 10a (max) fuse holder. So if there was anything more than 10a coming to that fuse holder, the breaker would trip before something bad would happen to the fuse holder. But I guess the rating of the fuse holder doesn't really matter, as long as your FUSE is less that 10a (which it will be, of course).

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Got pics of that, Ed?

I'm just about at that that stage of my build, so I'm very interested in element mounting methods...

Thanks
Erik

I did not document the process of creating the box or the technique of using the washers and o-ring... Kal did an excellent job of documenting that on his website here:
http://theelectricbrewery.com/heating-elements

Like I said, the only difference is I used a welded coupling. In fact, I used a 2" coupling and a 2"x1" bushing so there is a large flat surface for the washers / box to sit against. Here is a picture of the coupling, bushing and the element (without the box) to give you an idea of the size:

 

[nostalgia]

So if there was anything more than 10a coming to that fuse holder, the breaker would trip before something bad would happen to the fuse holder. But I guess the rating of the fuse holder doesn't really matter, as long as your FUSE is less that 10a (which it will be, of course).

Exactly, because if there were a draw on the circuit greater than the fuse, then the fuse would blow.

Even if there are other draws elsewhere on the circuit, the fuse holder will only "see" whatever load is behind it, which will be capped by the size of the fuse.

-Joe

 

[Tiber_Brew]

I did not document the process of creating the box or the technique of using the washers and o-ring... Kal did an excellent job of documenting that on his website here:
http://theelectricbrewery.com/heating-elements

Like I said, the only difference is I used a welded coupling. In fact, I used a 2" coupling and a 2"x1" bushing so there is a large flat surface for the washers / box to sit against. Here is a picture of the coupling, bushing and the element (without the box) to give you an idea of the size:

Thanks, Ed. I've looked at Kal's website quite a bit, and like what he did mostly. I was thinking of welding or soldering the locknut right onto the kettle wall, then securing the electrical box with gasket to that. Like you said, a nice flat surface for a good seal and strength.

Erik

 

[nostalgia]

Wet test #2 in progress. I'm very glad I'm anal about safety features because I would certainly fry myself otherwise. This time I put the heatstick back together, put it in the water and turned everything on. The minute I switched the element's power I heard CLICK as the GFCI blew. Guess who forgot to screw the power leads onto the heating element? :/

But it's been running an hour now and all seems well. I'm running at 70% power and maintaining a decent boil. I'm going to let it go a little longer, shut 'er down and check for leaks in the morning.

It's so sick to just push buttons and have it work. It's like I'm brewing in the future

-Joe

 

[P-J]

... The minute I switched the element's power I heard CLICK as the GFCI blew. Guess who forgot to screw the power leads onto the heating element? ...

I'm delighted that you have a GFCI in place. It truly is a life saver.

However, your post made me choke with laughter.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Wet test #2 in progress. I'm very glad I'm anal about safety features because I would certainly fry myself otherwise. This time I put the heatstick back together, put it in the water and turned everything on. The minute I switched the element's power I heard CLICK as the GFCI blew. Guess who forgot to screw the power leads onto the heating element? :/

But it's been running an hour now and all seems well. I'm running at 70% power and maintaining a decent boil. I'm going to let it go a little longer, shut 'er down and check for leaks in the morning.

It's so sick to just push buttons and have it work. It's like I'm brewing in the future

-Joe

Joe,

Congrats on what appears to be a successful wet test!

Oh... and nice work testing out the safety features before you really need them

 

[Tiber_Brew]

Oh... and nice work testing out the safety features before you really need them

I'm pretty sure he needed those safety features that time!

 

[caskconditioned]

I did not document the process of creating the box or the technique of using the washers and o-ring... Kal did an excellent job of documenting that on his website here:
http://theelectricbrewery.com/heating-elements

Like I said, the only difference is I used a welded coupling. In fact, I used a 2" coupling and a 2"x1" bushing so there is a large flat surface for the washers / box to sit against. Here is a picture of the coupling, bushing and the element (without the box) to give you an idea of the size:

Ed - do you happen to have any pics of the box actually attached to the keg? I'm also planning on welding a coupling to the keg (and using the same box as Kal does). So I would love to see the end solution so that I can get a complete idea of what I need to do

 

[kal]

Thanks, Ed. I've looked at Kal's website quite a bit, and like what he did mostly. I was thinking of welding or soldering the locknut right onto the kettle wall, then securing the electrical box with gasket to that. Like you said, a nice flat surface for a good seal and strength.

If you're using keggles, welding can often be easier since the walls are nice and thick and easy to weld with.

In my setup I used Blichmann 18 gal wall kettles and every welder I talked to was scared to weld on them. They told me they couldn't guarantee that they wouldn't punch through the wall by mistake when welding on sometime to attach the element.

So I went with a 100% weldless solution mimicking exactly what John Blichmann did with his kettles.

Nothing wrong with a good permenant welded solution if you can do it!

Kal

 

[Tiber_Brew]

If you're using keggles, welding can often be easier since the walls are nice and thick and easy to weld with.

In my setup I used Blichmann 18 gal wall kettles and every welder I talked to was scared to weld on them. They told me they couldn't guarantee that they wouldn't punch through the wall by mistake when welding on sometime to attach the element.

So I went with a 100% weldless solution mimicking exactly what John Blichmann did with his kettles.

Nothing wrong with a good permenant welded solution if you can do it!

Kal

My thoughts exactly, Kal. I know that your Blichmann kettles posed a problem for welding, and I think you did an outstanding job with the weldless configuration. You've got something to be proud of there.

I am using converted kegs for mine, so I am going to do what I mentioned above, but other than that, I'm going to use your method as guide.

TB

 

[kal]

I am using converted kegs for mine, so I am going to do what I mentioned above, but other than that, I'm going to use your method as guide.

Excellent! That's exactly what I'd do if I had used keggles (welded coupler followed by a waterproof 2-gang box to protect it). Grounded, safe, and will take a beating!

Kal

 

[Tiber_Brew]

Excellent! That's exactly what I'd do if I had used keggles (welded coupler followed by a waterproof 2-gang box to protect it). Grounded, safe, and will take a beating!

Kal

Thanks, Kal. Seems that (or similar) route is the way I'm going.

Can I PM you with questions about your build? I don't want to hijack Joe's thread...

(Sorry Joe!)

 

[kal]

Or easier still, email me at [email protected]

Kal

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Thanks, Kal. Seems that (or similar) route is the way I'm going.

Can I PM you with questions about your build? I don't want to hijack Joe's thread...

(Sorry Joe!)

TB,

I agree with not hijacking Joe's thread (sorry Joe), but instead of taking your questions private, why not just direct them back into your own thread?

Your questions and the discussion that follows may help someone else that has the same questions.

Ed

 

[shushikiary]

I envision that siliconed box separating after a few heat cycles/banging it around. Be careful not to tug on the cord at all. I had to redo my cords from silicone to JB weld. Silicone makes a good seal, but it's not a very good mechanical fastener.

I really like what kal did:

http://theelectricbrewery.com/heating-elements

In my experience, I tried to do this to my keggle, but it didnt work because the box lid was too thick to put in and still be able to get the nut on the element inside the keg. So I came up with a little different solution:

I took a 1/2 inch wide 1/4 inch thick piece of steel bar and enamel coated it, then drilled two holes in it, one at the top and bottom, then did the same on the keg, then put a 1/4 x 2.5 inch bolt through it with a nut on the back of the keg side and tightened it. The Box is then bolted to the bar in the same manor, but using 1/4 x 1/2 bolts. It's on there lock a rock, I can pick the keg while it's full up with those bars.

 

[stevehaun]

I had two 1/4" stainless steel bolts welded to my HLT and BK. I then used a single gang waterproof box. I cut a hole in the back of it similar to Kal. After bolting it to the kettle, I used silicone caulk to seal around the coupling. BTW, my element couplings are welded in.

 

[stevehaun]

Here are some pictures of it. I am too amish to figure out how to make my pics appear in my post.
http://picasaweb.google.com/sehaun3333/ElectricalBox#