Boerderij_Kabouter
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My plan is to solder a metal box onto the kettle around the element nut. I'll let you know how that goes in a couple months....
Electric brewery build
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nostalgia
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Yeah I was envisioning the same thing 
I"ll keep an eye on it, and if it's a problem I'll go to the bigger box. I had bought a 2-gang metal box, which was too small.
-Joe
I"ll keep an eye on it, and if it's a problem I'll go to the bigger box. I had bought a 2-gang metal box, which was too small.-Joe
I've seen that, too. I'm leaning towards doing something like that on mine. I might mount the NPS locknut differently, but use a similar weatherproof box.
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I envision that siliconed box separating after a few heat cycles/banging it around. Be careful not to tug on the cord at all. I had to redo my cords from silicone to JB weld. Silicone makes a good seal, but it's not a very good mechanical fastener.
I really like what kal did:
http://theelectricbrewery.com/heating-elements
I agree...
I mounted elements in my HLT, BK, and RIMs heater the "Kal" way...
Mine are mounted into welded coupling.
Very solid, serviceable and no leaks.
erikrocks
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nostalgia
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Yes, those are the fuse holders (they're crap, btw). They're only holding a 1A fuse, so they're plenty heavy enough.
They just fuse the power that drives the SSRs and the cooling fan. According to the manual, power consumption is <= 5 watt. 5 watt at 110v is 5/110, or 0.045 amps.
-Joe
They just fuse the power that drives the SSRs and the cooling fan. According to the manual, power consumption is <= 5 watt. 5 watt at 110v is 5/110, or 0.045 amps.
-Joe
erikrocks
Well-Known Member
I see. I'm asking because I'm trying to put together a very simple RIMS and I need a fuse to protect my PID (and allow me to transition from 12awg to 16awg wire). I'll be using a 1500w element into a 20a GFI. I'll use a .5a fuse...but my fuse holder doesn't have to be rated for the max power of the supplying outlet (20a)?
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nostalgia
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No, definitely not. The 20A breaker in the box protects the 12awg wire going from the panel to the outlet. The small fuse will protect the smaller wire and PID.
I used 18awg and it was more than heavy enough.
-Joe
I used 18awg and it was more than heavy enough.
-Joe
Got pics of that, Ed?
I'm just about at that that stage of my build, so I'm very interested in element mounting methods...
Thanks
Erik
erikrocks
Well-Known Member
Well, I'm not planning on having a breaker in my box. I'll need to feed the 12awg to the fuse and then the 18awg out of the fuse and to the pid...and the fuse will have to be able to handle the max load of the outlet, right?
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nostalgia
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No. The fuse will only have to handle whatever load will be placed on the things it is protecting. So a 1A fuse will be fine.
Like look at my setup: the 110v power comes from a 10A breaker in the box. I can still use a 1A fuse to protect the PID.
-Joe
Like look at my setup: the 110v power comes from a 10A breaker in the box. I can still use a 1A fuse to protect the PID.
-Joe
erikrocks
Well-Known Member
I think what's confusing me is that you have a 10a breaker leading to a 10a (max) fuse holder. So if there was anything more than 10a coming to that fuse holder, the breaker would trip before something bad would happen to the fuse holder. But I guess the rating of the fuse holder doesn't really matter, as long as your FUSE is less that 10a (which it will be, of course).
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I did not document the process of creating the box or the technique of using the washers and o-ring... Kal did an excellent job of documenting that on his website here:
http://theelectricbrewery.com/heating-elements
Like I said, the only difference is I used a welded coupling. In fact, I used a 2" coupling and a 2"x1" bushing so there is a large flat surface for the washers / box to sit against. Here is a picture of the coupling, bushing and the element (without the box) to give you an idea of the size:
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nostalgia
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Exactly, because if there were a draw on the circuit greater than the fuse, then the fuse would blow.
Even if there are other draws elsewhere on the circuit, the fuse holder will only "see" whatever load is behind it, which will be capped by the size of the fuse.
-Joe
I did not document the process of creating the box or the technique of using the washers and o-ring... Kal did an excellent job of documenting that on his website here:
http://theelectricbrewery.com/heating-elements
Like I said, the only difference is I used a welded coupling. In fact, I used a 2" coupling and a 2"x1" bushing so there is a large flat surface for the washers / box to sit against. Here is a picture of the coupling, bushing and the element (without the box) to give you an idea of the size:
Thanks, Ed. I've looked at Kal's website quite a bit, and like what he did mostly. I was thinking of welding or soldering the locknut right onto the kettle wall, then securing the electrical box with gasket to that. Like you said, a nice flat surface for a good seal and strength.
Erik
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nostalgia
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Wet test #2 in progress. I'm very glad I'm anal about safety features because I would certainly fry myself otherwise. This time I put the heatstick back together, put it in the water and turned everything on. The minute I switched the element's power I heard CLICK as the GFCI blew. Guess who forgot to screw the power leads onto the heating element? :/
But it's been running an hour now and all seems well. I'm running at 70% power and maintaining a decent boil. I'm going to let it go a little longer, shut 'er down and check for leaks in the morning.
It's so sick to just push buttons and have it work. It's like I'm brewing in the future
-Joe
But it's been running an hour now and all seems well. I'm running at 70% power and maintaining a decent boil. I'm going to let it go a little longer, shut 'er down and check for leaks in the morning.
It's so sick to just push buttons and have it work. It's like I'm brewing in the future
-Joe
I'm delighted that you have a GFCI in place. It truly is a life saver.
However, your post made me choke with laughter.
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Wet test #2 in progress. I'm very glad I'm anal about safety features because I would certainly fry myself otherwise. This time I put the heatstick back together, put it in the water and turned everything on. The minute I switched the element's power I heard CLICK as the GFCI blew. Guess who forgot to screw the power leads onto the heating element? :/
But it's been running an hour now and all seems well. I'm running at 70% power and maintaining a decent boil. I'm going to let it go a little longer, shut 'er down and check for leaks in the morning.
It's so sick to just push buttons and have it work. It's like I'm brewing in the future
-Joe
Joe,
Congrats on what appears to be a successful wet test!
Oh... and nice work testing out the safety features before you really need them
Oh... and nice work testing out the safety features before you really need them
I'm pretty sure he needed those safety features that time! 
caskconditioned
Well-Known Member
Ed - do you happen to have any pics of the box actually attached to the keg? I'm also planning on welding a coupling to the keg (and using the same box as Kal does). So I would love to see the end solution so that I can get a complete idea of what I need to doI did not document the process of creating the box or the technique of using the washers and o-ring... Kal did an excellent job of documenting that on his website here:
http://theelectricbrewery.com/heating-elements
Like I said, the only difference is I used a welded coupling. In fact, I used a 2" coupling and a 2"x1" bushing so there is a large flat surface for the washers / box to sit against. Here is a picture of the coupling, bushing and the element (without the box) to give you an idea of the size:
kal
Well-Known Member
If you're using keggles, welding can often be easier since the walls are nice and thick and easy to weld with.
In my setup I used Blichmann 18 gal wall kettles and every welder I talked to was scared to weld on them. They told me they couldn't guarantee that they wouldn't punch through the wall by mistake when welding on sometime to attach the element.
So I went with a 100% weldless solution mimicking exactly what John Blichmann did with his kettles.
Nothing wrong with a good permenant welded solution if you can do it!
Kal
My thoughts exactly, Kal. I know that your Blichmann kettles posed a problem for welding, and I think you did an outstanding job with the weldless configuration. You've got something to be proud of there.
I am using converted kegs for mine, so I am going to do what I mentioned above, but other than that, I'm going to use your method as guide.
TB
kal
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Excellent! That's exactly what I'd do if I had used keggles (welded coupler followed by a waterproof 2-gang box to protect it). Grounded, safe, and will take a beating!
Kal
kal
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TB,
I agree with not hijacking Joe's thread (sorry Joe), but instead of taking your questions private, why not just direct them back into your own thread?
Your questions and the discussion that follows may help someone else that has the same questions.
Ed
shushikiary
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I envision that siliconed box separating after a few heat cycles/banging it around. Be careful not to tug on the cord at all. I had to redo my cords from silicone to JB weld. Silicone makes a good seal, but it's not a very good mechanical fastener.
I really like what kal did:
http://theelectricbrewery.com/heating-elements
In my experience, I tried to do this to my keggle, but it didnt work because the box lid was too thick to put in and still be able to get the nut on the element inside the keg. So I came up with a little different solution:
I took a 1/2 inch wide 1/4 inch thick piece of steel bar and enamel coated it, then drilled two holes in it, one at the top and bottom, then did the same on the keg, then put a 1/4 x 2.5 inch bolt through it with a nut on the back of the keg side and tightened it. The Box is then bolted to the bar in the same manor, but using 1/4 x 1/2 bolts. It's on there lock a rock, I can pick the keg while it's full up with those bars.
I had two 1/4" stainless steel bolts welded to my HLT and BK. I then used a single gang waterproof box. I cut a hole in the back of it similar to Kal. After bolting it to the kettle, I used silicone caulk to seal around the coupling. BTW, my element couplings are welded in.
Here are some pictures of it. I am too amish to figure out how to make my pics appear in my post.
http://picasaweb.google.com/sehaun3333/ElectricalBox#
http://picasaweb.google.com/sehaun3333/ElectricalBox#
BrewBeemer
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Joe,
how is that PVC bell box holding up mounted against your pots?
Before water hits boiling temp PVC pipe is like boiled spaghetti you can tie it in knot.
how is that PVC bell box holding up mounted against your pots?
Before water hits boiling temp PVC pipe is like boiled spaghetti you can tie it in knot.
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nostalgia
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Finally starting some work on the stand. I had purchased some rolling carts rated to 500lbs per shelf, so I used that as the base. They were a little too narrow, so I'll be using bedframe steel to make the parts that the vessels sit on.
So here's the mockup. The wood crosspieces will be steel, either bolted or welded to the inside of the main beams.
Bottom of the boil kettle:
And the bottom of the HLT:
This is my first brewstand build, so input is most definitely welcome.
-Joe
So here's the mockup. The wood crosspieces will be steel, either bolted or welded to the inside of the main beams.
Bottom of the boil kettle:
And the bottom of the HLT:
This is my first brewstand build, so input is most definitely welcome.
-Joe
ScubaSteve
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I think it looks pretty good, but really, no need to have it so high! You could probably drop it 10" and adjust your butterfly valves to still be pretty reachable. Those kettles are kinda like the centerpiece...I think you could make a <relatively> compact rig by bringing everything closer together. For that matter, where is the top shelf? Will it support the weight? Could you bring the drums together and have the mashtun under them? You could still stir, plus you could add strike water and recirc by gravity.....still only needing 1 pump.
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nostalgia
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Thanks Steve. The height is just for the mockup. It's going to be substantially lower in the finished product.
The distances between things are because I'm planning on another of those stainless kettles in the middle. The space there is just about right for one to fit with insulation.
The top shelf is in my kitchen That's actually why we bought these - they were cheaper than stainless countertops, even with the legs and wheels. It's a solid stainless shelf, so I couldn't use it anyway with the bottom drains.
Since I'm batch sparging, I should still only need one pump, right?
-Joe
The distances between things are because I'm planning on another of those stainless kettles in the middle. The space there is just about right for one to fit with insulation.
The top shelf is in my kitchen
That's actually why we bought these - they were cheaper than stainless countertops, even with the legs and wheels. It's a solid stainless shelf, so I couldn't use it anyway with the bottom drains.Since I'm batch sparging, I should still only need one pump, right?
-Joe
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nostalgia
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Ok, just about ready to brew! I decided to simplify and get rid of the cross rails entirely. Just the main beams, which works out beautifully.
The only issue is I had to mount them inside the tubes instead of putting the L on top. It should still be plenty strong enough. I did dips on the rails before adding the wood supports (to distribute the load to the bottom shelf) and they didn't even deflect with my 200# weight concentrated in the center.
If I find some time to plumb in the next few days, we may see first brew this weekend!
-Joe
The only issue is I had to mount them inside the tubes instead of putting the L on top. It should still be plenty strong enough. I did dips on the rails before adding the wood supports (to distribute the load to the bottom shelf) and they didn't even deflect with my 200# weight concentrated in the center.
If I find some time to plumb in the next few days, we may see first brew this weekend!
-Joe
klyph
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What do you suppose your max batch size will be with those vessels and that mash tun? I think the mash tun will be your limiting factor.
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nostalgia
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Yeah, that MLT is only a temporary apparatus until I decide on something bigger. It's 50 quart, so according to my calculator here, I can max out at about 30lbs of grain, assuming 1.25qt of water per 1lb of grain and 1/2 gallon of deadspace.
So for an 11 gallon batch, that equates to a max of 1.075 at 75% efficiency. For a 16.5 gallon batch, 1.050. A 5.5 batch would net me 1.151
-Joe
So for an 11 gallon batch, that equates to a max of 1.075 at 75% efficiency. For a 16.5 gallon batch, 1.050. A 5.5 batch would net me 1.151
-Joe
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nostalgia
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First brew on the new system right now! Click here to watch.
-Joe
-Joe
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nostalgia
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Well, the system performed flawlessly. I could keep a good boil in 7 gallons at 70% power, and having the PID controlled HLT was sooooooo nice!
-Joe
-Joe
