Efficiency Importance?

[Newton]

I'm a noob to all grain and this forum, so please don't take this question as if I mean disrespect toward anyone. But after reading several all grain forums over the past month or so I've noticed that alot of people are very concerned about efficiency. Why is that? I understand if you are a commercial brewer a 10% efficiency difference could mean thousands of dollars, but in the case of a 5 or 10 gallon batch it means a buck or two. Just curious.

Ben

 

[Denny]

"Why is that?" is a very astute question! And one that has always baffled me, too. For one thing, I think too many people tend to look at it as a sign of brewing prowess...the higher your efficiency, the better the brewer you must be....which to me is a false relationship. Also, because commercial brewers aim for high efficiency and too many homebrewers fail to grok that they're HOMEbrewers and not commercial brewers. It's been said thousands of times, but AFAIAC, consistent, repeatable efficiency is much more important than high efficiency.

 

[sambogi76]

You look at efficiency to adjust your recipes so that your OG will compare to the recipe. If the recipe is going off of a 80% and you tend to have 70%, then you need to adjust your grain bill accordingly. This is so your beer is comparable to the recipes. Otherwise your ABV will be different, mouthfeel, and so on...

But you do have to be careful getting too high efficiencies... this may cause astringent flavors.
Cheers.

 

[Bobby_M]

I'm yet to find a new brewer with an "efficiency too high" problem. The only thing you need to worry about is understanding what your typical efficiency is so you can predict the OG of future recipes. If you're able to get 70% consistently, you'll probably be happy with that. 10lbs of 2row in 5 gallons is 1.074 at 100%, 1.060 at 80% and 1.044 at 60%.

If 1.060 is your target, it takes 10lbs of malt at 80% eff while it would take 14lbs at 60%. If you're buying it by the pound from the LHBS for $2/lb, that's an extra 8 bucks.

No, it's not worth obsessing over but you'll want a consistent 70-80% efficiency to keep things predictable and somewhat economical. If you're buying bulk malt and milling yourself, it doesn't really matter at all.

 

[PT Ray]

I feel there is merit in not wanting to leave too much on the table sort of speak. The doesn't mean take it to the extreme.

 

[Bobby_M]

Well it's cool to be casual about efficiency but you wouldn't argue for your boss taking a few percent off the top of your paycheck as long as the amount is consistent right?

 

[scottlindner]

Very good advice already stated. My two bits are this. I think in this modern society, we see a number, and we want to tweak it to improve. If someone came up with a number that represented flavor, you'd see tons of posts about tweaking that number too.

As for me, my efficiency sucks compared to a lot of people. I don't care, I still have beer that I enjoy drinking. The most important part is to know what your typical efficiency is so you can reasonable hit your target, but you can even do that with an awful efficiency, so long as you know what it is.

You're instincts are spot on. Roll with it, and enjoy a homebrew.

Cheers,
Scott

 

[Malticulous]

It is important. If I miss my target I have to make hop adjustments on the fly. If someone is getting low efficiency they should understand why--it doesn't necessarily mean they are making better beer like some seem to think.

 

[Yooper]

To me, the actual number doesn't matter as long as I'm consistent. That said, if I got 60% consistently, I'd probably look into ways to increase that number. Grain is cheap, but some simple remedies like a better grain crush and looking at water chemistry can fix it.

I'm happy with a steady 72%, though, and make my recipes toward that number.

I don't think that anybody would claim that a brewer who gets 85% efficiency makes better beer than somebody with 70% efficiency. The number really doesn't matter all that much, in my opinion.

 

[Malticulous]

I think the work Kia has done on the subject is the best I've read. Breaking it down to conversion and sparge gives a better understanding of the quality of the wort.

High conversion efficiency is good, high lauter efficiency is bad.

 

[ajf]

I don't think that anybody would claim that a brewer who gets 85% efficiency makes better beer than somebody with 70% efficiency. The number really doesn't matter all that much, in my opinion.

I would because I get 85% efficiency!
I must admit though, if I got 70% efficiency, I would think that a brewer who gets 70% efficiency makes better beer than someone with 85% efficiency.
Seriously though, I think that (as many others have said) consistency is the important thing. If you don't have consistency, you will never know what you are brewing.

-a.

 

[scottlindner]

I would because I get 85% efficiency!
I must admit though, if I got 70% efficiency, I would think that a brewer who gets 70% efficiency makes better beer than someone with 85% efficiency.
Seriously though, I think that (as many others have said) consistency is the important thing. If you don't have consistency, you will never know what you are brewing.

-a.

Sometimes a little mystery is good!

The important thing to remember is even if you are WAY off in your estimated efficiency, you'll still have a fine tasty brew. The only real motivation for a really high efficiency is cost savings, and that is minimal for a homebrewer. There is the "How high can I go?" feat. That's cool. I haven't tried that yet. Maybe someday I'll see how I can go just to know.

Scott

 

[OLDBREW]

I'm a noob to all grain and this forum, so please don't take this question as if I mean disrespect toward anyone. But after reading several all grain forums over the past month or so I've noticed that alot of people are very concerned about efficiency. Why is that? I understand if you are a commercial brewer a 10% efficiency difference could mean thousands of dollars, but in the case of a 5 or 10 gallon batch it means a buck or two. Just curious.

Ben

I'm sure someone answered this but, efficiency numbers are only a tool for you to get a consistant batch of beer every time you brew.

If your numbers are all over the place, you can never figure out how to replicate the recipe you are working on. I'll take a consistant 70% efficiency anytime over an efficiency that goes from 70 to 85 to 80 and so forth.

New brewers hear guys boasting I got 92% or 85% on this batch. It's really a joke. What you want is to find out what efficiency your system puts out on a consistant basis so you can formulate, replicate, and tweak your recipe so you get the flavor and complexity you are trying to achive to make great beer.

 

[scottlindner]

OLDBREW, you reminded me of a point I wanted to make but forgot about. We are talking about the difference between quality control, and quality. Maintaining a consistent efficiency will help with quality control, but does nothing to ensure quality. In both cases, high efficiency doesn't matter. All that matters is maintaining the same efficiency in your process. Cost control (and bragging rights) is the only reason for a very high efficiency.

Another comment on efficiency. Some will say no sparge brewing produces the maltiest beer, which tastes better. This is very low efficiency mashing. So the correlation between efficiency and a tasty brew either doesn't matter, or is inversely related.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not against high efficiencies. To each their own. Some day just for kicks I might brew something with the intent to see how high I can go. I'm just reiterating in common industry terms the considerations that go into this.

Scott

 

[Newton]

You look at efficiency to adjust your recipes so that your OG will compare to the recipe. If the recipe is going off of a 80% and you tend to have 70%, then you need to adjust your grain bill accordingly. This is so your beer is comparable to the recipes. Otherwise your ABV will be different, mouthfeel, and so on...

But you do have to be careful getting too high efficiencies... this may cause astringent flavors.
Cheers.

Great points on efficiency.

 

[legaleagle]

Here's my take: when I first got into all grain brewing years ago, I obsessed over every detail and tried to hit numbers and copy recipes as close as possible. After a few years, and finally settling on the brewing setup I currently have, I found it more enjoyable to go to the LHS with only some general ideas about the beer I wanted to brew and then construct the recipe right there based on the ingredients I saw and how I felt they might come together in a beer. When I made that gradual transformation, my brewing became more adventurous and rewarding to (and friends/family who drank my beer). I got to brew beers with no exact commercial equivalent, which I liked doing. I got out the hobby for a few years and recently returned to it. When I did, I checked a few of my earlier recipes to refresh my memory and then went to the local homebrew store and concocted a recipe right there, which has turned out pretty good.

So what exactly am I saying here? It all depends on what you want to achieve in brewing your own beer. If you want to replicate commercial beers or other people's recipes, then you need to understand and be concerned about efficiency (and when I am, I do). But, if you are one of those people (like me) who like monkeying around with ingredients and trying different things to just produce interesting beers (and are not concerned about the cost of an extra pound or two of grain), then you reallly don't need to worry about efficiency. You need to decide what your goal is.