Efficiency 30.87%!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[firefly765]

I brewed this last week & when I put my hydrometer in I was devistated! This is my 1st all grain brew. I'm using a CPVC manifold, my temp held very good through the mash. I did not stir between mashes. Should I have? And I did not have as much evaporation as i thought so i ended up with over 6 gal instead if 5.5 gal. But, 30.87%!@!!! What did i do wrong??




Bee Cave Bavarian Hefeweizen
Brew Type: All Grain Date: 4/22/2010
Style: Weizen/Weissbier Brewer: Aaron
Batch Size: 5.00 gal Assistant Brewer:
Boil Volume: 5.72 gal Boil Time: 60 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 % Equipment: My Equipment
Actual Efficiency: 30.87 %
Taste Rating (50 possible points): 35.0

Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU
0.50 lb Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM) Adjunct 4.76 %
7.00 lb White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 66.67 %
3.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 28.57 %
0.75 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] (60 min) Hops 12.3 IBU
0.25 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] (15 min) Hops 2.0 IBU
5.00 gal Deer Park (R), Bottled Water Water
1 Pkgs Weihenstephan Weizen (Wyeast Labs #3068) Yeast-Wheat

Beer Profile Estimated Original Gravity: 1.058 SG (1.044-1.052 SG) Measured Original Gravity: 1.024 SG
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.014 SG (1.010-1.014 SG) Measured Final Gravity: 1.005 SG
Estimated Color: 4.2 SRM (2.0-8.0 SRM) Color [Color]
Bitterness: 14.3 IBU (8.0-15.0 IBU) Alpha Acid Units: 4.8 AAU
Estimated Alcohol by Volume: 5.78 % (4.30-5.60 %) Actual Alcohol by Volume: 2.47 %
Actual Calories: 102 cal/pint


Mash Profile Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge Mash Tun Weight: 0.00 lb
Mash Grain Weight: 10.50 lb Mash PH: 5.4 PH
Grain Temperature: 72.0 F Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F
Sparge Water: 3.70 gal Adjust Temp for Equipment: FALSE

Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Mash In Add 13.13 qt of water at 165.9 F 154.0 F 90 min


Mash Notes
Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).


Notes
mash for 80 min. temp 156F initial 154F at 80 min mark. 2 sparges w/o stirring. 7 gal in boil pot. 6 + gal left to fermentor. 1.024 SG!!!!!?????

 

[bob1852]

1) what was the temperature of your wort when you took your sample?

2) are you sure your thermometer is accurate?

3) was your grain crushed?

 

[moosetav]

A few things right off the top of my head...are you sure the thermometer and hydro are giving accurate readings? how well did you stir it up? did you have big clumps of dry grain? If I'm doing a 1 hr single infusion mash I check the temp in 20 min increments and stir each time. the extra volume will lower your gravity but shouldn't by that much. perhaps all the little things conspired against you. how are you calculating your sparge volumes?

 

[firefly765]

1) what was the temperature of your wort when you took your sample?

2) are you sure your thermometer is accurate?

3) was your grain crushed?

1. about 75F
2. yes, I used 2
3. came crushed from morebeer, I don't know how fine it was but it looked similiar to what I've seen in the past (from others videos).

 

[Dave258]

Did you measure your water accurately? My first all grain I got 58% but i used too much water, and the crush stunk!
I think I have heard ok things about morebeer's crush. Never used them. That is why I am asking about water volume. If you know you overshot your ending volume, you may have overshot you begining volume, and not boiled off enough.

BTW, that is a great beer, have it on tap now.

Also, I always stir my mash. I have only done 5 AG Brews, but I stir my initial mash every 1/2 hour. Then Stir before vourlaf. Then 2 equal batch sparges like you did I stir when the water is added, let sit 10 min. stir again before vourlaf, then drain.

 

[firefly765]

A few things right off the top of my head...are you sure the thermometer and hydro are giving accurate readings? how well did you stir it up? did you have big clumps of dry grain? If I'm doing a 1 hr single infusion mash I check the temp in 20 min increments and stir each time. the extra volume will lower your gravity but shouldn't by that much. perhaps all the little things conspired against you. how are you calculating your sparge volumes?

I did a very good initial stir then 2 more times i think. Beersmith just kind of told me to sparge with whatever volumes where there. Should i stir & vorlof between sparges? I'm pretty sure my therm & hydro are at least moderately accurate.

 

[firefly765]

Did you measure your water accurately? My first all grain I got 58% but i used too much water, and the crush stunk!
I think I have heard ok things about morebeer's crush. Never used them. That is why I am asking about water volume. If you know you overshot your ending volume, you may have overshot you begining volume, and not boiled off enough.

BTW, that is a great beer, have it on tap now.

I totally overshot my begining volume I guess i should have let it boil longer but I wanted to go by the schedule. I'm hoping it's drinkable. It sure will be a thirstquencher with all that water and 2% alcohol!

 

[GRHunter]

I think it has to be one of the following:

1) A giant dough ball - Stirring would fix this
2) Your grain was not crushed - You said that it was so obviously this isn't the reason
3) Your sparge channeled straight through - I stir after adding my sparge water and then let it sit for 10-15 minutes. Or, you could gently drip\drizzle your sparge water to rinse the grain.
4) Cold spots - Depending on how good your cooler is you may have had some cold spots that did not allow conversion. - Stirring would fix this.

If I had to guess I would say that your problem is a combination of #3 and #4. The bottom line is that I would stir 2-3 times during the mash, and at each of the sparges.

 

[firefly765]

I think it has to be one of the following:

1) A giant dough ball - Stirring would fix this
2) Your grain was not crushed - You said that it was so obviously this isn't the reason
3) Your sparge channeled straight through - I stir after adding my sparge water and then let it sit for 10-15 minutes. Or, you could gently drip\drizzle your sparge water to rinse the grain.
4) Cold spots - Depending on how good your cooler is you may have had some cold spots that did not allow conversion. - Stirring would fix this.

If I had to guess I would say that your problem is a combination of #3 and #4. The bottom line is that I would stir 2-3 times during the mash, and at each of the sparges.

I'm using a 72 qt cooler. But i preheated & i think temp was not a problem. I think lack of stirring may be the culpret.

Any way this is a manifold problem. my grain seemed very "wet" after sparging. would I be better off with the steel braid hose method?

 

[bob1852]

3) Your sparge channeled straight through - I stir after adding my sparge water and then let it sit for 10-15 minutes. Or, you could gently drip\drizzle your sparge water to rinse the grain.

channeling shouldn't be an issue with batch sparging...unless you left a couple gallons of liquid in the cooler.

 

[Dave258]

I did a very good initial stir then 2 more times i think. Beersmith just kind of told me to sparge with whatever volumes where there. Should i stir & vorlof between sparges? I'm pretty sure my therm & hydro are at least moderately accurate.

After my first bad AG, I stopped paying attention to beersmiths sparge volumes. What I do is mash in with what beersmith says, and after I drain my mash tun into my boil kettle, I measure how much wort I collected with my sight glass. I the subtract that from my desired volume. I the divide that into 2 equal batch sparges.

 

[GRHunter]

channeling shouldn't be an issue with batch sparging...unless you left a couple gallons of liquid in the cooler.

My point was that without stirring or fly sparging there would not have been a very efficient rinsing of the grains. That, coupled with what sounds like an excessive volume of water might account for his low efficiency level.

 

[ajf]

My point was that without stirring or fly sparging there would not have been a very efficient rinsing of the grains. That, coupled with what sounds like an excessive volume of water might account for his low efficiency level.

When batch sparging, it is essential to thoroughly stir each batch of sparge water. It is the stirring that dissolves the sugars. If you don't stir, you will get very low efficiency.

-a.

 

[pbarning]

Doesn't the mash temp seem a bit high, too?

 

[firefly765]

Doesn't the mash temp seem a bit high, too?

According to Beersmith, my initial temp was 156F (only 2 degrees over target) and was 154 @ 80 min. Would that affect my efficiency?

That being said, I didn't really know how to use the software for mashing & sparging.

 

[2bluewagons]

According to Beersmith, my initial temp was 156F (only 2 degrees over target) and was 154 @ 80 min. Would that affect my efficiency?

Did you not measure your mash temp? It will take a few brews to dial in what Beersmith is telling you for strike temps and what mash temp that actually will get you. But to answer your question, an initial mash temp being high by 2 degrees will not affect efficiency. As long as your mash was anywhere between 145 and 165 full conversion was possible, especially as you mashed for at least 80 minutes (why so long?).

I use beersmith to get initial strike water volume, but not for sparge volumes. For those, I simply subtract the volume of 1st runnings from my boil volume, and divide by 2 to get the volume of batch sparges.

You say your grain was "wet," does that mean that if you dug low enough there was actually liquid pooling above your manifold? That would not be good, but I'm guessing that since you were able to get enough liquid out of the mash to get 6 gal post-boil that this wasn't too big a problem.

As others have said, stirring is essential to batch sparging but I find it hard to believe that neglecting the stir would put you down in the 30% range.

 

[smizak]

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned, large percentage of wheat malt. If I don't crush the ever living crap out of wheat malt, I'm destined for a drop in efficiency. My LHBS crushes wheat with the same gap as barley and a big portion of the wheat berries come out uncrushed. That's why I bought my own mill.

 

[firefly765]

I use beersmith to get initial strike water volume, but not for sparge volumes. For those, I simply subtract the volume of 1st runnings from my boil volume, and divide by 2 to get the volume of batch sparges.

You say your grain was "wet," does that mean that if you dug low enough there was actually liquid pooling above your manifold? That would not be good, but I'm guessing that since you were able to get enough liquid out of the mash to get 6 gal post-boil that this wasn't too big a problem.

As others have said, stirring is essential to batch sparging but I find it hard to believe that neglecting the stir would put you down in the 30% range.

Actually I didn't really the sparge suggestion from Beersmith. I just poured sparge H2o in until I got what i thought was the right amount in my kettle.

I think I'm going to switch to steel braid as it did seem like my spigot is raised about 1.5" off the bottom of the cooler and it doesn't "suck" the wort below that level. if i go with braid I can tilt!.
I just kegged it 2 hours ago. FG was 1.004. Tastes really weak but good. I wish my efficiency were at least doubled so i could get a good idea of the actual flavor of the recipe.
Oh well, I washed the yeast (another first) and hope to brew it again.

 

[McKBrew]

Part of the issue is your process.

There is a lot of I think I did this, I sort of guessed here, I'm not sure what I did there. It's a really good idea for at least the first few AG brews to follow a step by step checklist.

Certain things like water amounts, temperatures, etc... are important and need to be monitored to some extent.

 

[firefly765]

Part of the issue is your process.

There is a lot of I think I did this, I sort of guessed here, I'm not sure what I did there. It's a really good idea for at least the first few AG brews to follow a step by step checklist.

Certain things like water amounts, temperatures, etc... are important and need to be monitored to some extent.

Well, I did have a checklist which i followed precisely except the sparge water amount. Which i didn't really plan on following anyway because it seemed very wierd to sparge once with .84 gal then 2.86 gal

 

[Ki-ri-n]

Change your manifold. You should be able to start a siphon as long as your liquid level is above the highest point. And then be able to drain below your spigot level. If your manifold isn't glued (or soldered) that may break the siphoning effect.

How are you calculating your eff?

Don't worry about the crappy efficiency-as long as you make educated changes and it goes up. My 1st was almost 50%, now I'm low 80's

That Bavarian Hefe recipe :rockin: Just made it again (with washed yeast) and it's carbing now.

 

[dragonlor20]

I'm using a 72 qt cooler. But i preheated & i think temp was not a problem. I think lack of stirring may be the culpret.

Any way this is a manifold problem. my grain seemed very "wet" after sparging. would I be better off with the steel braid hose method?

I had this problem in the past. Stirring upped my efficiency from the 50s to the high 80s. Stir every 20 minutes (twice during the main mash) and at each sparge (stir, allow 10 minutes, drain, repeat).

 

[ksbrain]

There is no need to stir at all during sparging. I do not stir, and I get roughly 80% efficiency. Stirring only matters when mashing in, so you can make sure all the grain is well mixed with mash water. Just my practical experience talking here. It seems counterintuitive, but it works for me.

I think the problem you had with this batch is definitely the 1.5" of dead space below your manifold. All the most dense wort was stuck down there, and you couldn't get it. Figure out a new design to get all that extra wort draining and you'll be much better.

I just switched from false bottom to SS braid, and the braid rocks. Plus it's so cheap and easy to make!

 

[artyboy]

I'm using a 72 qt cooler. But i preheated & i think temp was not a problem. I think lack of stirring may be the culpret.

Any way this is a manifold problem. my grain seemed very "wet" after sparging. would I be better off with the steel braid hose method?

I use a steel braid hose. It's awesome. I've never had a stuck sparge and I always get good efficiency. I only stir during mash in. I don't even stir when I sparge. I'll probably do it next time, though. I think that if you have a good, solid dough in that stirring during the mash would be counterproductive since you'd just lower the temperature faster.

 

[firefly765]

I think the problem you had with this batch is definitely the 1.5" of dead space below your manifold. All the most dense wort was stuck down there, and you couldn't get it. Figure out a new design to get all that extra wort draining and you'll be much better.

I just switched from false bottom to SS braid, and the braid rocks. Plus it's so cheap and easy to make!

I think that's the problem. I'll switch to the braid & try in a couple weeks. I tried my 30% beer yesterday after 2 days kegged & the flavor is great, but it tasted like I filled a beer glass 1/4 with beer, then topped it off with water!

Should i switch to a smaller cooler (like a 48 qt)?

 

[Bobby_M]

So many issues here.

Even with a manifold, why would you have that much dead space? It should be sitting on the bottom of the cooler with the slits facing down. Your bulkhead/valves should have a length of hose hanging off of it to pull a siphon. Try a no grain test with just water. How much is left when you fully drain now? Did you have a hose on the output or no?

Ignore the anecdotal "no need to stir" talk. If you batch sparge, you stir it in period. If you fly sparge, you don't.

It's pretty easy to calculate your volumes. 1.5 quarts per pound of strike water. Your first runnings should be about 1 quart per pound (that's how much will drain out of the mash if your deadspace isn't really bad). The sparge amount is the difference between your desired preboil volume (about 6.5 gallons) and the volume of first runnings.

Desired Preboil volume
- first runnings volume
= sparge volume.

 

[shanecb]

I just have to chime in, because I had a relatively similar experience last night when I made this recipe (though my efficiency wasn't that low... I hit 58% mash efficiency). I've determined this was because I didn't stir in the batch sparge water or even let it set in, it just ran through. First AG batch... I didn't know otherwise at the time. Also, the crush on the grain was really not that good; our LHBS was having some sort of trouble with their grain mill so they couldn't make it as fine as we were hoping.

 

[trub quaffer]

Keep a couple of pounds of DME on hand. That way, if your efficiency is low, you have a way of getting your gravity back in the ballpark. I won't tell anyone you fell back on extract if you don't.

 

[ksbrain]

Ignore the anecdotal "no need to stir" talk. If you batch sparge, you stir it in period. If you fly sparge, you don't.

So why would you need to stir on batch sparging, but not on fly sparging?

 

[Bobby_M]

Fly sparging maintains a sugar gradient through the entire column of mash, water on top, wort on the bottom. Batch sparging makes the entire wort concentration homogeneous after adding the sparge water by definition of the batch sparge process. The only way to make that happen is to stir, or wait a really long time.