Easy Stove-Top Pasteurizing - With Pics

[BadgerBrigade]

I'm too chicken to try this, I just toss them in the dishwasher on the sanitize setting for 15 minutes. I've only had one explode, no mess to deal with.

There are a lot of entries in this thread that say most dishwashers cannot get the constant temperature up long enough to kill the yeast...
Do you have a thermometer in the dishwasher to check what the temperature is?

 

[xtian116]

There are a lot of entries in this thread that say most dishwashers cannot get the constant temperature up long enough to kill the yeast...
Do you have a thermometer in the dishwasher to check what the temperature is?

I've never measured the temperature, but the specs on my dishwasher say it's "Sani-Rinse" cycle is 155. I checked into it, and the target temperature to kill yeast is 140. I've had good luck, but then again, it's a brand new dishwasher. I don't know if I'd trust an old one.

 

[Keith66]

There's one easy way to know if your dishwasher is hot enough to kill the yeast. Dead yeast = no continued fermentation = no bombs following pasteurization.

 

[Echoloc8]

Is the takeaway I should be getting from this discussion that when back sweetening I should just be prepared for and accept bottle bombs, either in the pot or afterward?

Pappers has only had a bottle or two ever pop their caps, but people like BadgerBrigade blow bottle after bottle after bottle.

Hilarity about safety glasses and splinters of glass sticking in the skin aside, I want my wife to be able to enjoy my homebrew without fear. No other answer is acceptable for me. In over ten years of homebrewing I've never had a primed bottle explode, and having even one do so now would make me hang up bottling for good, and keg forevermore. I know she'd never touch a bottle of mine again, and frankly I wouldn't blame her. No amount of homebrew enjoyment is worth even one glass-related trip to the emergency room.

Is there no way to back sweeten without risk? Commercial vintners, cidermakers and brewers pasteurize all the time; I'm sure that the prospect of making the news with exploding bottles means that they have their process down. What's the difference here?

-Rich

 

[BadgerBrigade]

Is the takeaway I should be getting from this discussion that when back sweetening I should just be prepared for and accept bottle bombs, either in the pot or afterward?

Pappers has only had a bottle or two ever pop their caps, but people like BadgerBrigade blow bottle after bottle after bottle.

Hilarity about safety glasses and splinters of glass sticking in the skin aside, I want my wife to be able to enjoy my homebrew without fear. No other answer is acceptable for me. In over ten years of homebrewing I've never had a primed bottle explode, and having even one do so now would make me hang up bottling for good, and keg forevermore. I know she'd never touch a bottle of mine again, and frankly I wouldn't blame her. No amount of homebrew enjoyment is worth even one glass-related trip to the emergency room.

Is there no way to back sweeten without risk? Commercial vintners, cidermakers and brewers pasteurize all the time; I'm sure that the prospect of making the news with exploding bottles means that they have their process down. What's the difference here?

-Rich

You can back sweeten without risk... You just simply use non-fermentable sugars or Sweeteners.
The reason that I had many bottle bombs was the simple fact that I am wet behind the ears at this and the fault is mine. I was already very carbonated and so I knew that this could possibly result in bottle bombs. I think as long as you do everything nice and safe it should be okay. For starters do not let your bottles get over carbed like I did... Second, I would make absolutely sure that you have a big pot and lid so the bottles fit inside. I did not have a pot large enough so my bottles were sticking out of the top of the water. Also I have realized that to try to do this in the kitchen in case a problem arises is not ideal because I have pets and I don't want them getting any glass in their feet so after I get the pot up to about 180° I will now be taking it outside and doing the pasteurization outside. Some people are lucky enough to have a burner next to their barbecue, that would work great!
Lastly, safety gear: Safety glasses or a paintball mask, an apron and a pot holder on my action hand...lol (Not that kind of action guys)...

I am definitely not the type to let some scientific method get the better of me and I will be repeating this until everything goes smoothly...

I say don't let it scare you and give it a shot buddy

 

[BadgerBrigade]

I've never measured the temperature, but the specs on my dishwasher say it's "Sani-Rinse" cycle is 155. I checked into it, and the target temperature to kill yeast is 140. I've had good luck, but then again, it's a brand new dishwasher. I don't know if I'd trust an old one.

Yes, at 140°F yeast will die... But you need to get the internal temperature of the bottles up to 140°.
Your dishwasher will be spraying 155° water over the bottles, the question is if that is enough to get the bottles internal temperature to 140°.

Look in some of the earlier pages of this thread and a couple guys are discussing this very thing.
From what I have read it seems like most of the other guys are convinced that the internal temperature of the bottles won't get up to 140° for long enough (But they could have archaic dishwashers)

 

[BadgerBrigade]

Here guys! I got this for you to remind you of all the fun we're having!!! Lol

 

[Keith66]

I pasteurized for the first time last night and blew up 2 of 52 bottles. I was kinda ready for it though. I back sweetened with caramel syrup and apple juice concentrate. When I bottled, I filled a plastic soda bottle to estimate pressure, but put too much faith in it. With the plastic bottle slightly firm, I opened a glass bottle on the second day and got a weak "pfft." I didn't open a glass bottle on the third day because the plastic bottle didn't feel any firmer. MISTAKE! On the fourth day, when the plastic bottle finally firmed up, I opened a glass bottle and got a gusher. Then I "rationalized" that warm soda sometimes gushes, so maybe I could "try" pasteurizing. I should now add that there's no reason in the world why I couldn't just cold crash at this point. I don't really have any die-hard reason to pasteurize other than curiosity (which kills cats and rednecks alike). As you might expect, I got domed caps and blew up 2 bottles. Fortunately I had a huge pot with a lid, but one did blow up in my hand, but I was holding the very top with a thick glove and the bottom blew off underwater. The other one blew the neck off with the kettle lid on. And yes, I had safety glasses. I could still have gotten plenty of glass or hot water/cider had things gone differently. NEXT TIME I will open a glass bottle EVERY DAY to check pressure, then pasteurize on the low carb side if anything. If I get a gusher, I'll cold crash, PERIOD. It's all a matter of judgment. As BadgerBrigade was wise to mention, non-fermentable sugars are a safe option; I just wanted "apple" flavor, not sugar flavor. Live and learn (hopefully without shrapnel).

 

[BadgerBrigade]

I pasteurized for the first time last night and blew up 2 of 52 bottles.

2 out of 52 is pretty good dude.... I think you've got it...

 

[Keith66]

Thanks BB, but I'm going for PERFECTION next time! Tonight I'm curious to see how much carb they have after being in the fridge. I'm cautiously hopeful.

 

[BadgerBrigade]

Thanks BB, but I'm going for PERFECTION next time! Tonight I'm curious to see how much carb they have after being in the fridge. I'm cautiously hopeful.

As my Buddhist practitioner girlfriend says there is perfection in imperfection.... Lol

You sound a lot like me however, I don't normally quit until I master something or at least try to do better than my neighbors...

I commend you on your spirit my friend!
But buy a paintball mask anyway hahaha

 

[Pappers_]

Is the takeaway I should be getting from this discussion that when back sweetening I should just be prepared for and accept bottle bombs, either in the pot or afterward?

Pappers has only had a bottle or two ever pop their caps, but people like BadgerBrigade blow bottle after bottle after bottle.

Hilarity about safety glasses and splinters of glass sticking in the skin aside, I want my wife to be able to enjoy my homebrew without fear. No other answer is acceptable for me. In over ten years of homebrewing I've never had a primed bottle explode, and having even one do so now would make me hang up bottling for good, and keg forevermore. I know she'd never touch a bottle of mine again, and frankly I wouldn't blame her. No amount of homebrew enjoyment is worth even one glass-related trip to the emergency room.

Is there no way to back sweeten without risk? Commercial vintners, cidermakers and brewers pasteurize all the time; I'm sure that the prospect of making the news with exploding bottles means that they have their process down. What's the difference here?

-Rich

Rich, check out the method at www.howtomakehardcider.com

 

[Keith66]

Post-pasteurization perfection! Perfect "pfft!" Tiny bubbles! Amazing smell and flavor! Thanks to all who posted, especially Pappers!

 

[dhammers91]

Post-pasteurization perfection! Perfect "pfft!" Tiny bubbles! Amazing smell and flavor! Thanks to all who posted!

Looks DELICIOUS! What I wouldn't give for one of those right now... Can't think of anything better to finish a night of hellish homework!

 

[Echoloc8]

Rich, check out the method at www.howtomakehardcider.com

Do you mean the Xylitol use (hello laxative effect), or the campden/sorbate process? I've read about both, and have no desire to try the former, while the latter recently failed a friend of mine to the tune of wine-bottle bombs going off just 20 feet from his position on the sofa.

i know there's science (Science!) to all this (both stabilization and pasteurization), and in fact the wine and beer industries rely on it every day, but failures of any process are easy to find on this board, and the penalty for failure is extreme (flying glass!).

For example, Pappers, you posted about this method here so that people could have custom-carbed bottled cider without preservatives. Here's a thread that details a sweetened-carbed beer project I'm working on, and every day I reject or re-adopt another method for pulling it off:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/safely-backsweetening-beer-liqueur-400742/

What do you recommend? No one seems to want to comment on the thread itself.

-Rich

 

[Pappers_]

Do you mean the Xylitol use (hello laxative effect), or the campden/sorbate process? I've read about both, and have no desire to try the former, while the latter recently failed a friend of mine to the tune of wine-bottle bombs going off just 20 feet from his position on the sofa.

i know there's science (Science!) to all this (both stabilization and pasteurization), and in fact the wine and beer industries rely on it every day, but failures of any process are easy to find on this board, and the penalty for failure is extreme (flying glass!).

For example, Pappers, you posted about this method here so that people could have custom-carbed bottled cider without preservatives. Here's a thread that details a sweetened-carbed beer project I'm working on, and every day I reject or re-adopt another method for pulling it off:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/safely-backsweetening-beer-liqueur-400742/

What do you recommend? No one seems to want to comment on the thread itself.

-Rich

I would take an entirely different approach. You can make a beer as sweet as you want without using any backsweetening. Mash high, adjust your grain bill, decrease the fermentability of your wort, add dextrose or lactose. Then add the flavoring you want from the liqour you want to add, without worrying about the sugar.

Regarding making cider and the method at http://www.howtomakehardcider.com/, if you follow her directions it will work. If your friend's bottles exploded, its because he didn't follow her directions. Unlike stove-top pasteurizing, where there are many variables and you have to figure out what will work for your cider, process and set up, the method she describes in detail is fool proof and will work for everyone. But, of course, you have to follow her directions exactly.

Good luck!

 

[Echoloc8]

I would take an entirely different approach. You can make a beer as sweet as you want without using any backsweetening. Mash high, adjust your grain bill, decrease the fermentability of your wort, add dextrose or lactose. Then add the flavoring you want from the liqour you want to add, without worrying about the sugar.

Regarding making cider and the method at http://www.howtomakehardcider.com/, if you follow her directions it will work. If your friend's bottles exploded, its because he didn't follow her directions. Unlike stove-top pasteurizing, where there are many variables and you have to figure out what will work for your cider, process and set up, the method she describes in detail is fool proof and will work for everyone. But, of course, you have to follow her directions exactly.

Good luck!

A) I mention in the PS to my post that I don't want to use alternative sweeteners, but to amplify: I'm trying to make a clone of a commercial sweetened beer. To that end I'm trying to stabilize a fermented beverage that will have potentially fermentable sugar in it.

B) I used Google to search howtomakehardcider.com for any mention of sorbate for stabilization, and there is none, just two warnings to not use sorbated juice as an ingredient.

If you try to sweeten you cider with any type of "real" sugar, that sleepy yeast will spring back to life and will start to ferment again. If you keep giving it sugar, you will soon have apple wine--not the goal.

Her site seems to be all about xylitol for back-sweetening, and is not relevant to the stabilization question. Certainly safe, but not relevant if you're trying to avoid laxative qualities in your brew (via http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xylitol):

As with other sugar alcohols, with the exception of erythritol, consumption in excess of one's laxation threshold (the amount of sweetener that can be consumed before abdominal discomfort sets in) can result in temporary gastrointestinal side effects, such as bloating, flatulence, and diarrhea. Adaptation, an increase of the laxation threshold, occurs with regular intake. Xylitol has a lower laxation threshold than some sugar alcohols, but is more easily tolerated than others such as mannitol and sorbitol.

Should I read all this as admission that "you can't always get what you want" and there's little way to be certain of homebrew-scale stabilization?

-Rich

 

[Pappers_]

Rich, I'm confused by your posts a little, so am probably not responding to your questions very helpfully. I would never pasteurize homebrewed beer or 'stabilize' it chemically. Why do you want to backsweeten beer, when you can make it as sweet as you want without doing so? If you want to clone a commercial sweet beer, I would make a sweet beer, not a backsweetened beer.

As for making cider, if you are worried about the safety of stove-top pasteurizing (not an unfounded worry, in my opinion), then the other method will absolutely work with no safety risk. I think your concern about artificial sweeteners is exaggerated, they are so common today, many people consume them without even knowing it. I personally don't know anybody who has gastric problems with drinking diet soda, for example. But, if you do have digestive problems with them and don't want to use artificial non-fermentable sweeteners, then make still cider. I love still cider, it can be very delicious.

 

[Echoloc8]

Rich, I'm confused by your posts a little, so am probably not responding to your questions very helpfully. I would never pasteurize homebrewed beer or 'stabilize' it chemically. Why do you want to backsweeten beer, when you can make it as sweet as you want without doing so? If you want to clone a commercial sweet beer, I would make a sweet beer, not a backsweetened beer.

Sorry, I probably haven't done a good job of explaining myself. The recipe I'm about to talk about is here:

• https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/recipe-critique-new-attempt-kasteel-rouge-clone-395895/

Kasteel Rouge is a beer that has had a cherry liqueur added. My wife and I love this beer, so I'm trying to clone it.

I've chosen to go the route of making the base beer, fermenting it as dry as the Belgian Strong style recommends, and then adding cherry cordial liqueur.

Cherry cordial liqueur (like most liqueurs) is quite sweet, being made from cherries, alcohol like vodka, and fructose and/or sucrose (probably high-fructose corn syrup). This means that adding it to unstabilized, unpasteurized beer bottles will cause them to ferment, acting like priming sugar.

Having had Kasteel Rouge several times, it's very clearly sweetened by the cherry liqueur, so I don't want the liqueur's sweetness consumed by the bottle conditioning process. It's also not an option to simply make the beer sweeter by recipe design.

My wife and I can taste off flavors from Splenda and Nutrasweet, and I know for a fact that Xylitol can have laxative properties when consumed in any quantity. So making my own unfermentable cherry cordial liqueur with one of these sweeteners isn't a way I want to go.

To get around this, I am/was planning to keg the beer & liqueur mixture, chill and carbonate it in the keg, and then bottle from the keg for aging. The issue is: how to prevent the sugar in the liqueur from being consumed, overcarbonating the bottles and possibly creating bottle bombs?

At this point I'm looking at giving up on bottling this beer altogether and aging in/serving from the keg after putting in the cherry cordial liqueur.

Another option someone recommended is sterile filtering the beer before adding the liqueur, knocking the yeast population so low it can't restart fermenting.

-Rich

 

[branman]

First pasteurization session was a success, everyone is safe and accounted for.... sshhoooeee.

 

[BadgerBrigade]

First pasteurization session was a success, everyone is safe and accounted for.... sshhoooeee.

Just in case you have any problems with the next batch I'm going to start selling homebrew pasteurization ballistic shields... Hahaha

 

[Keith66]

 

[branman]

Just in case you have any problems with the next batch I'm going to start selling homebrew pasteurization ballistic shields... Hahaha

Took me a while to get all my riot gear off... lol

 

[Echoloc8]

View attachment 111438

I LOL'd.

-Rich

 

[branman]

Thread question: would it not be possible to paturize the batch of cider by pouring it in a pot bringing it to desired temp., back sweetin and force carbinate (CO2). Then use a counter flow or beer gun to bottle? I am interested to hear your thoughts..

 

[BadgerBrigade]

Thread question: would it not be possible to paturize the batch of cider by pouring it in a pot bringing it to desired temp., back sweetin and force carbinate (CO2). Then use a counter flow or beer gun to bottle? I am interested to hear your thoughts..

Yes....if your force carbing you can bring the cider in a pot to 143F for a few minutes then you can backsweeten, force carb and bottle.

 

[Justdrumin]

Sooooooooooooooo........my dumb a** decided that I remembered the directions instead of following along......so I put my bottles in with the water and turned the stove on high......WRONG!! But this went on as I'm waiting till it hits 175* or so. This is when I decide to double check and this is when I go....O SH**!!! So I immediately take them out and a couple bottles in I have my first bomb : / scared the SH** out of me, the swmbo standing behind me not paying attention who wasn't aware that this may happen...SO they're all outside on a table on the porch. Any suggestions?!?!? My first attempt at cider and bottle pasteurization....not so good. The worst part is my first batch of beer is still conditioning. So there's no RDWHAH goin on either : / Thanks!

Edit: They were at about 175* and I was waiting for them to hit 190*.

 

[Pappers_]

Thread question: would it not be possible to paturize the batch of cider by pouring it in a pot bringing it to desired temp., back sweetin and force carbinate (CO2). Then use a counter flow or beer gun to bottle? I am interested to hear your thoughts..

If you're going to force carbonate (not bottle condition) then there is no need to pasteurize. Ferment out, knock the yeast out with stabilizers, backsweeten and force carb. Also, keeping the yeast cold in a keg will knock them out.

 

[Pappers_]

Also, everyone knows that I have posted lots of warnings, admonitions and am endlessly sending people to the www.howtomakehardcider.com, because we are dealing with heat, pressure and glass. And I don't want to downplay the recent posters who have had trouble. But to be balanced, I have done dozens of batches, I've lost track at this point, and do not remember having a single bottle break either during the pasteurizing because of excessive pressure or afterwards because the pasteurizing failed.

 

[Keith66]

Pappers, your level of success is my goal. I had 2 bombs last Wednesday because I: fermented 1 day too long, didn't open a glass bottle on day 3, and pasteurized despite a gusher on day 4 against much advice to the contrary. I fully expected a bomb, and got one (2 actually, but out of 52 bottles, that's not bad). Now I know that your and others' advice is sound.

Start opening a bottle every two days or so, until you find that carbonation is at the right level. Warning - if the carbonation level is too high, if you have gushing bottles for example, do not pasteurize, the pressure will be too much for your bottles.

Because this cider carbonates so quickly, I will open a glass bottle EVERY DAY starting on day 2, instead of relying on the plastic soda bottle like I did this time. Thanks much for your great post on this very useful process!