Easy Stove-Top Pasteurizing - With Pics

[J Trott]

What you show isn't "instant read".. but it'll work. I use a Thermo Pop pen thermometer from my BBQ for reading rehydration water temps and it works great. Responds in a few seconds.

Thank you. It says instant read on it. I think you may have seen the floating thermometer on the post I replied too. Thanks a ton for the response.

 

[Chalkyt]

About 12 months ago I put forward the idea of keeping some of the secondary ferment in a 100ml test jar in order to monitor the SG without having to sample all the time... it didn't work.

When the test jar showed 1.008 the secondary was already down to 1.000. Don't know why, so I declared the idea a "FAIL". pity!

BTW the idea of using sous vide had occurred to me. It wasn't something that I had heard of before it started appearing on the cooking competition shows that SWMBO watches. It seems like a great idea especially as it would reduce the chance of thermal shock. Might revisit the idea again. Has anyone had more experience with sous vide.

 

[Blacksmith1]

Not I, but somewhere previously in this post, one of the posters said they have done this with one. Since then I have been looking for a second hand one.

 

[JayInAmes]

The Sous Vide quote is here:

FYI:

I've been using a sous vide machine for cooking for years, and I also use it to bottle-pasteurize my mead.

If you don't know what a sous vide machine is, it's a small pump-heater with which you heat and circulate water around food - usually meat - that is sealed in a plastic bag. It allows you to cook meat to precise temperatures all of the way through. I can make a perfect medium-rare steak every time I try.

But, it also makes for a wonderful way to heat my mead bottles in a water bath to exactly 140 all of the way through, and hold it there for the necessary 10-15 minutes to pasteurize them. No need to heat the water to 190 and risk bombs, plus precise control so that flavor isn't affected.

Go to someplace like Amazon and look up "Anova Sous Vide." Costs about $75.00. Great for cooking, better for mead.

I too use sous vide for cooking. I'm curious as to how big of a container is needed for this. I sometimes do batches of 2 cases (5 gallon). Have to figure out how to rig the anova into a big cooler. Leaving it for a couple hours (minimum) would be my suggestion. Could do 140, 150, whatever temp you are comfortable with.

 

[Blacksmith1]

Any large stock pot should work, or a steam table tray maybe?

 

[Richard Swales]

First post here.

I've tried this a few times in 0.5 litre Pilsner Urquell bottles which here in Central Europe are designed to be returned and reused by the brewery over many cycles without killing any customers or workers - none broken so far. Like the OP now does, I ferment to dry before adding sugar.

A few things seem to have been missed so far in the thread:

1) Whether or not you have gushers is partly related to the pressure in the bottle, but only partly. For example champagne is said to usually have 6 volumes of CO2 - equivalent to letting it ferment in bottle from 1.009 down to 1.000 - or adding 24g per litre of priming sugar (about 3 oz per gallon) and the pressure is high enough to need special bottles even at ambient temp, but you don't get half of it flying out the bottle the bottle when it's opened. The rate at which the CO2 dissolved in the drink comes turns to gas when the pressure is released is partly the partial pressure difference, but also the number of "nucleation sites" i.e. places for bubbles to form. If you have gushers it's mostly because of sediment particularly loose sediment. Try refrigerating (this also reduces pressure as gases can fit better into cold water) with the bottle standing upright for 24 hours (so the sediment drops and forms a more compact layer on the bottom) before you try to pour into a glass (above the sink). Drink or rebottle.

2 short version) The average temperature in the system once things equalize is going to be pretty close (but under) the average temperature you start with.

2 long version) Ok so last time I had three 0.5 litre bottles at 35 degrees C (95 F), and put them into a pan with 3 litres of 80 degree (176 F) water.

(3L x 80C) + (1.5L x 35C) = 240LC + 52.5LC = 292.5 LC of heat energy - now to get the average we divide by the 4.5L - 292.5LC/4.5L = 65 C. So the average temp of the system at the start is 65 degrees (149 F). (You can do the same calculation with fahrenheit and fluid ounces or whatever, just as long as you are consistent)

When I ran the above, the temps seemed to equalize at about 62-63 degrees (when it was around 70 it was dropping at 1 degree per 30 seconds, but after 5.5 mins when we had 63.5 it was dropping 1 degree per 2 minutes) - so I know next time to aim a couple of degrees C over my target of 65 (maybe aim 5 F over) . The discrepancy will be partly due to cooling in the first 5 minutes (for example between minutes 15 and 20 we also lost 2 degrees which can only be down to general cooling). The specific heat capacity of glass is much lower than that of water (and the metal pan also holds heat) so I don't think that's a big factor.

Here is the time series of temp readings (minutes after I started measuring, which was a couple of minutes after I put them in and temp in C)
0 71, 0.5 70, 1 69, 1.5 68, 2 67, 2.5 66.25, 3 65.5,
3.5 65, 4 64.5, 4.5 64.25, 5 64, 5.5 63.5, 6 63.25
6.5 63, 7 62.75, 7.5 62.5, 8 62.25, 8.5 62, 9 61.75, 9.5 61.5,
10 61.5,
15 59.75
20 58

So i didn't measure inside a bottle, but I think from the above it's pretty clear the internal temps did get above 60 as the clearly stopped "pulling" the water temp down somewhere in the low 60s.

3) People who get explosions etc. when heating with the bottles in. Rather than approaching this to turn it off, you could consider throwing the master electricity or gas shutoff for the property you are in and shutting off the heat that way. (Though the way I do it the heat is already off when you put the bottles in).

 

[teddyearp]

I'm just curious, has anyone had a bottle bomb before putting it into the water? i.e. over carb before trying to pasteurize?

 

[JordanfromOK]

Using a Sharper Image dual probe grill thermometer to test the temps on my dishwasher now.

 

[JordanfromOK]

Well, I'll try to make my 2nd post only once. Haha

So, not very promising results from the first test. I used the "Pots & Pans", "Hi Temp Wash", & the "Heated Dry" settings on our basic Hotpoint dishwasher. Both probes were just placed inside. One on the top rack and one below. The top rack probe recorded a max temp of 135°F for only 2 min. All together, the top (which reached hotter temps than below) stayed at 130°F for a solid 20 min.
Will try and get a probe through a corked bottle and get an actual internal temp of the bottled water later.

(Edited: Still had 1 typo. Grammar Nazi on myself. Mods, please feel free to delete my 1st post. 2 posts ☝. Thanks everyone.)

 

[MarkKF]

I want a still cider. Do you think it can be pasteurized by slowly heating it to 165 deg. F. in a jug with a screw cap or wine bottles with corks or will the pressure be too much?

 

[Maylar]

Caps would be OK, corks probably not. But if bottles are vertical popped corks would be no big deal.

 

[MarkKF]

Caps would be OK, corks probably not. But if bottles are vertical popped corks would be no big deal.

Do you think the corks would just move a little or pop?

 

[Maylar]

Do you think the corks would just move a little or pop?

Dunno how much expansion there would be. Try a bottle and see...

 

[MarkKF]

Dunno how much expansion there would be. Try a bottle and see...

I will! Also gonna try different methods. Like 145 deg. for 30 min. Or 160 deg. for 5 min.

 

[homebrew93]

Thanks for this thread. I read the original instructions but not all 35 pages in between there and here. I don't understand why the cider needs to be in the bottles at all to pasteurize? I heated my cider up to about 160 degrees and then removed it from the fire let it cool and put it in bottles to sit and settle out.

After that I may add sugar and bottle to make a still sweet. Or for sparkling I will force carbonate after I let it cool, and either add sugar if I want a sparkiling sweet, or leave it to make it a sparkling dry cider.

Is there something wrong with what I am doing?

 

[markcurry]

Is there something wrong with what I am doing?

"Sparking Sweet" means sugar inside (sealed) bottles with live yeast. Live Yeast + Sugar = CO2. The yeast won't really stop consuming any, and all available sugar within said bottle. You want them to stop at some threshold - because it has enough CO2 bubbles, and you want some sugar for yourself. One way to do this is to pasteurize within (the already sealed) bottles to kill the yeast.

"Still Sweet", or "Sparking Dry" are easier to do. Kegging easier too - you can pre-pasteurize and force carb. There's more than one way to skin this cat - which points to why there's 35 pages in this thread!

Cheers!
Mark

 

[Blue-Frog]

... I don't understand why the cider needs to be in the bottles at all to pasteurize? I heated my cider up to about 160 degrees and then removed it from the fire let it cool and put it in bottles to sit and settle out.
After that I may add sugar and bottle to make a still sweet. Or for sparkling I will force carbonate....
... Is there something wrong with what I am doing?

If I am paying attention, no.
People doing it in closed bottles... are not force carbonating.
I think force carbonating is safer...

Hummm,
How do you force carbonate glassbotles?
I know they have screw cap things for plastic bottles-
but are there similar devices for crown cap and flip-top bottles?

 

[Blacksmith1]

Most people force carb in a keg, then if they want to, they bottle. Some leave it in the keg.

 

[wadepelly]

As I am having issues with a few bombs....

Does anyone know if PET bottles can be pasteurized? Will they stand up to the heat?

Cheers

 

[Maylar]

As I am having issues with a few bombs....

Does anyone know if PET bottles can be pasteurized? Will they stand up to the heat?

Cheers

Heat yes.. but they blow the bottom out under pressure.

 

[criggs85]

I have two questions for everyone. I'm sorry if this was mentioned on other comments already on here but dang this is a long (but very interesting) thread. The questions are:

• Since I am heat pasteurizing the bottles are the end do I still need to use sodium metabisulfite before fermenting? I assume yes so that any wild yeast doesn't take over.
• Can I use some non-pasteurized apple juice to back sweeten before I heat pasteurize the bottles?

Thanks!

 

[JordanfromOK]

I have two questions for everyone. I'm sorry if this was mentioned on other comments already on here but dang this is a long (but very interesting) thread. The questions are:

• Since I am heat pasteurizing the bottles are the end do I still need to use sodium metabisulfite before fermenting? I assume yes so that any wild yeast doesn't take over.
• Can I use some non-pasteurized apple juice to back sweeten before I heat pasteurize the bottles?

Thanks!

More experienced brewers are more than welcome to correct me, as I'm still new.

1st Question:
Yes. You can still. From my 1 year of light brewing I've done, I haven't used any meta on a brew (just cause I'm a cheap @$$) and have had no ill effects...yet. You're assessment is correct though. It's to kill off any wild yeasts 24hrs before pitching your Pedigree yeast strain.

2nd Question:
Ya. If you're a few days from pasteurizing, a lil fresh cider ain't gonna hurt anything.

 

[stegtheoriginal]

Part II

If you have 48 bottles, pasteurizing them 6 or 7 at a time, for ten minutes each batch, you can see that this will take you a little time. I usually allot 1.5 hours for the whole process. The balance you are making here is a little bit of time for absolute, stunning simplicity and no chemical additions. During the downtime, I do other chores, like wash the dishes.

After a ten minute soak in the hot water bath, remove the bottles. I use kitchen tongs to pick up the bottle and then transfer to my other hand with a kitchen mitt.

Put them on the kitchen counter to cool. I usually leave them out while I do the next batch, then return them to the case box. You can see in this picture, that I've got the next batch lined ready to go on the other end of the counter. Its just a simple little assembly line.

Turn the heat back on and raise the temp back up to 190. Repeat until all the bottles are done. Let them cool completely to room temperature before putting them in the fridge. Chill and enjoy!

For what its worth, I ask friends at a local pub in Chicago to collect bottles for me, so end up with an eclectic collection.

I've not had a bottle break or crack, although I did have a cap come off in the hot water bath (with the lid of the pot on) once. Obviously, with carbonation pressure and hot temps, you want to be careful. Don't bang the bottles. Don't have heat applying to the pot while the bottles are in it. But, using common sense, this method is really very simple and uses no additives or chemicals.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.




Added October 26, 2010: Through pm's and other threads, I have been chatting with people who have been trying to pasteurize bottles that are over-carbonated - in other words, they waited too long to pasteurize. Please do not do this, it is extraordinarily dangerous. Head injuries, eye injuries, flying glass shards and burns from hot liquid are all possible outcomes. Use common sense: 1) do not pasteurize a batch if you haven't opened a bottle and seen that the carbonation level is right and 2) if the bottle is over-carbonated (gushing, foam everywhere) do not do pasteurize. Rather, open the bottles and release some of the pressure before your bottles explode.

If you are doing this for the first time, if you are learning how your yeast, your juice, your processes work, test your bottles early and often, to avoid over-carbonation.

Added July 2014: FYI, I've never had bottle break during pastuerizing at 190, but some have, and I've found through experience that using 180F works fine. Also, these days I generally let the cider ferment all the way to dry, then backsweeten and bottle, pastuerizing after a couple of days. I tend to ferment 3 gallons of juice and backsweeten with 1 gallon.

thanks for this i'll be trying it with my next fruity batch!

 

[MtnGoatJoe]

I don't understand why the cider needs to be in the bottles at all to pasteurize? I heated my cider up to about 160 degrees and then removed it from the fire let it cool and put it in bottles to sit and settle out.

After that I may add sugar and bottle to make a still sweet. Or for sparkling I will force carbonate after I let it cool, and either add sugar if I want a sparkiling sweet, or leave it to make it a sparkling dry cider.

Is there something wrong with what I am doing?

I believe the issue is sanitization. It's VERY hard to make sure everything is perfectly sanitized if you're dealing with open containers. People pasteurize in bottles because 1) they want some level of carbonation to build up, and 2) there's very little chance of a closed bottle becoming infected after pasteurization. What you're doing isn't wrong, just be aware that it isn't always a 100% solution.

 

[JohnSand]

Rise up, Old Thread!
After I pasteurize the cider, will it continue to mature?
Thanks!

 

[murlocking]

Rise up, Old Thread!
After I pasteurize the cider, will it continue to mature?
Thanks!

Yes, it will continue to mature.
Unless you added brett to the bottles, in that case the brett will be killed.

 

[doublejef]

Question I was asking to myself.
As we don't really want to pasteurise but only to stop yeast of eating sugar.
Just reaching the temparature that kills the yeast wouldn't be enough? Maybe it fit the hypothesis that 1PU is enough for cider.
I will give it a try and warm some bottle of cider (with added sugar) to 55C° max before take it out. It should give 1PU. For security, I will probably aim 56-57°C but no more.

Edit : I see that saccharo are dying at 60°C so I will raise the temp until 60° instaed of stop at 57°C. It will give at least 5PU, probably more (depend of the time the temparature takes to rise and fall).

 

[Maylar]

Question I was asking to myself.
As we don't really want to pasteurise but only to stop yeast of eating sugar.
Just reaching the temparature that kills the yeast wouldn't be enough? Maybe it fit the hypothesis that 1PU is enough for cider.
I will give it a try and warm some bottle of cider (with added sugar) to 55C° max before take it out. It should give 1PU. For security, I will probably aim 56-57°C but no more.

Edit : I see that saccharo are dying at 60°C so I will raise the temp until 60° instaed of stop at 57°C. It will give at least 5PU, probably more (depend of the time the temparature takes to rise and fall).

See this thread:
Heat Pasteurizing and Carbonation... more stuff!

@Chalkyt

 

[RileyOG]

Part II

If you have 48 bottles, pasteurizing them 6 or 7 at a time, for ten minutes each batch, you can see that this will take you a little time. I usually allot 1.5 hours for the whole process. The balance you are making here is a little bit of time for absolute, stunning simplicity and no chemical additions. During the downtime, I do other chores, like wash the dishes.

After a ten minute soak in the hot water bath, remove the bottles. I use kitchen tongs to pick up the bottle and then transfer to my other hand with a kitchen mitt.

Put them on the kitchen counter to cool. I usually leave them out while I do the next batch, then return them to the case box. You can see in this picture, that I've got the next batch lined ready to go on the other end of the counter. Its just a simple little assembly line.

Turn the heat back on and raise the temp back up to 190. Repeat until all the bottles are done. Let them cool completely to room temperature before putting them in the fridge. Chill and enjoy!

For what its worth, I ask friends at a local pub in Chicago to collect bottles for me, so end up with an eclectic collection.

I've not had a bottle break or crack, although I did have a cap come off in the hot water bath (with the lid of the pot on) once. Obviously, with carbonation pressure and hot temps, you want to be careful. Don't bang the bottles. Don't have heat applying to the pot while the bottles are in it. But, using common sense, this method is really very simple and uses no additives or chemicals.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.




Added October 26, 2010: Through pm's and other threads, I have been chatting with people who have been trying to pasteurize bottles that are over-carbonated - in other words, they waited too long to pasteurize. Please do not do this, it is extraordinarily dangerous. Head injuries, eye injuries, flying glass shards and burns from hot liquid are all possible outcomes. Use common sense: 1) do not pasteurize a batch if you haven't opened a bottle and seen that the carbonation level is right and 2) if the bottle is over-carbonated (gushing, foam everywhere) do not do pasteurize. Rather, open the bottles and release some of the pressure before your bottles explode.

If you are doing this for the first time, if you are learning how your yeast, your juice, your processes work, test your bottles early and often, to avoid over-carbonation.

Added July 2014: FYI, I've never had bottle break during pastuerizing at 190, but some have, and I've found through experience that using 180F works fine. Also, these days I generally let the cider ferment all the way to dry, then backsweeten and bottle, pastuerizing after a couple of days. I tend to ferment 3 gallons of juice and backsweeten with 1 gallon.

Re: "I generally let the cider ferment all the way to dry"

Suppose you get your cider all the way down to SG 0.988. In the past, I've added 1/2 teaspoon of sugar to each 22 oz bottle, and the carbonation was good after 7-10 days. Two questions..

Will C02 continue to build up if there is no sugar left to ferment? In other words, is it necessary to pasteurize if you have reached ultimate dryness?

In a 3 gallon carboy batch, if you get down to 0.988 and the batch sits for another month or so, will there be any yeast left to carbonate the added sugar to the bottle?

 

[Raptor99]

@RileyOG The post to which you refer is more than 10 years old, and the author hasn't been seen on HBT since August 2021. In answer to your questions:

Suppose you get your cider all the way down to SG 0.988. In the past, I've added 1/2 teaspoon of sugar to each 22 oz bottle, and the carbonation was good after 7-10 days. Two questions..

Will C02 continue to build up if there is no sugar left to ferment? In other words, is it necessary to pasteurize if you have reached ultimate dryness?

No. Once the sugar is gone, the yeast won't produce any more CO2.

In a 3 gallon carboy batch, if you get down to 0.988 and the batch sits for another month or so, will there be any yeast left to carbonate the added sugar to the bottle?

Yes. I have added priming sugar to cider that has bulk aged for 6 months, and it has still carbonated in the bottles. If you have aged beyond 6 months, it might be a good idea to add a little new yeast.