Easy Stove-Top Pasteurizing - With Pics

[Pappers_]

I don't know what the carbonation volume is, sorry. For the simple, draft-style cider I make when using the stove-top pasteurizing technique, aging isn't required and I don't notice any difference in the month or two it takes us to drink a batch.

 

[sashurlow]

Hey Papers,
I have some bottles pasteurized and waiting to clear. Three months later, its barely clearing. Any tips to speed up the process. When the outside temps get cold, would letting the bottles sit outside help, like cold crashing them?
Fortunately I have plenty of cider from other batches, so I'm not in a hurry.
thanks,
Scott

 

[Pappers_]

Hi Sashurlow. After bottling, the only thing I would do is cold crashing/chilling the cider, as you suggested. I'd put it in the fridge and let it sit for two weeks and see whether that helps. Or outside, as long as they don't freeze.

For what its worth, I don't usually have this problem, because the sparkling cider that I pasteurize uses store-bought juice and is clear very quickly. But I know, from the still ciders I make with fresh cider that clearing can take a while.

 

[sgoehner]

This won't work with EC-1118 or Red Star P Cuvee. I've done this process, with cider, actually left it longer than that, and still ended up with foam fountains when I opened the bottles for consumption, weeks later. I suggest a person do a test bottle filled with water, uncapped, with a thermometer inside the bottle, and in the pot of hot water, and see how long it takes to get to 140 inside the bottle. If it takes 20 minutes, then go for 30 when you are doing the real thing.

Why would this not work with EC-1118? I know that strain is pretty fierce, but they yeast has to die at some point. Would cold crashing in the fridge, racking to a secondary and then priming and bottling before pasteurizing work??

 

[Pappers_]

Why would this not work with EC-1118? I know that strain is pretty fierce, but they yeast has to die at some point. Would cold crashing in the fridge, racking to a secondary and then priming and bottling before pasteurizing work??

I don't have any experience with EC-1118, but the yeast will die if it is heated high enough.

Cold crashing and using a secondary is fine, if you are making a cider that will benefit from that, or that needs help clearing.

 

[dayflyer55]

This really is great stuff. I not only have used this for cider, but also plan on using this technique for my sparkling sweet meads and my hard lemonades too! Brilliant and simple!

 

[Genacide]

Why would this not work with EC-1118? I know that strain is pretty fierce, but they yeast has to die at some point. Would cold crashing in the fridge, racking to a secondary and then priming and bottling before pasteurizing work??

I used the method descibed with some cider using EC-1118 and had no issues.

 

[sgoehner]

I used the method descibed with some cider using EC-1118 and had no issues.

Thanks Genacide. I put everything together Saturday morning and the OG was 1.061, I checked it in Monday and it was already down to 1.041. Planning on checking it tomorrow as it will likely be close to where the Mrs. will want it.

 

[MeadHorn]

So I read/skimmed through all the pages thus far on this thread. Now that I'm sleepy enouph to finally go to sleep (2am local time atm), I thought why not chime in about a couple things!

1) While I've been collecting enough glass bottles to use for my brewing adventures, I've been reusing PET soda bottles. Once I got the cider to my liking, I'd bottle in the plastic, and once the CO2 put enough pressure on the bottle so that the plastic would hardly budge, that seemed to create enough carbonation to my liking (then into the fridge they go). Once I start using glass, could I use a PET bottle to "squeeze test" the carbonation level (granted, the glass and PET bottles are the same size)?

2) I have this enamel pot that has another pot you can set into it with holes (think of those pots used for cooking pasta, where you pull that insert out and it strains the water). Suppose I put by bottles into a pot like this and I keep the pot on the flame, slowly bring the temp up to 145F, and adjust the heat to hold it at that temperature for 10 minutes. Could this work? From my cooking experience, the insert acts kind of like a double boiler, so that the bottom of the insert isn't touching the heating element directly, but rather being heated by the water. Also, if you stick the bottles in when the tempature of the water is 145F, and let's say after a minute the water drops to 125F, by the time the water gets back up to 145F, the liquid inside the bottle would be the same, correct?

Any thoughts on these issues would be greatly appreciated!

 

[dinnerstick]

1. i do this when i pasteurize, and it works great, and i agree that the carb level is perfect when there is just a bit of give left in the bottles. but if i open a glass one at that point it often gushes unless i first give it a day or two in the fridge.
2. the pot sounds ideal to me, as long as you can cover it just in case one pops, the odd bottle could have a flaw in the glass and go off without warning. i cover with a towel and then the lid, and have had a bottle explode without any serious problem. for the temps, i just determined it somewhat empirically with an open bottle of water and meat thermometer. maybe that's not perfect but it provided a good estimate of internal temp. 145 apparently is 63 degrees C (for Common to the rest of the world) which will kill yeast given enough time but i'm not sure if 10 minutes would do it, i would think go higher...?

 

[MeadHorn]

dinnerstick:

It's good to hear that the plastic bottle tester works for someone else, I will definitely go that route. So if I read your response correctly, if you let a PET bottle get to what you like, it will be overcarbed for a glass bottle?

As far as the pot/heating is concerned, it does have a lid, but adding a towel sounds smart to me. I read earlier in this thread that 60C @ 10 minutes would be sufficient in killing the yeast, so I thought (since I'm an American and metric scares me ) holding it at 145F for 10 minutes would be a little added insurance.

I will most definitely test this out once my next cider is ready and report back with my findings. While using Papper's method does work, I just wanted to see if this way could work as well.

 

[dinnerstick]

no- i meant that for me it is perfect carbonation when the pet is almost completely hard, then the ones in glass are good also, but that they need a day in the fridge still to... acclimate? for the CO2 to get into solution? to chill and that's it? i don't know why exactly but they are less explosive and better carbonated after a good couple days in the fridge. so if you waited until the pet was hard and then opened a bottle then and there you might think they were a bit overcarbed

 

[MeadHorn]

Ok, that makes total sense to me now, thanks! So when you chill your bottles for a day or so before you pasteurize, I'm guessing you let the bottles come back up to room temperature before you proceed with heating them?

 

[dinnerstick]

i don't chill them first, i just know that if i do open one straight away i might get a slightly wrong impression of the final carb level. sorry to labor the point a bit... not that important. whatever happens when you chill them, if it's more gas going into solution in the colder temp or whatever, that will happen just fine after pasteurizing and is not necessary before
i also just need to say... I PRESSED MY FIRST APPLES OF THE 2011 CIDER SEASON LAST NIGHT! Game On! starting a little batch from a workmate's weird back yard tree.

 

[MeadHorn]

No, don't apologize! It was my fault for kind of being daft, thank you for being patient and clarifying.

And definitely keep us posted about your fresh-pressed cider endevours!

 

[complexgeek]

I'm new to cider brewing (and homebrewing in general), but decided to give your technique for a sweet, carbonated cider a try.

Being somewhat scared of exploding bottles (and wanting to save the initial expense of a capper) I decided to use PET bottles. In the first batch I pasteurized all the seals failed and the carbonation was lost. In the second batch I tried heating the caps before tightening them. This time all but one failed. The one that didn't is in the attached picture...

I think for this technique to be successful I'll need to switch to glass bottles.

 

[BelMamba]

Hey everyone,

I just did my first batch of cider from unpasteurized fresh cider (1.045) and need some opinions/help. I initially wanted to ferment it through and back-sweeten but I tried it at 1.009 and it was so good that I wanted to stop the still very active fermentation. So I bottled it with one bottle being a PET. About 6 hours later, the PET bottle was rather hard and I opened and tried it and it was very low carbonation - but I liked the level (and being a newbie did not want to risk over-carbonation) and went to pasteurize following the recipe at the beginning of the thread.

Among the 48 bottles, 5 just violently blew off the crown cap during the "cooking" and at least 50% of the bottles started blowing air bubbles at the rim of the crown.

My question is now:

- did I do something wrong in the process? Should I have cold crashed or something?
- is my capping ok? Is it normal that the caps leak or blow when pressure gets high? Or is that as sign of the red plastic capper that came with my kit is bad?

I am just trying to get your "gut feel" reaction on the scenario since you have done much more cider ....

Thx

 

[Pappers_]

When you say that the cider was still in a very active fermentation, that is a difference from the the method that I use and described. I use Nottingham yeast and when I bottle, the fermentation is still going, but has definitely slowed down. When I bottle, it takes days, not hours, for the bottles to carbonate.

 

[Rooster286]

Just a word of warning...when stove top pasteurizing don't do the idiotic thing I did and miraculously avoided blinding myself doing...

I was placing the pasteurized bottles on a towel due to having a granite counter top. Bomber (22oz) went on to a towel that had seen 12 bottles already and was wet. Temp differential was way too big due to the cooled water on the towel. Whole bottom of the bomber separated and the rest went up like a rocket, hit my cabinet and exploded. Somehow it COMPLETELY missed me yet sent glass 20 ft across my kitchen. Another thing to watch out for. Yikes.

Bread is there because i used it to pick up the razor thin shards all over the place

 

[BelMamba]

When you say that the cider was still in a very active fermentation, that is a difference from the the method that I use and described. I use Nottingham yeast and when I bottle, the fermentation is still going, but has definitely slowed down. When I bottle, it takes days, not hours, for the bottles to carbonate.

Hmm, I am still wondering whether blowing air at the rim / popping the crown is a standard mode of failure or an indication of bad capping (bottles or capper - I used old Corona bottles and a cheap red capper). The carbonation was extremely low so if the pressure is to high even for that low carbonation, I don't know how to get carbonation into bottles ...

 

[Pappers_]

Hmm, I am still wondering whether blowing air at the rim / popping the crown is a standard mode of failure or an indication of bad capping (bottles or capper - I used old Corona bottles and a cheap red capper). The carbonation was extremely low so if the pressure is to high even for that low carbonation, I don't know how to get carbonation into bottles ...

If Corona bottles are screwtop, that might be your problem - they don't seal as well as standard bottles.

Regarding the pressure in the bottle, if there was 'very active fermentation' going on and your bottles were carbed in a few hours, as you said in your earlier post, that doesn't sound right to me. When I make cider, I let the fermentation slow down and the bottle carbonation takes a few days.

I suspect your fermentation is pumping out a lot of CO2 while you are bottling and pastuerizing. Having your caps blow may be a good thing - its better than having your bottle blow.

 

[BelMamba]

If Corona bottles are screwtop, that might be your problem - they don't seal as well as standard bottles.

Regarding the pressure in the bottle, if there was 'very active fermentation' going on and your bottles were carbed in a few hours, as you said in your earlier post, that doesn't sound right to me. When I make cider, I let the fermentation slow down and the bottle carbonation takes a few days.

I suspect your fermentation is pumping out a lot of CO2 while you are bottling and pastuerizing. Having your caps blow may be a good thing - its better than having your bottle blow.

Thanks again for your input, I did find one thing out:

Even though the Corona bottles have no screw-top, people have problems with some of them (esp. the C. Light ones) when using a wing capper since the second bulge at the bottle top (which the wing capper uses as leverage) is much closer to the first bulge (which holds the crown) and thus you can't pull the bell deep enough over the crown - not a problem with a bench capper.

I know you find it strange that I speak of carbonation after just 6 hours or so (especially since I did use S4 ale yeast not a very agressive one), but what I mean is that the cider was just slightly tickling on the tongue (just "moussez") and not fully carbonated. So even with active fermentation, the CO2 pressure was not where it is in your cider that clearly forms a foam layer ... btw, the picture of your crystal clear cider with the foam on top and the nice label is still my "one day I'll be there" goal

I know this is a nice and gentle failure mode compared to the exploding bottle - but if it does not allow me to build any decent pressure at all ...

I'll try it with different bottles next, the next batch is already fermenting. And from a taste perspective I love the outcome so much, I will put a lot of tries into stopping fermentation and using the natural fruit sweetness instead of back-sweetening .. I am to much of a French Cidre guy

Thx

PS: I tried to carbonize the flat stuff with a Sodamaker from Soda-Stream and it works great if the pressure release after carbonation (the tilting of the bottle) is done very slowly in multiple steps ... works best in an oversized bottle

 

[pianobrew]

I don't know if this has been talked about before on this thread but I was wondering if you could let the cider ferment out completely then add fresh cider to half prime and half sweeten to your desired gravity. Then monitor and pasteurize when carbonated. Theoretically this can do a few things:

1. Add a nice fresh apple flavor (especially if your cider is good!)
2. Add more alcohol and volume to the finished product
3. Give you a bit more control of the sweetness (because you could miss the gravity that you are shooting for when fermenting)
4. The bottles should carbonate a bit slower because the yeast at time of bottling have been sleeping a bit. This should then be a safer situation to work with.

Is my theory false in someway? I have never tried this before. I was just wanting some input.

The one downside of this could be the exact amount of fresh cider to add, but with trial and error it would be easy to duplicate.

 

[dinnerstick]

your theory is bang on, many people do just that. you could find info if you scoured this thread and other threads on priming with juice, but there's not that much more you need to know. the only thing i disagree with is point 2, you are going to dilute the alcohol slightly, but not much and who cares. if you have the inclination you could freeze-concentrate the juice first, and thus get more sugar and flavor for the increase in volume.
you can calculate how much juice to add for proper priming by measuring the gravity of the juice, converting into brix which is % sugar, and comparing to the amount of regular sugar you would use to prime, but if you are going to backsweeten it also then you should forget the math and just go by taste, remembering that a tiny bit of that sweetness will be consumed in the carbonation process. and i think it's always wise to bottle one in a small soda bottle to serve as a guide for when pressure is building.

 

[pianobrew]

One other thing.

Could you just put the fresh carbonated bottle in the fridge and let the yeast settle to the bottom then pasteurize by only heating up the bottom inch of the bottle as opposed to almost the whole thing? This should save energy and time as long as it works. Did anybody ever try this?

 

[Rooster286]

That's a recipe for disaster...the temperature differential would almost certainly make the bottles explode, and if you warm things back up to room temp it'll be almost impossible to move the bottles without getting some yeast back into suspension, and that's assuming that everything drops out in the first place (fairly unlikely).

Assuming you can get those two things to work out, I'd bet you'd push some yeast back into suspension just from the thermal changes when you heat the bottle up. Please don't do this!

 

[pianobrew]

Gotcha

 

[BeastofWotan]

I have a slightly different issue that I wonder if this could fix it.

I put together my first cider/apfelwein yesterday using two gallons of fresh unpasteurized cider from a local farmer's market, pitched S-04 into it. It wasn't until earlier today, after fermentation had already started, that it occurred to me that using unpasteurized orchard cider without treating it with campden could be a little risky. As its already fermenting, it's probably too late for that.

My question is, would this pasteurizing method insure the cider safe to drink? Is there too much of a risk, should I dump the batch (not a big financial loss since its only two gallons)?

 

[Cazamodo]

I have a slightly different issue that I wonder if this could fix it.

I put together my first cider/apfelwein yesterday using two gallons of fresh unpasteurized cider from a local farmer's market, pitched S-04 into it. It wasn't until earlier today, after fermentation had already started, that it occurred to me that using unpasteurized orchard cider without treating it with campden could be a little risky. As its already fermenting, it's probably too late for that.

My question is, would this pasteurizing method insure the cider safe to drink? Is there too much of a risk, should I dump the batch (not a big financial loss since its only two gallons)?

I wouldn't worry. Not sure what you mean by un pasturised cider from a farmers market? If it was pasturized I thought you then wouldn't be able to ferment it?
I press my own apples, and all I do is add campden tablets a day before adding my own yeast, to kill any wild yeasts, but that's just a precaution. I think your cider will be fine. Don't chuck it, no point throwing it out, its only two gallons. See how it turns out.

Also, the pasturizing in this topic. Isn't as such to make the cider safe to drink, its to stop the yeast continuing to produce co2 in the bottles so they don't explode. An answer to having a sweeter, carb ed cider, by bottle conditioning.

 

[mrtree]

I bottled a batch of this yesterday, 5 gallons of cider and s-04. I bottled at 1.012.

Do you do your sampling at room temperature or do you put the bottle in the fridge the day before? I pulled a bottle tonight and it automatically flowed from the bottle once opened. The bottle sampled was at room temperature. Not sure if I should start the pasteurization process right now or if I can wait the recommended 4-5 days.

Thanks for any help on this. I am new to the cider area.