Easy Stove-Top Pasteurizing - With Pics

[Pappers_]

Just a heads-up that I will be away from hbt.com for a while. There are plenty of folks here who can answer questions or offer advice on this thread. If you need to reach me, send a pm, and I'll get notified of it via email on my cell phone, and I can try to get back to you when possible.

 

[natewv]

wow so long story short, pasteurizing this way allows what's left of the sugars to carb until you like where it is then you kill the yeast so you don't need to add sweetener at all, huh? or am i missing something? My recipe I was thinking of doing in the next day or two included 4 cans of concentrate...so is that not necessary in this situation or do I still need that to get the OG up?

 

[cuttsjp]

You won't need to get the OG up, just don't let it ferment quite the whole way, and bottle when the sweetness/dryness level has reached your liking. Prime and bottle as you would beer, then in the same spirit of "as you like it," do the pasteurization when the carbonation level is to your liking. Easy as pie.

 

[CoffeeSnob]

A few notes to share on my experience...

I have two gallons of cider bottled. One is a standard apple juice / sugar and the other is apple juice, fresh cherry juice / sugar. Both had a OG of ~1.07. After the exact same time fermenting the apple juice was ~1.02 and the cherry / apple was 1.00.

I primed with sugar and bottled with flip top pint bottles. Two days later there was almost no carbonation in the apple juice cider and TONS in the cherry. I opened all the cherry bottles briefly to release some of the pressure (I'm a chicken) and they were not fountains but bubbles did rise out the top of the bottles.

I just got done pasteurizing a total of 8 apple ciders and 7 cherry / apple ciders. No issues at all.

On one of the batches I added a bottle with room temperature water and a thermometer on top. The water bath started at 190 degrees. After 20 minutes the water in the bottle was 140.

Unfortunately I have to go on a business trip tomorrow so I won't be able to try them until Thursday night

 

[Pappers_]

Just a heads-up that I will be away from hbt.com for a while. There are plenty of folks here who can answer questions or offer advice on this thread. If you need to reach me, send a pm, and I'll get notified of it via email on my cell phone, and I can try to get back to you when possible.

I'm back from my brief time away and am able to check back on hbt.com now.

Cherry cider sounds interesting, Coffeesnob, I'm interested in hearing how that turns out. Glad the stove-top pastuerizing worked out for you.

 

[CoffeeSnob]

I'm back from my brief time away and am able to check back on hbt.com now.

Cherry cider sounds interesting, Coffeesnob, I'm interested in hearing how that turns out. Glad the stove-top pastuerizing worked out for you.

The cherries were in the carboy from the get-go and the yeast REALLY liked the food. It was pretty much fermented dry as compared to the apple only cider I started at the same time (which is still sweet). Nearly all the cherry flavor is gone. If I were to do it again (and I will!) I'll add the cherry juice at the end of the process to keep some more flavor.

I'm hoping that a few weeks in the bottles will improve things a bit.

 

[Pappers_]

Interesting, CoffeeSnob. I've been thinking about trying a cherry cider and a pomegranate cider.

 

[Gordond]

A couple of questions..
have you found some aging of the cider after pasteurisation..(process that I've been looking for..but I'm worried that the usual improvement in the cider taste after a couple of weeks won't happen after doing this).
and looking at your original pic...a see a very nice head on the cider ! does it last and what is it about your original recipe that makes it so good..my ciders never produce something like that..!!
Thanks for all the great info !!

 

[Pappers_]

A couple of questions..
have you found some aging of the cider after pasteurisation..(process that I've been looking for..but I'm worried that the usual improvement in the cider taste after a couple of weeks won't happen after doing this).
and looking at your original pic...a see a very nice head on the cider ! does it last and what is it about your original recipe that makes it so good..my ciders never produce something like that..!!
Thanks for all the great info !!

Gordond, the cider that I use stove-top pasteurizing on is a simple, draft-style cider that doesn't require aging. Typically, a four-gallon batch will be gone in less than a month in our household.

The cider I make doesn't really have a 'head' as much as carbonation. When you pour it, some foam accumulates on top but it dissipates quickly.

Cheers!

 

[Vance71975]

Regarding the ideas about using a dishwasher, I don't know enough about how warm a dishwasher gets, how consistent the heat is, etc. Perhaps someone else will want to explore this possible method.

John, my cider is ready to drink immediately, I suspect the difference in our experiences has to do with the recipes we use rather than any difference caused by the pasteurization.

Naeco, I did not use freshly pressed cider in that batch. Using store-bought filtered cider, it cleared in the bottles quickly.

Heated Dry cycle is usually around 190 degrees. Water temp will vary unless your dishwasher heats the water with the element.

 

[Gordond]

Thanks Pappers,

I read through all the 28 pages of this thread (it would make a good book..not sure if it'll be a mystery or a thriller though). I'm going to try the pasteurization following exactly your method using mini (375ml) champagne bottles they are rated at 7 bar with 29mm caps..should give me some margin. I'll just have to make sure the cider works out good from the start without relying too much on aging in the bottle..though I am sure some improvement over the short term will happen, even if the yeast is killed, as the carbonation reaches equilibrium between the air-space and the cider.

The head on your cider looks great even if I now I know not to expect "Belgian lace".

Cheers to you too !

 

[natewv]

wow so long story short, pasteurizing this way allows what's left of the sugars to carb until you like where it is then you kill the yeast so you don't need to add sweetener at all, huh? or am i missing something? My recipe I was thinking of doing in the next day or two included 4 cans of concentrate...so is that not necessary in this situation or do I still need that to get the OG up?

I've read through a lot of this, but I was hoping someone could give me some last advice...pursuant to my last question...can someone help me fill in the blanks here?

8 days ago I started my first batch of "cider" (on a healthy ale yeast cake) made up of 4.5 gallons of apple juice and 6 cans of apple concentrate, OG was around 1.066. I'm aiming for a:
*slightly sweet (i.e., mostly dry)
*hopefully strong,
*lightly carbonated beverage.

Based on your experiences:

*How much long should I let primary fermentation go (am i aiming for a preferred taste [and if so do i start checking now...after 8 days] or a preferred gravity)?

*Once I decide to bottle, do I need to prime (and is this reliant on the answer to the first question)? If I prime it will be with another can or 2 of apple or another fruit's concentrate(meant to use a natural cherry concentrate can or two at the start but my ****ty grocery store had none but apple)...i do not want to use any artifical stuff.

How long after I bottle should I try to pasteurize?

Thanks for your help!

 

[Pappers_]

*How much long should I let primary fermentation go (am i aiming for a preferred taste [and if so do i start checking now...after 8 days] or a preferred gravity)?

I aim for about 1.010 - 1.012 gravity, so bottle when it reaches that.

*Once I decide to bottle, do I need to prime (and is this reliant on the answer to the first question)? If I prime it will be with another can or 2 of apple or another fruit's concentrate(meant to use a natural cherry concentrate can or two at the start but my ****ty grocery store had none but apple)...i do not want to use any artifical stuff.

You don't need to prime, the yeast will keep eating the sugars still in the cider. That being said, I usually do prime, so that the gravity stays at where I want it.

How long after I bottle should I try to pasteurize?

After you bottle, you need to check your bottles regularly and pasteurize when it's appropriately carbonated. Err on the side of checking too often and early. For me, with the cider I make using Nottingham yeast, it can be anywhere from three to seven days.

Another option for you is to use the method described at www.makinghardcider.com

 

[natewv]

I aim for about 1.010 - 1.012 gravity, so bottle when it reaches that.

You don't need to prime, the yeast will keep eating the sugars still in the cider. That being said, I usually do prime, so that the gravity stays at where I want it.

Ok so my gravity is already down to 1.005. It tasted pretty dry, so I'd like to add a bit more of something sweet to sweeten it and increase the gravity, and then I guess bottle pretty soon? What would you add to prime it? I only mentioned the concentrate because the recipe I happened to use indicated as much.

 

[Pappers_]

You could add more juice to get to around 1.012, bottle, and keep a close eye on it to see when you need to pasteurize.

Or you could backsweeten with a non-fermentable, as suggested in the procress described in www.makinghardcider.com

Good luck!

 

[natewv]

You could add more juice to get to around 1.012, bottle, and keep a close eye on it to see when you need to pasteurize.

Or you could backsweeten with a non-fermentable, as suggested in the procress described in www.makinghardcider.com

Good luck!

Thank you, i read through the making hard cider site, and I just don't like the idea of backsweetening with non-fermentables. I have no real good reason, I know Xylitol is natural and all, it just 'seems' unnatural...same as splenda, etc. I am going to try to use your method of stopping fermentation.

I guess what I was asking about being at 1.005 is after 9 days are my yeasties dead, or have they just eaten all the sugar and are becoming dormant...so that when I add more juice to bring up the gravity as you suggest, I will get a) the additional sweetness I want and b) the carbonation I want until I pasteurize?

Edit: Last question, I promise!

 

[Pappers_]

I guess what I was asking about being at 1.005 is after 9 days are my yeasties dead, or have they just eaten all the sugar and are becoming dormant...so that when I add more juice to bring up the gravity as you suggest, I will get a) the additional sweetness I want and b) the carbonation I want until I pasteurize?

Edit: Last question, I promise!

No, your yeast isn't dead, dormant, or done eating the sugars. They will keep eating the apple sugars until they are all gone and your gravity is 1.000 or less.

When you add in the apple juice to backsweeten, they will start to eat that up, too.

So, backsweeten to the level you want, bottle immediately, start checking for carbonation, and pasteurize. As I mentioned above, err on the side of checking for carbonation early and often, and don't pasteurize over-carbonated bottled.

 

[CoffeeSnob]

Ok, can someone give an idea as to what over-carbonated entails? People mention "fountains" when they open something over carbonated and that would be dangerous to heat pasteurize.

I had some bottles which when I opened to test they foamed up out of the bottle but did not spray or shoot out. I closed them back up (flip top). Considering they foamed like that I opened them all up to release some of the pressure before pasteurizing. Sadly, they are all flat with only the slightest hint of carbonation.

So guess what I'm asking is when the test bottle is opened what should we be looking for?

 

[Pappers_]

Generally, mine don't foam up. I open and pour into a glass, and look for a steady stream of beads for carbonation. Because its cider, it doesn't get a head, like beer. Its the beads of CO2 streaming up through the cider that I look for.

You may have to experiment a little, find the balance that works best for you.

 

[ncodedcode]

I read through all the 29 pages of this thread. Someone asked a question before, which is quite similar to the one I have. I didnt see it answered, so I',m asking again (sorry if it was in fact answered) -
If you open a bottle before pasteurizing and realize that the carbonation is not to your liking (or none at all), should you recap and check the same bottle again next day or another bottle? I'm assuming a newer bottle since some C02 will escape when I open the cap. Also, will the carbonation be affected to a larger degree after you recap?
Thanks for such an informative thread... I hope to someday find enough courage to try it without fear of bottle bombs

 

[mcwilcr]

I read through all the 29 pages of this thread. Someone asked a question before, which is quite similar to the one I have. I didnt see it answered, so I',m asking again (sorry if it was in fact answered) -
If you open a bottle before pasteurizing and realize that the carbonation is not to your liking (or none at all), should you recap and check the same bottle again next day or another bottle? I'm assuming a newer bottle since some C02 will escape when I open the cap. Also, will the carbonation be affected to a larger degree after you recap?
Thanks for such an informative thread... I hope to someday find enough courage to try it without fear of bottle bombs

I asked a similar question to this a few months ago, Pappers basically said he has never tried it but it couldnt hurt so I went ahead and did it. My observations of the results are as follows.

1) the primary issue with this process is that bottle carbing is a warm(ish) process but CO2 doesn't dissolve well in warm liquids so you end up loosing allot of carbonation when opening a bottle up. Ideally, you would need to refrigerate the test bottle a couple of days for the CO2 to properly desolve in the liquid but then it would not be a good representation of the rest of the batch. So.....

2) Observing the fact that it is not anywhere near an ideal process, I do it this way anyway (using a different test bottle each time). Once I have achieved a desirable level of carbonation (4-6 days), I pasteurize the un-tested bottles and leave the tested bottles sit another day or two and then just throw those in the fridge. I have done it this way twice now and the results have been good enough that I dont see changing methods any time soon.

 

[Pappers_]

I read through all the 29 pages of this thread. Someone asked a question before, which is quite similar to the one I have. I didnt see it answered, so I',m asking again (sorry if it was in fact answered) -
If you open a bottle before pasteurizing and realize that the carbonation is not to your liking (or none at all), should you recap and check the same bottle again next day or another bottle? I'm assuming a newer bottle since some C02 will escape when I open the cap. Also, will the carbonation be affected to a larger degree after you recap?
Thanks for such an informative thread... I hope to someday find enough courage to try it without fear of bottle bombs

I always drink the cider from the test bottle, over ice.

 

[ncodedcode]

I asked a similar question to this a few months ago, Pappers basically said he has never tried it but it couldnt hurt so I went ahead and did it. My observations of the results are as follows.

1) the primary issue with this process is that bottle carbing is a warm(ish) process but CO2 doesn't dissolve well in warm liquids so you end up loosing allot of carbonation when opening a bottle up. Ideally, you would need to refrigerate the test bottle a couple of days for the CO2 to properly desolve in the liquid but then it would not be a good representation of the rest of the batch. So.....

2) Observing the fact that it is not anywhere near an ideal process, I do it this way anyway (using a different test bottle each time). Once I have achieved a desirable level of carbonation (4-6 days), I pasteurize the un-tested bottles and leave the tested bottles sit another day or two and then just throw those in the fridge. I have done it this way twice now and the results have been good enough that I dont see changing methods any time soon.

Thanks for the tips! I don't mind drinking the cider without enough carbonation. Since I am trying to learn, I am making 1 gallon batches which give me 10-11 bottles per batch.. so I want at least a few with real carbonation I guess I need to either make more batches quickly or do a 5 gallon batch... more cider for me either ways

 

[ncodedcode]

I always drink the cider from the test bottle, over ice.

Thanks for the reply.. never hurts to "test/taste" a bottle of cider any time

 

[mcbethenstein]

Can this be done with beer? I've been reading in the brewing with wheat book that many commercial brewers flash pasteurize after bottle conditioning to avoid autolysis and the yeast from reabsorbing favorable esters and phenols. I might like to try this in the near future.
Would it be safe if my beer is carbed to 3.5 volumes? Any insights that might help a brewer out?

 

[Pappers_]

Can this be done with beer? I've been reading in the brewing with wheat book that many commercial brewers flash pasteurize after bottle conditioning to avoid autolysis and the yeast from reabsorbing favorable esters and phenols. I might like to try this in the near future.
Would it be safe if my beer is carbed to 3.5 volumes? Any insights that might help a brewer out?

I began doing stove top pasteurizing after visiting a very small brewery in Riba, Denmark. They pasteurize their beers, putting the bottles in a large metal box which is filled with hot water.

So, I know it's possible, although I can't say whether it's advantageous or not.

 

[Gordond]

After first couple of trials using this method I've had good results stopping the fermentation and no particular problems..

Surprisingly high final temp. start 190 F, finish after 15 mins 178 F.
With 5 small bottles at a time in a very large (80 litre) stainless pot.

The bottles were the small (375ml) champagne type (hence the 15 mins for safety).
So far so good....Thanks !!

 

[Delaney]

Hey,

thanks for the great tutorial. I am going to try this in in a couple of months, I'll be making cider for the first time.

I'd like to know how much priming sugar you add prior to bottling. For example, if I were to allow the cider to completely ferment out, what carbonation volume would I seek?

 

[Pappers_]

I'd like to know how much priming sugar you add prior to bottling. For example, if I were to allow the cider to completely ferment out, what carbonation volume would I seek?

Hi Delany, I use 2/3 cup if white sugar dissolved in two cups of water for a five gallon batch. I used to weigh it, but because I use the same amount every time, it's easier, less fuss to just measure out 2/3 cup.

In your question, you say you will let your cider ferment out. If by that you mean ferment until the yeast is done and the cider is dry, then you can prime and bottle without worrying about bottle bombs, no Pasteurizing needed. You'll end up with dry sparkling cider. Does that make sense?

 

[Delaney]

Hi Delany, I use 2/3 cup if white sugar dissolved in two cups of water for a five gallon batch. I used to weigh it, but because I use the same amount every time, it's easier, less fuss to just measure out 2/3 cup.

In your question, you say you will let your cider ferment out. If by that you mean ferment until the yeast is done and the cider is dry, then you can prime and bottle without worrying about bottle bombs, no Pasteurizing needed. You'll end up with dry sparkling cider. Does that make sense?

Yes I understand completely. I intend to follow your method and bottle before the cider is 100% dry. The reason I asked for the carbonation volume is that I will likely be fermenting an odd number of gallons, and it would be easier for me to calculate.

I assume therefore that for a 10 gallon batch, I can simply add 4/3 cups of dextrose? 15 gallons = 6/3 cups? etc...

Obviously precision is not key as there is residual sugar. I've never made cider nor do I know how sweet they should be, which is why I'd like to follow your advice for a level of sweetness similiar to what would be achieved with your method.

You also mention that the cider can be chilled after it is pasteurized, and is ready to serve. Does bottle conditioning improve the quality of the cider such as would be the case with wines? Or is it good to go once it's cold? Will the quality of the cider degrade with time, such as is the case with beer?

I appreciate the advice, and tutorial.