(e)BIAB vs. 3-vessel - Give me your opinions!

[trevelynzx]

Hey all - doing research on a future investment in a complete brewing system. I know I want it to be 30/ 50a electric and have been planning for 2 years on a 3-vessel system similar to @kal's design. Now I'm starting to consider eBIAB.

Today I use a 10gal cooler mash tun and a 15gal Blichmann pot to do standard all-grain 10-11gal batches. No pumps, and it's a huge pain. Brew days are typically 6 hours and a lot of heavy lifting. I'm thinking of getting a Wilser bag & ratchet to head in the BIAB direction. Still trying to formulate how best to do that (i.e. no sparge/ full volume, etc.).

What are your thoughts on moving toward BIAB? BIAB in mash tun or full volume in kettle? Spike+ 3-vessel system or something like Grounded Brewing's eBIAB for my future commitment?

Any and all opinions are welcomed and appreciated!

 

[trevelynzx]

...also, I'm sure I'm not the first to ask this question, feel free to link me other topics in the same vein! I'll read them all eventually.

 

[PeteSeattle]

Hi! Exciting times for you it seems. It’s always fun to plan out your future brewery. Congrats! I just went through this process this past summer.

Here’s a link to a thread with someone who is going through the same thing.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...all-over-again-but-electric-this-time.655641/

Pretty interesting conversation with owners of 3 vessel and eBiab systems.

Cheers!

 

[Bobby_M]

BIAB for me is a 4 hour brew day and the best beers I've made in 12 years. I'm currently tied for 2nd for NJ home brewer of the year, just to illustrate its not ugly child syndrome.

 

[jcav]

Congrats Bobby! I have a three vessel e-herms Kal clone. But those brew in a bag systems are also an excellent way to go. It is a decision your going to have to make. Maybe someone near you (in a home brew club) has a three vessel system you can see in action on a brew day. You can taste the beer several weeks later to get a better idea on how that brew day goes. Then hopefully someone can let you see their BIAB system in action and this would help in your decision..... Good luck! It's great to upgrade your brewery!

John

 

[Bobby_M]

By all means, each system design is capable of the same end. For me, speed and repeatability gave me the ability to brew as often as once a week even putting in insane work hpurs.

 

[jcav]

There is a lot to be said for that Bobby and time is valuable to me too! I wish my brew day was 4 hours. I set up my brewery the night before a brew day (as my system is stored in the garage and I brew on my covered lanai) so brewing, cleaning and then breaking it down is right around 8 hours. I love to brew and the brewing process but shaving a few hours off a brew day would be a bonus for me. Something to think about when picking systems to build....

John

 

[mirthfuldragon]

Today's brew day: 20 pounds of grain, 13g of water, 11g net to fermentor, 90 minute mash, 4.5 hours start to finish, 73% efficiency. BIAB on propane. At this point I can't justify spending more money on the system because it works really well and money won't make better beer for me at this point. Note: 20 pounds of grain and 13g of water will fit in a keggle. Barely. I should have taken a picture. Pre-boil OG was 1.040, FG 1.050.

I'm a BIAB convert. Grain is double-crushed at my LHBS. A grain mill and a 50' stainless IC are on my Christmas list.

 

[RM-MN]

Today's brew day: 20 pounds of grain, 13g of water, 11g net to fermentor, 90 minute mash, 4.5 hours start to finish, 73% efficiency. BIAB on propane. At this point I can't justify spending more money on the system because it works really well and money won't make better beer for me at this point. Note: 20 pounds of grain and 13g of water will fit in a keggle. Barely. I should have taken a picture. Pre-boil OG was 1.040, FG 1.050.

I'm a BIAB convert. Grain is double-crushed at my LHBS. A grain mill and a 50' stainless IC are on my Christmas list.

Mill your grains finer (since you are BIAB, use it to its best advantage) and reduce the amount of grain and shorten the mash period. Add a dunk or pour over sparge to raise the efficiency even more. With finely milled grain you can go even less than a 60 minute mash for full conversion and knock off some more time too.

 

[Dland]

I like my 3 vessel system, and now that it is electric have my brew day down to about 5 hours for 11-12 gallons of wort. When all goes as planed, the beer is cooled and pitched in 4-4.5 hours, but now I double sanitize lines and cooler before I put them away.

BIAB does look handy for kitchen brewing, or if storage/ work space is a constraint, especially if your batches are lower in volume.

 

[kevin58]

I just ordered an electric system two days ago. I had a choice between single vessel BIAB or 3-kettle herms. I've done both on propane rigs and knew from experience that without a lift system to handle the weight of the bag, I am limited in what I can make. I don't want to live with those limitations and I don't want to install a lift system. I have also experienced mash efficiency issues using BIAB that I didn't want to deal with. Not that overcoming those issues are hard. I just chose not to.

So I just pulled the plug on the High Gravity Brewing, Wort Hog 5-10gallon 3-vessel electric system. I have a space cleared for it in the garage... the electrician arrives day after tomorrow to install a 220 outlet and hopefully I will be brewing again before the end of October.

 

[jekeane]

I own a 3 vessel eherms setup and I love it.

I also have a grainfather I got used that I enjoy, although it is underpowered.

If I hadn’t started with 3 vessel I likely would have designed a ebiab setup. Mostly to save space.

They both work well.

 

[beernutz]

Hey all - doing research on a future investment in a complete brewing system. I know I want it to be 30/ 50a electric and have been planning for 2 years on a 3-vessel system similar to @kal's design. Now I'm starting to consider eBIAB.

Today I use a 10gal cooler mash tun and a 15gal Blichmann pot to do standard all-grain 10-11gal batches. No pumps, and it's a huge pain. Brew days are typically 6 hours and a lot of heavy lifting. I'm thinking of getting a Wilser bag & ratchet to head in the BIAB direction. Still trying to formulate how best to do that (i.e. no sparge/ full volume, etc.).

What are your thoughts on moving toward BIAB? BIAB in mash tun or full volume in kettle? Spike+ 3-vessel system or something like Grounded Brewing's eBIAB for my future commitment?

Any and all opinions are welcomed and appreciated!

I do both methods for 10 gallon batches and they both work pretty well. A consideration for me when putting together both systems is that due to my house configuration I always brew and store my equipment outside on or under a back deck so electric didn't seem to be a viable option.

For my home brewery I have a natural gas powered 3 vessel HERMS system and when I brew on the road I use a propane burner BIAB system with a Wilser bag, double hoist, ladder and the keggle from my 3 vessel system. I have a spare GreatbrewEh! pump I use when doing BIAB for recirculating and moving wort into the fermenter but I could probably brew without it.

BIAB is definitely a quicker method for me as I can have wort in the fermenter in about 4 hours or less if doing full wort boils whereas with the 3 vessel it usually takes me 5.5 to 6 hours start to finish, however I tend to multitask when I brew at home and often let the mash go for much longer than an hour and I may boil for more than 90 minutes. Cleanup is also easier with BIAB as I just dump the bag and rinse the keggle whereas cleaning the mash tun cooler is kind of a PITA in addition to cleaning the keggle.

 

[Dland]

[QUOTE="beernutz, post: 8412564, member: 150] I always brew and store my equipment outside on or under a back deck so electric didn't seem to be a viable option.
[/QUOTE]

If you ever decide to go electric, it is OK to leave kettles outside if heat is supplied by tri clamp mounted element. I often do if not snowy or too much caterpillar crap coming down, or they go into a nearby shipping container. I use a portable controller (Auban cube) that of course goes inside.

 

[NewJersey]

I am now going from 3 vessel on natural gas 10 gallon batches to eBIAB doing 5 gallon batches. The simplicity and speed are what draw me to eBIAB. No sparge is so much simpler. Dunk the grains for an hour and then lift em out and boil.
I'm pretty much set on the Unibrau V3 kit, but m waiting until i see what SS brewtech comes out with. I like the control units to maintain perfect mash temps hands off. Unibrau's setup is gearedtowards 120v, but they do have 240v. I think the 240v 5500watt will get up to mash temps and then up to boil in a hurry.
After a few years of doing 3 vessel large batches I'm pretty over it. Lots of heavy lifting and cleaning large vessels got old for me.

 

[brewswithshoes]

As a brewer that has used both systems extensively, I preferred my 3 vessel electric system. However when I factored in time, etc I ended up selling it all off and brew on a Brew Boss or my CBS BIAB systems now.

I loved the way the 3V worked and had so much fun putting it together, but 5-6 hour brew days finally got to me.

I can now do a 5G batch on the brew boss in about 3 hours start to finish if I am diligent and clean as I go. A little longer for a 10-12G batch on the CBS.

Time to brew is way more attractive to me now, although I will still admit I enjoyed brewing on the 3V system more.

One thing I will never do is move away from electric brewing now.

If you have the chance to brew on a 3V definitely try it and see if you are good with the more time you’ll have to invest in a brew session. There is no right or wrong way to go, just the way that suits how you want/need to brew now.

Good luck whichever way you go. I still feel I make great beer regardless of the system used.

 

[Dog House Brew]

If I were starting over, I’d follow Bobby and go BIAB. It just makes sense to me. Less time, less equipment, less space, and same beer quality.
Myself, I’m an exterior 3 vessel NG HERMS system. My 20 gallon brew days are 10 hrs including setup, and breakdown.

 

[Redpappy]

I’m still on the learning curve, so take this for what it is worth.

I am going torwards 5 gal EBIAB. The reason I chose to go this route, is for the following reasons.

1. I just started AG, so I had no equipment other than a 5 Gal kettle ( extract starter kit).so buying a single kettle and a bag and I now, I’m doing AG.

2. Well... that’s pretty much it, since most of my small research pointed me torwards BIAB for low cost. Tight budget.

From what I understand, with the 3 vesselsystem you have a little more control of things (hope I’m making a correct statement) so in honesty I beleive it is more based on what you prefer, space you have available, and how much time you want to dedicate to your HOBBY.

I have teetered the thought of once I have my brew house built and everything set up for EBIAB, to build a 3 vessel system, just to learn and see the difference of doing a fullmash and sparge versus the Bag.

I havnt brewed in several months ( I did do 2 brews a month ago, but it felt more like a chore, bottled one batch today, and will be doing the other one tomorrow, because of my living conditions. But before My living conditions went to ****, I brewed for enjoyment and relaxation, and loved it. Taking a full day to not do anything but brew ( sanitize, everything in between,and clean up) and enjoy a Day was great.

Moral of this is, what are you looking for? How do you want to proceed? Are you looking for less time? Are you wanting more control? And of course, what kind of funds do you have.

 

[teesherv]

I prefer what I call a hybrid of the 2. Maybe a 2 vessel? Mash run cooler with a mesh bag hooked to a pulley system, batch sparge. Kind of tiered so I only lift a 2 or 3 gallon bucket twice into a kettle that was a hlt a few steps earlier in the brew day. I use removable hot rods from bobby m.
I wanted to ebiab, but couldn't get consistent results. So what I do now sounds funky but works great.