Dryness question: Strongbow

[BigAndo]

Hi there,

I'm hoping to brew a basic cider my husband will enjoy. He enjoys Weston's and his go to cider in pubs is usually Strongbow, not because it's very good, but because it's not too sweet. I'm not (yet) a seasoned cider drinker, and what I was wondering is, where on the sweet/dry scale does Strongbow, or Weston's, lie? My instinct is that if I bottle unsweetened and let it sit for a few weeks, it should be the right sweetness?

What do you guys think??


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[Randzor]

I don't remember the exact special, but strong bow is considered a dry cider. If you add extra sugar to your brew, let it sit longer and it'll taste better dry.

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[Fuzzymittenbrewing]

Hi there,

I'm hoping to brew a basic cider my husband will enjoy. He enjoys Weston's and his go to cider in pubs is usually Strongbow, not because it's very good, but because it's not too sweet. I'm not (yet) a seasoned cider drinker, and what I was wondering is, where on the sweet/dry scale does Strongbow, or Weston's, lie? My instinct is that if I bottle unsweetened and let it sit for a few weeks, it should be the right sweetness?

What do you guys think??


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Yup its a English Dry. What kind of yeast are you using?

 

[BigAndo]

Yup its a English Dry. What kind of yeast are you using?

This time I just used youngs wine yeast. (I was eager to get started! Lol) From what I've read here though, I'm considering using Nottingham ale yeast next time? (Open to suggestions!)
My recipe was:
1 gallon pressed apple juice
Half a cup strong tea
1 cup Demerara sugar
1 teaspoon yeast

It's been fermenting for a week at 68F and the bubbling is slowing down a bit now. I'm not fussy about it being massively strong, and also, if it turns out cloudy, that's ok too!
I'm planning to bottle condition for a little bit of fizz.


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[BigAndo]

I don't remember the exact special, but strong bow is considered a dry cider. If you add extra sugar to your brew, let it sit longer and it'll taste better dry.

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At what points should I let it sit longer? First fermentation, or in the bottles? Is it worth racking once into another Demi John and letting it sit for a while more before bottling?
There are so many variables! Lol my goal for the first batch is just to produce something drinkable. Surely, I must be able to produce something at least as good as Strongbow!


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[Fuzzymittenbrewing]

At what points should I let it sit longer? First fermentation, or in the bottles? Is it worth racking once into another Demi John and letting it sit for a while more before bottling?
There are so many variables! Lol my goal for the first batch is just to produce something drinkable. Surely, I must be able to produce something at least as good as Strongbow!


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Personally I prefer White Labs English Dry Cider yeast. Produces a nice dry cider and retains nice apple flavor. Once fermentation is done Ill let it sit another week or two and let it bottle condition. Secondary is not really needed IMO.

 

[BigAndo]

I kind of thought the secondary wasn't really required. I want to try and keep things as simple as possible to start with. Once I've got a few batches done, I can start dicking about more.


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[oljimmy]

Sorry everyone above, but you're dead wrong, Strongbow is *not* a dry cider on any measure. Standard scales have it that the 'dry' category starts around 1.004 and below. Strongbow looks to be a 'medium'.

A quick google shows that Strongbow has, per bottle, between 8-20g of sugar, depending on which kind of you get. That's going to put it around at least 1.007, maybe quite a bit higher. So, if you ferment dry and bottle-condition, you will get nothing that tastes like a Strongbow, because you won't have any sugar left.

Anyway, for a particular style, nothing beats looking up the nutritional info and trying to calculate what the final gravity is based on the amount of sugar (this can be done). But more generally, do not trust the labeling/packaging, they can write "dry" on a cider when it's got loads of sugar in it.

 

[BigAndo]

Sooo, to get to a similar level of dryness, what would you suggest?


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[oljimmy]

Either backsweetening (adding apple sugars after fermentation is done) or cold-crashing+sulfiting at the desired sweetness during fermentation! Either way, the trick is to get the yeast to stop eating sugar, by subduing them, killing them or racking away from them. Definitely read the sticky on pasteurization for the "killing" part.

 

[BigAndo]

.

 

[BigAndo]

I would like a slightly fizzy end product, and I'm going to bottle. If I add enough sugar (or apple concentrate or whatever) to back sweeten, and then add another 1 teaspoon of sugar per pint bottle to condition, how long after bottling should I wait to halt the fermentation?




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[oljimmy]

Hi ando,

I don't think there's a formula, because it's hard to tell how "active" your yeast are when you bottle, every cider will be slightly different in this respect. So what some people do (it's worked for me) is fill a PET soda/pop bottle with finished, sweetened cider during bottling, give it a little squeeze, cap it airtight, and then wait until it's solid or hard. That's when there will be some fizz to it. Hard to say exactly how much, but this takes some of the guesswork out.

I ferment low and slow, so my yeast are pretty inactive when I do this, and it often takes more than a week to carbonate. But others bottle with yeast that's still pretty 'happy', and as I understand it full carbonation can happen in 48 hours.

 

[mopar318]

Strongbow is not made the same as a homemade cider either.

They add sugar and ferment it out to 12% ABV or so, and then dilute it with water, flavoring, and more sugar.

 

[phug]

We we need now is someone who is willing to collect data, and put together a table to help us determine the difference between actual SG and perceived SG as a factor of the level of carbonation.

That Carbonic bite due to carbonation has a significant effect on the perception of sweetness. That much I know, thanks to a study that was funded by InBev.

But they didn't do anything to determine what the perceptual difference is in terms of anything quantitative.

I know, that my cider then went into the bottles at 1.014, and carbed up, and is probably in the neighborhood of 1.012, tastes like it's way down near 1.002-1.004.

 

[BigAndo]

I think I need to taste a lot of different ciders! and measure their SG. And make some notes. I wonder if the results to that InBev study are available somewhere.

I'm definitely going to do the plastic bottle trick for carbonation, and I'll probably err on the side of caution as to when I pasteurise.

I knew Strongbow wasn't a good cider, but that method of making it has put me right off it! Lol



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[phug]

I wonder if the results to that InBev study are available somewhere.

Here you go.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0071488

 

[roastquake]

1. take a Strongbow and let it go flat, then take a hydrometer reading. That will tell you how sweet it truly is.

2. When I pasteurized my semi-sweet cider I waited one week exactly, no testing, figured I would err on the side of caution. It came out slightly carbonated, enough for just a little bite on the tongue. I'm happy with it, but next time I would give it 1.5, maybe 2 weeks and see if I like that better. Again, it will be different every time

 

[BigAndo]

1. take a Strongbow and let it go flat, then take a hydrometer reading. That will tell you how sweet it truly is.

2. When I pasteurized my semi-sweet cider I waited one week exactly, no testing, figured I would err on the side of caution. It came out slightly carbonated, enough for just a little bite on the tongue. I'm happy with it, but next time I would give it 1.5, maybe 2 weeks and see if I like that better. Again, it will be different every time

I measured the SG of old Rosie after letting it go flat and got 1010.

My basic cider has been fermenting for two weeks and is now sitting at 1000, and fairly draws the cheeks in. It's definitely cider though, so, for a first time, I'm counting this as a win!

What to do next? Can I back sweeten, add carbing sugar and bottle? (It's as cloudy as hell, but I don't think that really matters??)


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[phug]

go for it, but remember that you'll have to use unfermentable sugars for backsweetening, or you'll have to bottle pasteurize.

 

[BigAndo]

I'm going to try stove top pasteurising, I think! (For I am brave)


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[Fuzzymittenbrewing]

I'm going to try stove top pasteurising, I think! (For I am brave)


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Check this thread out. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=442291

 

[phug]

I measured the SG of old Rosie after letting it go flat and got 1010.

How sweet did it taste before going flat, and how sweet did it taste after losing the carb?

 

[BigAndo]

How sweet did it taste before going flat, and how sweet did it taste after losing the carb?

Ok, my palette is not educated at all, (working on it though!) so bear with me! The old Rosie was room temperature throughout. I think it tasted the same sweetness both carbed and flat, and I could tell before testing that it was definitely sweeter than my home brew atm. I definitely would not describe it as sweet though.

I then tried the same test with Weston's stowford press. It came out at 1020, although on tasting, I would have probably said it was the same level of sweetness as the old Rosie. In terms of flavour, it was rank in comparison though, like Strongbow, and tasted worse flat than it did carbed.


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