If you are in the USA, take a look at ritebrew.The lowest price I can find for a packet is $8.49.
If you are in the USA, take a look at ritebrew.The lowest price I can find for a packet is $8.49.
YEAST: The Practical Guide to Beer Fermentation by Chris White and Zamil Zainasheff
"Another case where you normally do not want to make a starter is with dry yeast. Dry yeast is inexpensive, and it is usually cheaper, easier, and safer to buy more dry yeast than to make a large starter. Many experts suggest that placing dry yeast in a starter just depletes the cell reserves that the yeast manufacturer tries to build into their product. For dry yeast, do a proper rehydration in tap water: do not make a starter."
from the book Yeast (copyright 2010) said:For dry yeast, do a proper rehydration in tap water: do not make a starter."
Label Peelers will ship dry yeast free via the post office. Wait until they have a sale and stock up.If you are in the USA, take a look at ritebrew.
Unlike religion and politics it's quite straightforward to determine what actually works better when pitching yeast. Very easy to control for our biases and opinions. Those who refuse to accept making a starter with dry yeast is better believe in something else, which they're entitled to do, of course. Not everyone's prepared to invest in more time and effort. Why should they? It boils down to a personal choice. For others the fun of brewing is about the challenge of continuous improvement and gaining knowledge to better understand.This argument is about as pointless as a "discussion" on religion or politics. We each have our ways because they work for us. Take every point expressed here with a grain of salt, and make a starter or not. They both work.
Excellento !!For liquid yeast, yes, but you don't want to make starters with dry yeast. It destroys their cell walls. Dry yeast is ready to go right out of the pack. Pitch 2 and call it a day.
Right, but you get to drink it and don't spend the time and money on multiple stepped starters.That's a starter batch, technically speaking. About 1g/L wort. That potentially translates into about 3 big starters from one pack of dry yeast
Starters, stepped or not, are a little bit like making a pot of tea. Very easy. Minimal hands-on time. They don't cost much either, if you make a little extra wort on brew day. Store it. Use it when needed. An uncle called 'Bob'Right, but you get to drink it and don't spend the time and money on multiple stepped starters.
Another thing I generally try to do is brew a series with using the slurry to repitch. Session steam-->5% lager-->strong lager. Usually I'll do some sort of lawnmower beer or something, then a pils, helles, schwarz, Penn porter, and then go for a dopplebock, baltic porter, etc. with the yeastcake.
What do you think is better about making a starter vs dry pitching?It doesn't work for me. And I've been doing valid comparisons in my brewing environment for several months now, specifically to assess the performance of dry lager yeast. I'm pretty confident the advice I offer (to the interested) is sound enough to be offered in the first place.
Right, but you get to drink it and don't spend the time and money on multiple stepped starters.
Another thing I generally try to do is brew a series with using the slurry to repitch. Session steam-->5% lager-->strong lager. Usually I'll do some sort of lawnmower beer or something, then a pils, helles, schwarz, Penn porter, and then go for a dopplebock, baltic porter, etc. with the yeastcake.
More viable cells programmed to ferment wort. Compared with dry yeast, programmed to adapt to commercial drying conditions. Basic biology really.What do you think is better about making a starter vs dry pitching?
So cell count is the reason you do itMore viable cells programmed to ferment wort. Compared with dry yeast, programmed to adapt to commercial drying conditions. Basic biology really.
Edit: pitching dry lager yeast I get unbalanced beers with an almost phenol off flavour mixed with a weird 'ironed cotton' thing. Don't get this any other time. Lagers fermented with a dry yeast starter or repitched slurry dry yeast at gen 0 are much cleaner, to me.
Just do it and don't tell anybody and you'll probably make a delicious beer.I finally have a fridge set up for temperature controlled fermentation, so I'm about to try my first lager. I usually don't do yeast starters, but I've seen a lot of things saying that they are a necessity for lagers. I've also seen things saying that starters are unnecessary or not recommended for dry yeast. But what if I'm making a lager with dry lager yeast? I have one packet of 34/70, 5 gallon batch.
Related question: If I make a starter, can I get away with using half the packet and saving the rest? (yeah, I'm a cheapskate.)
Just bottled a room-temp Helles style beer with Lutra kveik, so it will be interesting to see how the pseudo-lager compares to the real thing.
No difference in flavor? So why go through the extra step, time and money to make a starter?I have been brewing for 25 years.
I used to not make a starter with dry yeast, but when I finally started doing lagers I also started making starters with dry yeast.
Now I make starters with dry yeast all the time, for ales or lagers.
My experience is that I get better, more reliable, and more attenuation when I make starters with dry yeast.
I can't tell any difference in flavor at all.
I guess others may think it's not necessary or just flat wrong, and to each their own - but I'm gonna keep making starters...
No difference in flavor? So why go through the extra step, time and money to make a starter?
Flavor isn't what you're searching for when brewing? How do you come to the conclusion that you get better, more reliable yeast when making starters? I can understand the more attenuation, because it's measurable, but if the flavor is the same I'm not sure why you'd go through the hassle.A couple of reasons.
From my post, "My experience is that I get better, more reliable, and more attenuation when I make starters with dry yeast."
Also, dry yeast isn't as inexpensive as it used to be so starters are less expensive (since I do all grain) than buying multiple dry yeast packs.
Liquid yeast isn't an option where I live in the middle of AZ during the summer as there is no way to cool them during delivery even with the cool packs that they come with.
Flavor isn't what you're searching for when brewing? How do you come to the conclusion that you get better, more reliable yeast when making starters? I can understand the more attenuation, because it's measurable, but if the flavor is the same I'm not sure why you'd go through the hassle.
I routinely get warm liquid packs in the mail. Definitely make a starter for that. Only 1 pack has failed me in well over 200.
No local home brew shop? Maybe try to get a few liquid yeasts during cooler temps and harvest from starters. That's what I do. Store in 1L soda bottles with the screw tops.During the summer here, temps on my front porch are well over 100°F and by the time I get home any delivered liquid yeast (even cooled) is long dead...
In the past, when I direct pitched dry yeast I usually did get acceptable results - but once I started making starters with dry yeast my fermentation takes off much quicker and I have never had a high gravity brew stalled fermentation when using a dry yeast starter (which I have had happen with direct dry pitch).
Like I said in a previous post, I know some brewers will think I'm wasting my time or even doing detrimental procedures - but to each their own.
Yeah, no local HBS.No local home brew shop? Maybe try to get a few liquid yeasts during cooler temps and harvest from starters. That's what I do. Store in 1L soda bottles with the screw tops.
Bingo.Especially the "cheap" part. Yikes. $8-9 per packet does not induce me to think "I'll just buy two and save myself some time." In my internal battle between laziness and cheapness, cheapness wins.
The question in my mind is, why does putting dry yeast in a starter destroy the cell walls, and putting it into a fermenter doesn't?
My 'local' HBS is four hours round trip. Welcome to the South West. I've set up for dry yeast farming in the freezer, I'll let y'all know how it goes.Yeah, no local HBS.
Liquid yeast during the cooler temps is the only time I can get them without killing them.
I suppose I really need to start harvesting....
@TimLa, if you look at the quote from the book Yeast (reply #10), the word is 'depletes' not 'destroys'.
"Many experts suggest that placing dry yeast in a starter just depletes the cell reserves that the yeast manufacturer tries to build into their product"
So a starter undoes what the yeast manufacturer did.
But a starter also grows the amount of yeast.
Exactly. So making a starter from dry yeast is only a bad idea if you're going to do it wrong.And, in the case of the starter-produced-yeast, the sterol reserves are easily recovered by oxygenating the main batch of wort when pitching the yeast from the starter, allowing more growth.
What size starters are you typically making? Do you let the starter ferment out and decant the spent wort or pitch the entire starter during active fermentation?I make my starters in Erlenmeyer flasks on a magnetic stir plate just like I would if making a starter from liquid yeast, and I don't rehydrate first.
What size starters are you typically making? Do you let the starter ferment out and decant the spent wort or pitch the entire starter during active fermentation?
@TimLa, if you look at the quote from the book Yeast (reply #10), the word is 'depletes' not 'destroys'.
"Many experts suggest that placing dry yeast in a starter just depletes the cell reserves that the yeast manufacturer tries to build into their product"
I never posted anything about 'destroys'. Your quote refers to a post by 'wepeeler', post # 4 in this thread I believe.
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