Does anyone else think Sam Adam's beer sucks

[drkaeppel]

Overall, I enjoy Sam Adams beers. A few of them are far too sweet (Chocolate Cherry Bock) and most of them have a distinct aftertaste that I don't always like. I really enjoy their Oktoberfest and a few of their other seasonals.

 

[Justintoxicated]

I don't really care for any of them, but will drink when the other options are BMC, unless I'm at the desert, then I might take a BMC to quench my thirst. I think I liked their white ale many years ago, but I have tried it sense then and found it disgusting as well. But I live right next to Stone, and work less than a block from greenflash, and a few minutes from alesmith so I am definitely spoiled.

 

[Dan]

I don't really care for any of them, but will drink when the other options are BMC, unless I'm at the desert, then I might take a BMC to quench my thirst. I think I liked their white ale many years ago, but I have tried it sense then and found it disgusting as well. But I live right next to Stone, and work less than a block from greenflash, and a few minutes from alesmith so I am definitely spoiled.

Maybe you are spoiled by the great beer available. Nothing wrong with that Justinintoxicated - it happens.

As our pallets for beer grow
It dives into our soul
But don't ever forget or regret
The first beers you met!

Ha!

 

[DrunkleJon]

Bought the fall mix box the other night. Containing 2 of each Octoberfest, Pumpkin, A Hazelnut Brown, a Dunkel, the Latitude IPA, and the Boston Lager. I noticed something while drinking them. They all smell alike. Or not at all. I have noticed absolutely no aroma to any of them. I will enjoy the fruitless SA beers as they are consistant and better than the usual 'light' or 'lite' on offer. I do enjoy the Octoberfest, and I must say the Hazel Brown was tasty. The Latitude is a little lackluster, seemed a little too sweet/fruity for the amount of hops I tasted.

 

[doctorRobert]

Bought the fall mix box the other night. Containing 2 of each Octoberfest, Pumpkin, A Hazelnut Brown, a Dunkel, the Latitude IPA, and the Boston Lager. I noticed something while drinking them. They all smell alike. Or not at all. I have noticed absolutely no aroma to any of them. I will enjoy the fruitless SA beers as they are consistant and better than the usual 'light' or 'lite' on offer. I do enjoy the Octoberfest, and I must say the Hazel Brown was tasty. The Latitude is a little lackluster, seemed a little too sweet/fruity for the amount of hops I tasted.

I agree. I think it's a combination of their yeast strain, and the pasteurization - which is unusual for most craft breweries - however some do it and still have aroma.

 

[0202]

Another NO here. I have not tried a lot of their styles but I have only had one, a seasonal spiced or fruit beer, that I didn't like.

Fizzywhig was terrible. Boston Lager, Oktoberfest and Noble Pils were not bad at all. They beat BMC in variety and quality, and often show up at the same places.

NOT AN IMPORT.

 

[Whiskey]

I like SA and will drink most of the beers they produce. My biggest complaint is that some of my favorites are only bundled in the seasonal packs and never get released in their own six packs.

 

[WhiskeySam]

I think Sam Adams and Sierra Nevada both do the American Brewing Movement the most good. They both make consistent, good, sometimes great, reasonably priced beer that is distributed nationwide. I favor SN over Sam, but that doesn't mean that Sam Adams is "bad". Quite the contrary. They do a good job of making good-to-great beer and presenting it as such.

My problem, and every home brewers problem, with Sam Adams is the "competition" they run to "discover" new craft brewed beers. Their "Irish Red" for example, was a "winner" of this competition. This means that Sam Adams did not make their Irish Red, they bought it from a home brewer. Their "competition" awards the "winner" a one time fee of something like $5,000 bucks and no licensing residuals. THEY get the recipe and the ownership of the name. Think about this whenever you drink a Sam Adams Irish Red, or any of the other "Sam Adams" beers that were essentially stolen from one of our home brewing brothers and sisters.

Jim Koch, as a homebrewer himself, should feel nothing but shame about this.

 

[0202]

Jim Koch, as a homebrewer himself, should feel nothing but shame about this.

Or you could look at it like giving a home brewer the chance to work with a commercial brewery to distribute their beer nationally with their face and name on the bottle?

Isn't that embracing home brewers?

Other than that part, I thought your comments on both breweries were spot on.

 

[user 125772]

I think they make a fine beer, although I won't try anything with fruit.
I nevery buy it though because there are some many great beers from NC breweries available for same price or less.

 

[WhiskeySam]

Or you could look at it like giving a home brewer the chance to work with a commercial brewery to distribute their beer nationally with their face and name on the bottle?

Isn't that embracing home brewers?

Other than that part, I thought your comments on both breweries were spot on.

No, it's not embracing home brewers. It's encouraging them to participate in a competition so you can steal the best recipe and then profit from it without fairly compensating the inventor of the recipe. How many homebrewers enter this competition just for fun, then "win" and get their 5,000 dollar check, and then realize that THEIR BEER now belongs to Sam Adams and Sam Adams is profiting in perpetuity on their beer.

If this was a licensing agreement I'd have no problem with it. If there was some kind of part-ownership of the beer itself and the profits therefrom, I'd have no problem with it. But that's not what it is. It's an effort to take advantage of the "Homebrew Cred" that Jim Koch has and outsource their R&D functions to the homebrewing community.

 

[Bensiff]

Once upon a time I loved Alaskan Amber, then I noticed it seemed to lose something and I stopped drinking it. About a year later I read an article how right about the time I thought it lost something they had just installed a massive automated brewing system for flawless beers. I think that is the curse of the macro-micro's, they hit a point where quality control has to go through the roof and in that they lose part of their character, SA included. It reminds me of my uncle who is a concert pianist and professor of music, he says that Yamaha pianos are technically perfect in every way and because of that they have no soul and as such he prefers not to play them.

But, from everything I have ever read Koch is a stand-up guy who does plenty for homebrewers and small scale brewers so my hats off to him for being an example to the business.

 

[0202]

If this was a licensing agreement I'd have no problem with it.

This is a good point, one that I had overlooked and even lambasted similar competitions (non beer) in the past for. I guess I wanted to believe that they are doing something good but business is business. There could always be the case that licensing isn't practical like that, or some explanation making it less nefarious. Most home brewers probably won't ever sell their beer anyway, though the fair way to do it is to compensate them for the profit and not the idea.

 

[kaconga]

No, it's not embracing home brewers. It's encouraging them to participate in a competition so you can steal the best recipe and then profit from it without fairly compensating the inventor of the recipe. How many homebrewers enter this competition just for fun, then "win" and get their 5,000 dollar check, and then realize that THEIR BEER now belongs to Sam Adams and Sam Adams is profiting in perpetuity on their beer.

If this was a licensing agreement I'd have no problem with it. If there was some kind of part-ownership of the beer itself and the profits therefrom, I'd have no problem with it. But that's not what it is. It's an effort to take advantage of the "Homebrew Cred" that Jim Koch has and outsource their R&D functions to the homebrewing community.

So are you thinking the winner can no longer brew that recipe at home legally? I would feel honored to have a beer I created end up being tasted by such a large audience. Would I like to be the guy who makes all profits off said beer? You bet! Do I care to take the time, effort and capital to make that happen? No way. I would take the 5k and bragging rights over nothing. Hell if I could sell recipes for 5k a pop I would be happy.

 

[Bensiff]

This is a good point, one that I had overlooked and even lambasted similar competitions (non beer) in the past for. I guess I wanted to believe that they are doing something good but business is business. There could always be the case that licensing isn't practical like that, or some explanation making it less nefarious. Most home brewers probably won't ever sell their beer anyway, though the fair way to do it is to compensate them for the profit and not the idea.

They are a big company in a highly regulated industry...there may be good reason for this from a litigation or regulatory standpoint. I won't judge until I know for certain. On the flip side, I did notice that during the hop shortage they sold excess hops they contracted for to homebrewers and micros at cost.

 

[Cape Brewing]

No, it's not embracing home brewers. It's encouraging them to participate in a competition so you can steal the best recipe and then profit from it without fairly compensating the inventor of the recipe. How many homebrewers enter this competition just for fun, then "win" and get their 5,000 dollar check, and then realize that THEIR BEER now belongs to Sam Adams and Sam Adams is profiting in perpetuity on their beer.

If this was a licensing agreement I'd have no problem with it. If there was some kind of part-ownership of the beer itself and the profits therefrom, I'd have no problem with it. But that's not what it is. It's an effort to take advantage of the "Homebrew Cred" that Jim Koch has and outsource their R&D functions to the homebrewing community.

That's a huge steaming pile... None of those beers get made "in perpetuity". They are all special releases and Boston Beer Co "retains the rights" to those beers that, in any time in the future, they brew a similar beer, the contest winner can't come back and try to sue them over the beer.

Do you really think, with their resources they have they can't r&d any freakin beer style on the planet??

 

[bob1852]

They are a big company in a highly regulated industry...there may be good reason for this from a litigation or regulatory standpoint. I won't judge until I know for certain. On the flip side, I did notice that during the hop shortage they sold excess hops they contracted for to homebrewers and micros at cost.

And don't forget about their small loan program to help out new small breweries.

That's a huge steaming pile... None of those beers get made "in perpetuity". They are all special releases and Boston Beer Co "retains the rights" to those beers that, in any time in the future, they brew a similar beer, the contest winner can't come back and try to sue them over the beer.

Do you really think, with their resources they have they can't r&d any freakin beer style on the planet??

I agree. It's good PR for Sam Adams and it's a cool opportunity for the homebrewer who wins. It's just legalize to protect both parties, not some big ass conspiracy so Koch can get rich. Wait, is he related to the Koch brothers?


Besides, everyone knows that the breweries send their R&D teams to club night at NHC to get that info for free.

 

[Cape Brewing]

Besides, everyone knows that the breweries send their R&D teams to club night at NHC to get that info for free.

Pfft... Please. That's too far. They send their team down to Norton, Ma and scope out the epic libations of Cape Brewing. Until I gots all gangsta pro on their axes. Now they're shut off.

Rumor has it they have been checking out PTN... Hence the massive drop in sales and overall "poo" taste some folks have complained about.

 

[bob1852]

Pfft... Please. That's too far. They send their team down to Norton, Ma and scope out the epic libations of Cape Brewing. Until I gots all gangsta pro on their axes. Now they're shut off.

Ah, the whole 'take a tried and true style and somehow put some spin on it'?

 

[Cape Brewing]

I'll give you a spin on it!!!

Wait...

That's not right.

And mock all you want. When I'm jockin' alllllll da hoes... We'll see laughs after the other guy laughs last.... and sht.

 

[FutureJack]

No, it's not embracing home brewers. It's encouraging them to participate in a competition so you can steal the best recipe and then profit from it without fairly compensating the inventor of the recipe. How many homebrewers enter this competition just for fun, then "win" and get their 5,000 dollar check, and then realize that THEIR BEER now belongs to Sam Adams and Sam Adams is profiting in perpetuity on their beer.

If this was a licensing agreement I'd have no problem with it. If there was some kind of part-ownership of the beer itself and the profits therefrom, I'd have no problem with it. But that's not what it is. It's an effort to take advantage of the "Homebrew Cred" that Jim Koch has and outsource their R&D functions to the homebrewing community.

I cannot fathom how you came to the conclusion that Boston Brewing Company needs to outsource their R&D to eager homebrewers. Beer recipes are not some sacred cow - hence the reason so many breweries openly give out their recipes directly to their customers.

For a homebrewer who has invested no money - other than the cost of brewing a batch of beer - how do you think he or she should be more fairly treated than a wad of cash and his or her beer commercially produced and nationally distributed? Free R & D? Really?

I can guarantee you Sam Adams spends more money on their homebrew competitions than they ever recoup in sales.

 

[jordanpace]

I tried their variety pack a few years back. Could only finish the boston lager and noble pils. The rest were just awful tasting.

 

[bk0]

Back before I was a beer geek...BMC and Heine were what I drank...I didn't like Sam Adams. It tasted weird and bitter.

Now that I'm a homebrewer and beer geek I went to Boston and took the Sam Adams brewery tour. Boston Lager? Meh. Not bad, but kind of plain tasting. It's often the only non-BMC beer you can buy in some restaurants so if it's the only option I'll buy it just to support craft brewing.

 

[WhiskeySam]

I cannot fathom how you came to the conclusion that Boston Brewing Company needs to outsource their R&D to eager homebrewers. Beer recipes are not some sacred cow - hence the reason so many breweries openly give out their recipes directly to their customers.

For a homebrewer who has invested no money - other than the cost of brewing a batch of beer - how do you think he or she should be more fairly treated than a wad of cash and his or her beer commercially produced and nationally distributed? Free R & D? Really?

I can guarantee you Sam Adams spends more money on their homebrew competitions than they ever recoup in sales.

Forget R&D. Forget I said it. It was a rhetorical flourish that is clearly distracting from my point.

Yes, I feel that it's entirely unfair to take a home brewers recipe, pay a small one time fee and then sell it forever as your beer without crediting the home brewer in royalty or licensing.

I'm not sure how you're in a position to guarantee anything about Sam Adams financial positions but you sound like you're really really sure. So there's that.

 

[WhiskeySam]

As a question I'd like to know which breweries gives their recipes away? Sierra Nevada and Sam list malt bills and hops, but not in percentage or in any way that constitutes a recipe. No mash profiles are provided either. The reason for that is that they are protecting their intellectual property. Their trade secrets. I agree that even mildly advanced home brewers can deconstruct recipes, but it's just not true that they're "given away".

My bitch in all of this is that Sam doesn't fairly compensate the winners of these competitions. I still feel that way.

 

[Cape Brewing]

Yes, I feel that it's entirely unfair to take a home brewers recipe, pay a small one time fee and then sell it forever as your beer without crediting the home brewer in royalty or licensing.

And for the second time... they don't "sell it forever"... they are special releases that are only produced for a short period of time and the brewer's picture and name are right on the bottle.

... and everyone's point on R&D is that they don't need your, or any of our recipes. They have ZERO need to get their recipes from homebrewers. They do it as fun thing for homebrewers so they someone might be able to walk into a store and buy THEIR beer, with THEIR picture, right on the bottle.

If you don't like the concept of Boston Beer Co making whatever small amount of money they make on these small releases, that's 100% your right and don't enter the competition... but to say this is some grand screw-job that Boston Beer is pulling over on homebrewers so they can steal or profit from recipes is ridiculous.

 

[doctorRobert]

Jim Koch, as a homebrewer himself, should feel nothing but shame about this.

He is not a homebrewer, that's marketing.

He has a Harvard MBA and law degree and worked for Boston consulting. Before starting Boston beer. He didn't even brew his own beer but hired somebody to formulate a recipe and had it contract brewed out in Ohio.

Harpoon was brewing beer in mass before Sam Adams. Their Boston brewery is just for show and events. .

 

[Cape Brewing]

My bitch in all of this is that Sam doesn't fairly compensate the winners of these competitions. I still feel that way.

So it's not enough that they organize what is now a huge competition, organize all of the judges, provide the space, parking etc for all of the judges, interupt their normal production schedule in the brewery, go through the Feds to get approvals for the labels, R&D the actual recipes of the winners up to scale for a large brewery, actually BREW the beer, bottle it, promote it and then push it through their distribution channels with the brewers picture and name right on the bottle... you think that's unfair and Boston Beer should cut the winner a check too??

Because they're making so much cash off of the 20 bbl run of some guy's Skullplitter clone???

 

[doctorRobert]

Jim Koch, as a homebrewer himself, should feel nothing but shame about this.

He is not a homebrewer, that's marketing.

He has a Harvard MBA and law degree and worked for Boston consulting. Before starting Boston beer. He didn't even brew his own beer but hired somebody to formulate a recipe and had it contract brewed out in Ohio.

Harpoon was brewing beer in mass before Sam Adams. Their Boston brewery is just for show and events. .

 

[cheezydemon3]

They get some stuff out thete that I might never otherwise see.

The dark roasted wheat winter lager was amazing a couple of years ago.

Haven't seen dark wheat beers other than that.

(yes i am sure they are out there)