Doc recommends turning my DIPA into a super small session. Is it as easy as sliding t

[yourfriendmikem]

As much as I love having a DIPA or two the doctor said my intake is driving up my triglycerides too much. Rather than quitting drinking or having a heart attack, I'm hoping to modify my methods to reduce my final gravity so that I can keep having fun brewing without dying.

I have a go to NEIPA recipe that I use and I am wondering what the results might be if I just change the final ABV from 7.5% to 3% which would allow me to have the same amount of pints but half the amount of units of alcohol.

My plan would literally be to just change the OG slider and keep the hop additions the same as always. I'm wondering if that would work out or if there are other methods that might work better.

 

[IslandLizard]

I've never heard about the connection of beer and triglycerides. Alcohol in moderate amounts seems to help against heart and blood vessel disease. Hop oils and such must be good for something too.

I've had quite a few regular and session strength "NEIPAs," and each can be very good, at 4.5-6%. Below 4% I'm not so sure how that works out. Brew a few and keep us informed. I'm game!

 

[MrPowers]

If you keep the hop additions exactly the same it will likely end up too bitter. You'll need to back off the bittering hops a little.

 

[triethylborane]

I've never heard about the connection of beer and triglycerides. Alcohol in moderate amounts seems to help against heart and blood vessel disease. Hop oils and such must be good for something too.

I've had quite a few regular and session strength "NEIPAs," and each can be very good, at 4.5-6%. Below 4% I'm not so sure how that works out. Brew a few and keep us informed. I'm game!

Its not beer per se, it is alcohol. Rudimentarily, our body prioritizes the metabolism of alcohol over other nutrients and uses the calories from the byproducts of alcohol metabolism with the same priority. Alcohol is also calorically dense, so if you are generally in a caloric surplus (food intake - (BMR + exercise) and your body is prioritizing the metabolism of alcohol over other carbohydrate sources, protein (it is metabolized) and then fat storage in your cells, then your concentration of triglycerides could rise. Fat is stored for a reason.

Your body can process only so much alcohol at a given time, but this doesn't mean much as triglycerides (fats) are not a preferred energy source for the human body. Our brain cannot use triglycerides for energy, and fat is not the source for energy without either fasting/starving or exercising (gluconeogenesis). Again, highly simplified.

Of course, exercise is the best measure against this. Starvation is obviously out of the question. Exercise, get your body fat levels down and enjoy crushing beers.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

Sugar intake increases triglycerides as well... Seems like our body undoes the work of yeast making that ETOH back into carbs. I'm sure it's more complicated than that, and a scientist or MD could take exception with what I've written, but if it make s it easy to remember I'm okay with that.

Let's not forget that there are many studies that dispute the "alcohol is helpful" results, so moderation is likely a good thing.

 

[TLaffey]

As much as I love having a DIPA or two the doctor said my intake is driving up my triglycerides too much. Rather than quitting drinking or having a heart attack, I'm hoping to modify my methods to reduce my final gravity so that I can keep having fun brewing without dying.

I have a go to NEIPA recipe that I use and I am wondering what the results might be if I just change the final ABV from 7.5% to 3% which would allow me to have the same amount of pints but half the amount of units of alcohol.

My plan would literally be to just change the OG slider and keep the hop additions the same as always. I'm wondering if that would work out or if there are other methods that might work better.

I've been working on the same thing for a while. There are lots of discussions about "session" IPAs these days. IMO, just backing off the malt and hops levels makes a poor beer. What I am trying to do now is create, instead, a hoppy pale ale. So my approach is to start with something that already tastes good at the lower ABV level, has good mouthfeel, etc and then work on hopping it up to a level I like.

I haven't reached nirvana yet. I'm not sure I could get what I want at 4% so am currently trying to get a nice balance around 5%.

 

[Weezy]

This might be helpful...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=525104

 

[isomerization]

I wouldn't be surprised if a high FG session ale had as much carbs in it as a dry DIPA...

Best advice (imo) is to increase protein, monounsaturated and saturated fats in your diet and decrease processed carbs. That's going to help a lot more than changing what beers you drink.

EDIT: looks like the OG has more impact, at least on calories, in the beer. Not sure about carb impact though.

 

[triethylborane]

Best advice (imo) is to increase protein, monounsaturated and saturated fats in your diet and decrease processed carbs. That's going to help a lot more than changing what beers you drink.

EDIT: looks like the OG has more impact, at least on calories, in the beer. Not sure about carb impact though.

For the purposes here, where triglyceride (FAT) concentrations are high, the real issue is calories. As long as a caloric surplus is available to the body, it will not metabolize stored fat. It doesn't matter if that caloric surplus is protein, carbs or alcohol . . . or fat. The body has to get into a caloric deficit.

OG, SG, etc . . . look at alcohol content. Alcohol has 7 calories per gram, carbs 4 calories per gram and protein 4 calories per gram. Fat 9 calories per gram.

What would really make an impact is exercise. Changing diet to better choices is great too, but the body will not recompose itself without caloric deficit/exercise.

 

[triethylborane]

Sugar intake increases triglycerides as well... Seems like our body undoes the work of yeast making that ETOH back into carbs. I'm sure it's more complicated than that, and a scientist or MD could take exception with what I've written, but if it make s it easy to remember I'm okay with that.

Let's not forget that there are many studies that dispute the "alcohol is helpful" results, so moderation is likely a good thing.

Yeah, you are basically tracking it right. If your body has calories in excess of what it needs or exactly what it needs, it will not metabolize triglycerides. If you are in excess of your caloric requirements, the body will store triglycerides. Its not that ingesting sugar somehow makes more triglycerides, it just that your body has glucose for metabolization and any fat ingested that can be stored, will be stored after cellular maintenance requirements for fat are met.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

if you want a lower alcohol beer without losing flavor just make the same beer but heat the finished beer up to 175 for 15 minutes and it kills the alcohol which also knocks some calories off, you can experiment with the time they say 30 minutes kills all so 10 or 15 might be fine

 

[yourfriendmikem]

Wow thanks for all the thoughts and advice.

I exercise quite frequently already and I'm working on my diet but I'd say it's cleaner than average. I think some of it might be genetic, in which case a calorie deficit won't be the magic bullet. I don't think so at least.

Some brewer is going to make $$$ inventing a very low abv beer that actually tastes good!

I'm stopping by tires hands this week. They currently have two on tap that are 3% or below so I'll use that for inspiration. I bet a small coffee stout would be good. Or a lemon wheat with coriander. I feel like I will need to compensate for the lower malt with other flavors.

 

[jwelch1103]

It all comes down to genetics. You are either going to die young or not. Many "skinny" people die young, many "fat" people live to an old age.
Most of what MDs tell you is an educated guess at best. Today's cursed food/conduct is tomorrow's blessing, at least until the next contradicting "peer reviewed" study is published.
Live your life, love your family and friends, and treat every day like it is your last.
Only go to the table when you are hungry or thirsty, but leave absolutely nothing on that table!

 

[isomerization]

For the purposes here, where triglyceride (FAT) concentrations are high, the real issue is calories. As long as a caloric surplus is available to the body, it will not metabolize stored fat. It doesn't matter if that caloric surplus is protein, carbs or alcohol . . . or fat. The body has to get into a caloric deficit.

OG, SG, etc . . . look at alcohol content. Alcohol has 7 calories per gram, carbs 4 calories per gram and protein 4 calories per gram. Fat 9 calories per gram.

What would really make an impact is exercise. Changing diet to better choices is great too, but the body will not recompose itself without caloric deficit/exercise.

Not all calories are created equal. The OP should look into diets that promote ketosis.

 

[triethylborane]

Not all calories are created equal. The OP should look into diets that promote ketosis.

Yes, however that really only pertains to carbohydrates and fats.

You sort of hinted at a ketogenic diet in your earlier post when you mentioned protein, unsaturated fats and decreasing carbs. On strict keto, you can lose lots of weight quickly and it is sort of the blunt forced hammer tool that can drop body fat when combined with exercise that gets your body into the gluconeogenesis metabolism. The biggest issue is blood sugar levels, particularly if the individual is able to exercise. Discipline is second, keto really only works without solid exercise if it is strict keto.

I exercise quite frequently already and I'm working on my diet but I'd say it's cleaner than average. I think some of it might be genetic, in which case a calorie deficit won't be the magic bullet

Whatever your physician said should trump what is said here. There are NO magic bullets, period.

 

[madscientist451]

Rather than quitting drinking or having a heart attack, I'm hoping to modify my methods to reduce my final gravity so that I can keep having fun brewing without dying.

I have a go to NEIPA recipe that I use and I am wondering what the results might be if I just change the final ABV from 7.5% to 3% which would allow me to have the same amount of pints but half the amount of units of alcohol.

The quick answer is no. The longer answer is: A good beer, whatever the style, achieves drinkablilty though a balance of the components. High ABV beers can support a heavy dose of Hops, coffee, whiskey barrel character and other flavors that all work together. You can just change the alcohol, but the resulting beer will be out of balance and its very unlikely you will care to drink it. The good news is there are plenty of low ABV beer recipes in existence. One of my favorites is Firestone Walker's
Easy Jack. I've brewed it several times and I'm always sorry when its gone:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=474039

 

[beernutz]

https://www.promises.com/articles/alcoholism/is-alcohol-to-blame-for-high-cholesterol-triglycerides/

 

[Iseneye]

All interesting discussions but not many answers to the question. I have a very low alcohol tolerance so keep nearly all of my beers below 4%. My suggestions:

-use a lower attenuating yeast for residual body - something English.
-lower the OG by mostly reducing the base malt. Specialty malts can be reduced at a lower ratio.
-add specialty malts for body.
-reduce bittering hops but flavour and aroma can probably stay the same.

I find it is mostly trying to keep the flavour the same, reduce bitterness, and try to get the body back into the beer. Low alcohol beers can taste delicious.

One potential problem I see is whether you are prepared to replace 1 low OG beer for 1 DIPA. You might have one pint then think it's doing nothing for you and have another pint to make up for it. Then you're back to the same amount of alcohol units as your DIPA.

 

[ba-brewer]

If you believe the manufacturer's propaganda some yeasts say they have decent attenuation and will still give decent body. Denny's favorite 50 wy1450 is one such yeast and WY3711 French saison are a couple, white labs also have some yeast like too but don't recall the numbers. I have only used 1450 once and cant remember how it preformed, but I have used 3711 a few time and it does seem to leave some body even when it attenuates down close to 1.000. It is fairly clean a for belgain/saison yeast at lower temps and still attenuates pretty well, it also allows hops to come through pretty well.

Look into Belgian tables beers for more ideas on how to get some body back into low ABV beers. I recalling there are some different mash techniques that help low ABV beers from being too watery.

 

[yourfriendmikem]

All interesting discussions but not many answers to the question. I have a very low alcohol tolerance so keep nearly all of my beers below 4%. My suggestions:



-use a lower attenuating yeast for residual body - something English.

-lower the OG by mostly reducing the base malt. Specialty malts can be reduced at a lower ratio.

-add specialty malts for body.

-reduce bittering hops but flavour and aroma can probably stay the same.



I find it is mostly trying to keep the flavour the same, reduce bitterness, and try to get the body back into the beer. Low alcohol beers can taste delicious.



One potential problem I see is whether you are prepared to replace 1 low OG beer for 1 DIPA. You might have one pint then think it's doing nothing for you and have another pint to make up for it. Then you're back to the same amount of alcohol units as your DIPA.

Thank you for the insight. For me, it's not as much about the feeling of being tipsy as it is the beer(s) in hand that accompany pleasurable activities so if I can cut my alcohol in half while still drinking just as many pints I'll have met my goal.

 

[yourfriendmikem]

All interesting discussions but not many answers to the question. I have a very low alcohol tolerance so keep nearly all of my beers below 4%. My suggestions:



-use a lower attenuating yeast for residual body - something English.

-lower the OG by mostly reducing the base malt. Specialty malts can be reduced at a lower ratio.

-add specialty malts for body.

-reduce bittering hops but flavour and aroma can probably stay the same.



I find it is mostly trying to keep the flavour the same, reduce bitterness, and try to get the body back into the beer. Low alcohol beers can taste delicious.



One potential problem I see is whether you are prepared to replace 1 low OG beer for 1 DIPA. You might have one pint then think it's doing nothing for you and have another pint to make up for it. Then you're back to the same amount of alcohol units as your DIPA.

Thank you for the insight. For me, it's not as much about the feeling of being tipsy as it is the beer(s) in hand that accompany pleasurable activities so if I can cut my alcohol in half while still drinking just as many pints I'll have met my goal.

 

[canehdianman]

Fire your doctor. Elevated triglycerides are caused by high carbs not alcohol.

Start a low carb diet (ideally under 25g of carbs per day at first). Do it for a few months and get blood work done. If the numbers look better start drinking again, slowly.

You won't be able to make a beer low enough in carbs to work on a low carb diet.

 

[ba-brewer]

here is a link to a bunch of low gravity beers.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=378450

 

[z-bob]

Try taking one of your strong beers and mixing it half-n-half with seltzer (not club soda )

 

[yourfriendmikem]

Try taking one of your strong beers and mixing it half-n-half with seltzer (not club soda )

Is that really a thing you can do with ok results?

 

[Singletrack]

Is that really a thing you can do with ok results?

Sure! Take a high gravity beer and cut it with seltzer. Then, add a shot of booze to make the medicine go down.