Do your under age kids drink w/you at home?

[spearko520]

if the hooker had handlebars duct taped to her head and was carrying a plate of coke, the concierge may show concern...

i'm a terrible parent.

 

[Caucasian]

I've got wayyyyy to many pictures of my two year old and beer bottles

 

[Reno_eNVy]

I'd just like to point out to those adamant about not giving alcohol to minors: it takes over 150 minutes to completely cook alcohol out of food. Also, grape juice (as well as many others) has as much alcohol content as O'Douls (or more sometimes.)

Let's also not forget alcohols that can naturally form in certain candies (especially in altoids), bananas that have a couple brown spots (the best kind), rum raisin anything.... also a lot of liquid medicines.

 

[osagedr]

Enforcing the letter of the law is great for Communist countries. I am always amazed at the authority worship when I travel in the States (which I do often). I am proud to live in the freedom of Canada (overtaxed as we are).

KITCHENER, ONTARIO, CANADA— A Kitchener father is upset that police arrested him at his children’s’ school Wednesday, hauled him down to the station and strip-searched him, all because his four-year-old daughter drew a picture of a gun at school.

“I’m picking up my kids and then, next thing you know, I’m locked up,” Jessie Sansone, 26, said Thursday.

“I was in shock. This is completely insane. My daughter drew a gun on a piece of paper at school.”

The school principal, police and child welfare officials, however, all stand by their actions. They said they had to investigate to determine whether there was a gun in Sansone’s house that children had access to.

“From a public safety point of view, any child drawing a picture of guns and saying there’s guns in a home would warrant some further conversation with the parents and child,” said Alison Scott, executive director of Family and Children’s Services.

Waterloo Regional Police Insp. Kevin Thaler said there was a complaint from Forest Hills public school that “a firearm was in a residence and children had access to it. We had every concern, based on this information, that children were in danger.”

Their concern wasn’t based on the drawing alone, he said.

Neaveh, the child who made the drawing, also made comments about it that raised more flags.

Sansone thinks police overreacted. He didn’t find out until hours after his arrest what had actually sparked the incident.

He said he went to the school Wednesday afternoon to pick up his three children. He was summoned to the principal’s office where three police officers were waiting. They said he was being charged with possession of a firearm.

He was escorted from the school, handcuffed and put in the back of a cruiser.

At the same time, other police officers went to his home, where his wife and 15-month-old child were waiting for his return.

They made his wife come to the police station while the other three children were taken to Family and Children’s Services to be interviewed.

“Nobody was given any explanation,” said his wife, Stephanie Squires. “I didn’t know why he was being arrested.

“He had absolutely no idea what this was even about. I just kept telling them. ‘You’re making a mistake.’ ”

At the police station, Sansone talked to a lawyer who said only that he was being charged with possession of a firearm, Sansone said.

He kept asking questions. He was given a blanket and told he would appear before a judge in the morning to post bail.

“I was getting pretty scared at that point,” Sansone said. “It seemed like I was actually being charged at this point.”

He was forced to remove his clothes for a full strip search.

Several hours later, a detective apologized and said he was being released with no charges, Sansone said.

The detective told him that his four-year-old daughter had drawn a picture of a man holding a gun. When a teacher asked her who the man was, the girl replied, “That’s my daddy’s. He uses it to shoot bad guys and monsters.”

“To be honest with you, I broke down,” Sansone said. “My character got put down so much. I was actually really hurt, like it could happen that easy.

“How do you recognize a criminal from a father?’’

He said he thought he had good relations with the principal who offered him a job last year counselling students at the school.

“We’re educated,’’ he said. “I’m a certified PSW (personal support worker) and a life issues counsellor. I go into schools to try to make a difference.’’

After he was released, Sansone was asked to sign a paper authorizing a search of his home. He signed, even though he didn’t have to, he said.

“I just think they blew it out of proportion,’’ Squires said. “It was for absolutely nothing. They searched our house upside down and found nothing. They had the assumption he owned a firearm.

“The way everything happened was completely unnecessary, especially since we know the school very well. I don’t understand how they came to that conclusion from a four-year-old’s drawing.’’

Scott, of Family and Children’s Services, said the agency was obligated to investigate after getting a report from the school.

“Our community would have an expectation if comments are made about a gun in a house, we’d be obligated to investigate that to ensure everything is safe.”

If there’s a potential crime that’s been committed, the agency must call in police, she said

“In the end, it may not be substantiated. There may be a reasonable explanation for why the child drew that gun. But we have to go on what gets presented to us.

“I’m sure this was a very stressful thing for the family,” she acknowledged.

The school principal, Steve Zack, said a staff member called child welfare officials because the law requires them to report anything involving the safety or neglect of a child.

The agency chose to involve police, he said.

“Police chose to arrest Jessie here. Nobody wants something like this to happen at any time, especially not at school. But that’s out of my hands.”

Sansone says he got into some trouble with the law five years ago, and was convicted of assault and attempted burglary. But he’s put all that behind him. He never had any firearms-related charges.

As for the strip search, Thaler said it was done “for officer safety, because it’s a firearms-related incident.

“At the point in the investigation when it was determined it was not a real firearm, the individual was released unconditionally,” he said.

http://www.therecord.com/news/local...after-daughter-draws-picture-of-gun-at-school

 

[Nightbiker]

I'd just like to point out to those adamant about not giving alcohol to minors: it takes over 150 minutes to completely cook alcohol out of food. Also, grape juice (as well as many others) has as much alcohol content as O'Douls (or more sometimes.)

Let's also not forget alcohols that can naturally form in certain candies (especially in altoids), bananas that have a couple brown spots (the best kind), rum raisin anything.... also a lot of liquid medicines.

Not sure I agree with the claim on cooking ETOH out of food -that would depend on a number of factors -most notably, the amount in the food, the manner in which it was integrated in the food, and especially the temperature at which the food was being cooked (and of course, the density of the food that the alcohol was in) -in any case, you really can't make such a sweeping statement. THAT defies logic, at the very least.
There is also a big difference between a trace amount, and the amount in a nice, frosty mug. IN any case, I'm glad my parents weren't so rigid while I was growing up. Kids emulate their parents to a large degree -during their formative years. Make alcohol the 'forbidden fruit' and you all but ensure they will try it with their friends when they are able to procure it -and the treat you sneak is always going to be more special than the one that is given with permission. I'd rather they learn moderation in a controlled setting, than with a bunch of friends who are 'experimenting' or 'sneaking'. You don't learn responsibility in THAT setting. And I think most of us would agree that its the irresponsible drinkers that give our chosen libation a bad name with the 'pleasure police'.

 

[TromboneGuy]

On that firearms thing... I would consider it irresponsible parenting to NOT teach your children how to safely handle firearms. Like knowing how to work the safety, check to make sure they're unloaded, etc. at the minimum. Even if you don't want to learn to shoot them, you should know enough to be able to check one if you stumble across it.

And sorry for that being totally off topic.

 

[Nightbiker]

Wow Osage, that was a heck of an article! Mk1miata, what was that you were saying about that freedom of Canada?
Seriously?
My father has enjoyed hunting black bear in Canada for several years -he has take them with crossbow and with muzzle-loader (rifle). The last time he went, he wanted to use his S&W .44mag -now, this thing has a long barrel on it -long enough that the only reason its called a 'handgun' instead of a short carbine is because of the grip (grin -this thing bends the scales -I don't like shooting a handgun with as long a barrel as this thing) but he was not allowed because the Canadian gun laws forbid the handgun. No way he could have hidden or concealed it (not that he would have ever tried -he is about as law-abiding as they come, when it comes to firearms -and would never dream of violating the laws of a land he was visiting).
I don't want to see our taxes get to the level that yours are -and as for your presumed freedom, that article above pretty well says it all.
That having been said, there are those in power in our own country, especially in various states, who would really like to model their laws after that article. THEY are the ones I'm afraid of.

 

[drainbamage]

No kids here, but growing up in a predominantly German-Irish family, alcohol was generally present at family gatherings (though it was rarely accompanied by actual drunkenness). My family was of the mindset that if I had some exposure to alcohol at an early age, I'd be less likely to be irresponsible with it. It wasn't unusual to get a sip of my dad's beer (even if it was Old Milwaukee Light ) at an early age, or to have a small glass of wine with dinner at Christmas in my teens. As long as I wasn't driving anywhere and I wasn't getting hammered, they didn't mind. Another friend who came from a farming family would spend most of his weekends in high school helping his grandpa tend the crops and livestock, and was rewarded with a beer under the rationale of, "if you do a man's work, you can have a man's drink". I'm sure there are numerous examples to the contrary on either side, but in my experience the kids coming from the over-protective/sheltered/ultra-religious households were the ones who would get away from their parents for a while would turn very quickly into uncontrollable drunks because they had no exposure to drinking and didn't know how to approach it.

I'd just like to point out to those adamant about not giving alcohol to minors: it takes over 150 minutes to completely cook alcohol out of food. Also, grape juice (as well as many others) has as much alcohol content as O'Douls (or more sometimes.)

Let's also not forget alcohols that can naturally form in certain candies (especially in altoids), bananas that have a couple brown spots (the best kind), rum raisin anything.... also a lot of liquid medicines.

+1. NyQuil (and generic equivalents) for starters. Most mints include "sugar alcohols" in the ingredients list. Food prepared with cooking wines, etc...

Stepping off my soapbox now...

 

[Nightbiker]

On that firearms thing... I would consider it irresponsible parenting to NOT teach your children how to safely handle firearms. Like knowing how to work the safety, check to make sure they're unloaded, etc. at the minimum. Even if you don't want to learn to shoot them, you should know enough to be able to check one if you stumble across it.

And sorry for that being totally off topic.

+1

I never realized how lucky I had it growing up on a small farm out in the country down here in Florida. I took the liberties we had for granted.
-- And now, back to my beer.

 

[MikeBergan]

Both my boys are too young to start any of this yet... ages 5 and 2.. but I was raised around both guns and various alcoholic beverages; AND taught from a pretty young age how to use and deal with them both.

I feel that if you teach the correct respect and responsibility on these types of things, your kids will be better off and safer in the long run.

By letting them have access and experience with them in a controlled environment, you take away the "new" and "naughty" attractions. Kids need to learn early that guns AND alcohol are not toys or games.

 

[MalFet]

oh god...

....the thread that would not die is back!

 

[DoubleAught]

Kids...adolescents, need to be taught there's nothing wrong with enjoying alcohol, but taught that it must be respected while enjoyed.

 

[BillBeer247]

i understand the one agruement but on the other hand...you want to wait as long as possible while minds and brains are still developing

 

[savannahvan]

Coming from a Mormon family, I was brought up being told to stay far away from alcohol. Of course as a curious teen, I completely overdid it. I'm sure it would have been different had I ever been introduced to alcohol & it's effects.

 

[JoeyChopps]

Both my boys are too young to start any of this yet... ages 5 and 2.. but I was raised around both guns and various alcoholic beverages; AND taught from a pretty young age how to use and deal with them both.

I feel that if you teach the correct respect and responsibility on these types of things, your kids will be better off and safer in the long run.

By letting them have access and experience with them in a controlled environment, you take away the "new" and "naughty" attractions. Kids need to learn early that guns AND alcohol are not toys or games.

Plus 1 my little girls are the same ages and they love to watch daddy brew and taste the sweet wort of sample on brew day. I hope they respect beer the same we do one day

 

[Malstorme]

Do your under age kids drink w/you at home?

Sounds pretty irresponsible to me.... Ignore the avatar, these are not the grains you're looking for...

Mals

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

I'm with you MalFet, I wish this subject would die..... or at least get moved over to the Debate Forum.

 

[Darwin18]

Where it change topics repeatedly.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

Where it change topics repeatedly.

Of course!!

 

[DoubleAught]

Maybe you's guys spend too much time on here go brew beer!

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

Maybe you's guys spend too much time on here go brew beer!

Touché!

 

[edds5p0]

Starting around age 15, I was allowed wine at holiday dinners and I got to have beer with dad while making dinner on the grill. I also did drink at my friend's homes with parents there and keys confiscated. I am going to allow and encourage my son to enjoy beer and hopefully have some self-control before he is on his own in the world.

 

[BlackRock]

Growing up my parents never drank much of any beer but they did like their wine. I helped my dad build a wine closet and bottle racks along with a number other wine hobby related things. I also had one side of the family that never seemed to drink much of anything and the other that drank to excess at holiday gatherings so I remember as a little kid seeing a big difference between the two. I do remember having sips of wine and a small glass now and again. Sometimes my dad would give me a bit and explain something about it but I never remember having it in any sort of quantity though I also don't remember it ever being something that was taboo. In the end I feel like I chose myself not to drink in high school or really until I was 21 but I'm not sure if it was my parents or seeing some of my family drink too much. It also could have simply been the fact it never seemed like anything that exciting. Wine was boring and didn't taste very good. It was something my parents "aka - old people" did and I just never thought much about it.

So now fast forward a bunch of years and I've got my own kids at 1 and 3. My daughter is simply too little but my son has asked for beer to which I've poured a sip and said sure... Oh, it was funny to see the look on his face after trying some IIPA I had that evening. He's never asked again, but I think I'll try not to make it much of an issue if I can. We will probably brew and do beer related hobby stuff together and over time he will probably learn as much about beer growing up as I did about wine. My hope is that when they are old enough they will have been introduced to the concept in an environment that was responsible with it and will choose to do the same. Seems to me the kids I remember growing up with who drank in excess early in life were people like the "Minister's son", the "Principle's daughter" or the local "drunks" kid. You know what I mean. Basically the kids who's parents were either overly strict against alcohol or those who had parents that abused it.

I think all I can do is set a good example and see what happens.

 

[Lumpy16]

Grumpy I actually cite for going five over. If its a residential and the posted speed limit is 25, if there is school in session it is 15. Going 5 over in that case results in a 55.00 cite. Same for construction zones, fines are doubled, so 5 over in a construction zone is usually automatically 150.00 cite. The chief and the city manager get quite upset if we let things like that go being that the state is broke.

With that being said, the military taught me some very important things, and one was I am not a lawyer. My job is to enforce the law as was written to the letter. So long as you go by the book, you can't go wrong. I don't enforce the spirit of the law, but rather the letter. I have seen a lot of people turned from NCOs into airmen, and berets disappear because of underage drinking, DUI, and providing to a minor. I use the same integrity and standards I learned in SF and apply them to the civilian world. The fact that I'm still reserve still holds me to the standards my wing commander set as well as core values. Alcohol offenses have a zero tolerance policy, and will result in article 15 in the least. This includes providing a "sip" to a minor.

While each state may allow parents to be irresponsible, the federal government says the drinking age is 21. No state law supersedes federal law.

If my chief learned I was supplying alcohol to a minor, in the very least it would be days on the beach, an IA opened, and probably my patches stripped with my career in law enforcement over.

Glad I'm from Canada, and feel that most of the cops here aren't on quite as big of a power trip. If what gets you wet is ticketing a dad for giving his 20 year old son a beer, that's a joke. Not to mention the law makes no sense. You can drive, and go to war but dont you dare have a beer or you get a ticket. I don't need to use my self as an example because like everyone else I started drinking before the legal age and it hasn't messed me up. Get off your power trip super cop.

 

[DoubleAught]

Looks like it was about to die so thought I'd put it back on the front page

 

[Airborneguy]

That guy isn't even a real cop. He mentioned being "SF" too much in his posts. "SF" meaning "Security Forces", not Special Forces. Being from Canada doesn't save you from cops like this, there's very few here also who act like this guy says he acts.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

I think all I can do is set a good example and see what happens.

I think that's kinda the long and short of this whole thing. :slaps himself for not just trolling this thread at this point: Our boys are older now, 16 and 13, so it's a whole 'nother ( ) ballgame. When they were younger, we could say that beer or wine were for "mommies and daddies" or "grown up drinks" and laugh at the rare occasion that they asked for a sip, only to pucker in disgust when we obliged. Now that they're older, especially with the oversized 16 year old (~6'2" 230), we have to be more real with them.
I really think it's all about perception. The kid's perception. Like someone else pointed out, if you play ostrich and pretend that realities don't happen, your children are going to have no clue how to deal with reality when it inevitably does. That applies to alcohol, drugs, sex, etc. Conversely, if you over consume with no regard for the dangers of alcohol abuse, along with letting your children run the show at home, you're going to have a whole 'nother (yes! twice in one rant!) set of issues to deal with.
Like with most things in life, brewing included, raising children (properly) is about balance.

 

[jbaysurfer]

On that firearms thing... I would consider it irresponsible parenting to NOT teach your children how to safely handle firearms. Like knowing how to work the safety, check to make sure they're unloaded, etc. at the minimum. Even if you don't want to learn to shoot them, you should know enough to be able to check one if you stumble across it.

And sorry for that being totally off topic.

In mine and my wife's collective 76 years on this planet, neither one of us has ever "stumbled across" a firearm, nor known anyone who has. I have never been to Kansas, so maybe that's a cultural thing, but I firmly believe in the 2nd amendment, I have handled and fired firearms, but I'd move if I lived in an environment where my child might accidentally stumble across a firearm.

Regarding my child and beer: My daughter loves to taste sips of daddy's new beer as they come out. She is 8 and one time I poured her about 1oz in a glass, and she looked at me and said: "but this is small enough so that it's safe for a child to drink right dad?". She knows that alcohol is something her mom and I enjoy in moderation, and she's never seen either of us visibly drunk.

I OTOH was raised in a strict Southern Baptist family and my mother claimed to have never had a drop of alcohol across her lips. I took every opportunity away from home to binge as much as I could without getting caught. I outgrew my desire to binge (more like I got tired of hangovers) but I often wonder if my relationship with alcohol during my young adult days 18-23 would've been different if I hadn't lived in a home where alcohol use was binary.

I'm not sure one way is right or the other is wrong, but I believe I'll be the one to teach my daughter about alcohol, and not her friends.

 

[sweed]

In mine and my wife's collective 76 years on this planet, neither one of us has ever "stumbled across" a firearm, nor known anyone who has. I have never been to Kansas, so maybe that's a cultural thing, but I firmly believe in the 2nd amendment, I have handled and fired firearms, but I'd move if I lived in an environment where my child might accidentally stumble across a firearm.

Regarding my child and beer: My daughter loves to taste sips of daddy's new beer as they come out. She is 8 and one time I poured her about 1oz in a glass, and she looked at me and said: "but this is small enough so that it's safe for a child to drink right dad?". She knows that alcohol is something her mom and I enjoy in moderation, and she's never seen either of us visibly drunk.

I OTOH was raised in a strict Southern Baptist family and my mother claimed to have never had a drop of alcohol across her lips. I took every opportunity away from home to binge as much as I could without getting caught. I outgrew my desire to binge (more like I got tired of hangovers) but I often wonder if my relationship with alcohol during my young adult days 18-23 would've been different if I hadn't lived in a home where alcohol use was binary.

I'm not sure one way is right or the other is wrong, but I believe I'll be the one to teach my daughter about alcohol, and not her friends.

It's probably because you live in CA about the gun thing, the laws there are as bad as the ones in Mass, that's why I moved to NH, lol
The only time I came across a gun in my younger years was at a christian camp in NH in 4-5th grade! lol Now it's everyday, and you become very comfortable with them very fast.

Anyways... I never was allowed a sip, and my parents didn't drink at all when we were growing up, only the occasional beer my dad had (Milller Light). I would smell it and thought it was gross, I still can smell that stank. I always said when I was young, "I won't drink except for every once in a while, like Dad." My mom remembers me saying that.

Fast forward to College... I was free! lol. Did the partys every weekend, now at 29, I have the occasional few beers on the weekend, and maybe 1 or 2 during the week with some friends. No more parties, going out, except a few times a year. You have your fun for a little while, then you grow up and work. I am not married and therefore no kids, yet. Once married and have kids I'll do the same as jbaysurfer, and others, to introduce it at a young age, and teach responsibility.

BTW, my parents drink occasionally now, and they love my beer

Now can someone find me a beutiful woman who wants to make some babies???

 

[neosapien]

My job is to enforce the law as was written to the letter. So long as you go by the book, you can't go wrong. I don't enforce the spirit of the law, but rather the letter.

It must be nice and simple to live in such a myopic field of view.