At EB, we've done initial testing of Brewtan B. You can find it at experimentalbrew.com. We have a test underway of it's efficacy in long term aging. Hopefully we'll present the results of that before too long.
Do "professional" brewers consider brulosophy to be a load of bs?
- Thread starter BrewVerymore
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk:
- Status
Please understand--this wasn't an indictment of Marshall. Rather, there have been one or two individuals in this thread who have championed the idea that, apparently, those things don't matter. They do.
I actually think the experiments Marshall and his cohorts do are pretty well done. What I wish we had was a better indication of who the people are who are testing, but even more than that, a better way of controlling what people are eating and drinking prior to the testing. My gut tells me the lack of differences we see in many brulosophy experiments is related to this. BUT, it would be better if someone (like me, maybe) could do some experiments which are as well-controlled as the brulosophy ones are, and then put some effort into the measurement side.
I really want to do that. Maybe it doesn't matter, but either way, it's an issue that, IMO, is still outstanding. I'd have people show up to testing not having drunk any beer; I'd have water to cleanse palates, and I might even try to have tasters do successive tests to ensure they're able to discern the difference.
The brulosophy methodology has improved over time, and I'm hoping that this becomes the next area of improvement. If I could find a way to brew two comparable batches I'd try to do that, but I don't have the dual system I need. All I can do is brew sequentially, and maybe that would be enough.
**************
Morrey and I have been doing some initial testing of Brewtan-B. We think we see something there, but it might be wishful thinking. I'm dying to do two IPA batches, everything the same except BtB, and see what impact there is on initial flavor as well as long-term stability of flavor and aroma.
I've got two ferm chambers so I could start them separately, have starters that are staggered by four hours, and so on. I need to find someone local to help me do this and maintain fidelity to consistent brewing techniques. Or maybe I can just plot it out, but an assistant would help immensely.
I have someone in mind.
why don't you brew a 10 gal batch and split it? Then the beer would be exactly the same until it went into the fermenter. :rockin:
I'm using Denny's suggestion as to how to use Brewtan-B. It requires including it in the mash, so splitting the batch wouldn't work.
I also don't have the capacity to do a 10-gallon batch. I've got a 10-gallon Spike. Maybe I'll put a 15- or 20-gallon kettle on my Christmas list.
I'm using Denny's suggestion as to how to use Brewtan-B. It requires including it in the mash, so splitting the batch wouldn't work.
I also don't have the capacity to do a 10-gallon batch. I've got a 10-gallon Spike. Maybe I'll put a 15- or 20-gallon kettle on my Christmas list.
Sorry if this is a lame questions, but what is Brewtan-B?
![Craft A Brew - Safale S-04 Dry Yeast - Fermentis - English Ale Dry Yeast - For English and American Ales and Hard Apple Ciders - Ingredients for Home Brewing - Beer Making Supplies - [1 Pack]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41fVGNh6JfL._SL500_.jpg)
How long are you aging it for? Long term to me sounds like years (14% barley wine or something like that).
Sorry if this is a lame questions, but what is Brewtan-B?
From Wyeast: Brewtan B (formerly called Tanal B) is a 100% natural, high molecular weight tannic acid extracted from renewable plant materials specifically for the brewing industry. Incorporating Brewtan B into your process will improve the shelf life and enhance the flavor and colloidal stability of your beer.
The gallotannins in Brewtan B react with wort proteins through adsorption and precipitation - the Brewtan B/protein complex is left in the spent grains when Brewtan B is added to the mash, or removed in the whirlpool when it is added to the boiler.
It is highly effective at coagulating and flocculating proline and thiol containing proteins, but does not interact with foam-positive proteins. This in turn inhibits downstream lipid and protein oxidation, improving flavor stability and shelf life.
How long are you aging it for? Long term to me sounds like years (14% barley wine or something like that).
There were 8 different Brewers, all with their own recipe. One with a Citra Wheat Pale Ale compared with and without Brewtan after 4 months. If I was buying that beer in the store, I would look for it to be 3 months or fresher so that is a significant age for a light, hoppy beer.
How long are you aging it for? Long term to me sounds like years (14% barley wine or something like that).
IIRC, somewhere in the 3-6 month range.
Joe Formanek found a year old cream ale he'd used it on and entered it in NHC. Scored in excess of 40.
Thanks for the info. Now I understand, with the aging thing Bartan B stabilizes/protects the more delicate of the hop aroma/flavor compounds from oxidization. Is that correct? 
Thanks for the info. Now I understand, with the aging thing Bartan B stabilizes/protects the more delicate of the hop aroma/flavor compounds from oxidization. Is that correct?
That's the hope and prayer.
MaryB
Well-Known Member
So extracting tannin while sparging is bad but adding Brewtan B(tannin) is good?????
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2017
- Messages
- 266
- Reaction score
- 143
Depends on the tannin. Tannin is an umbrella term and some specific tannins are desirable depending on the type of beer being brewed. Aging beer in a wood barrel or on wood chips, you're getting tannins. Smoking malts to impart a smoky flavoring to beer, you're getting tannins.
Brewtan B is also heavier than most tannins so it settles out fast.
Thanks for the info. Now I understand, with the aging thing Bartan B stabilizes/protects the more delicate of the hop aroma/flavor compounds from oxidization. Is that correct?
Yes, and malt flavor/aroma
5312santacruz
New Member
Some are happy to share. As I was enjoying a glass of their Riot Punch last winter, guys at Alvarado Street Brewery (Monterey, CA) told me how they set fermentation temp to avoid Saison stall. I went home, gave it a try with WLP565, and the got a gravity drop to 1.002 in just 5 days.
I'm quite pleased to have a repeatable method.
Silver_Is_Money
Larry Sayre, Developer of 'Mash Made Easy'
Where are you guys/gals purchasing your Brewtan B? I just online searched the three LHBS's that are within 45 minutes of me, and came up with zilch.
Airmail from Australia. Exchange rate and shipping shockingly inexpensive.
Ibrew.com.au
MSK_Chess
enthusiastic learner
I don't use it, i use polyclar730 plus, its a PVPP and a silica gel and appears to me to do the same thing.
It's just about to hit the homebrew market. Brewcraft is a homebrew wholesaler. If your shop does biz with Brewcraft, they can order it through them.
Polyclar is very different. It is only a clarifier. Brewtan B also interferes with oxidative reactions to give your beer a longer life.
Just finished brewing my Darth Lager with Brewtan-B. Now the hard part--waiting.
Brewed a Cal Common w/ it, now I'm in the mode of seeing if it preserves the flavor. Had an earlier batch I'd bottled; a buddy and I did a blind taste test between them. The newer batch with BtB was tastier; now to see if it holds over time.
BTW, I had done the Australia thing--ordered 8 packets and with shipping they ended up costing less than $10 each. I sold some on here for what I paid. Shipping was, IIRC, $15. Yeah, $15.
If anyone wants some, could do a "group buy" with them. I believe there's now someplace else in the US that sells it, a pound for something like $28. Can't recall offhand where that is. If I find it I'll post it.
Brewed a Cal Common w/ it, now I'm in the mode of seeing if it preserves the flavor. Had an earlier batch I'd bottled; a buddy and I did a blind taste test between them. The newer batch with BtB was tastier; now to see if it holds over time.
BTW, I had done the Australia thing--ordered 8 packets and with shipping they ended up costing less than $10 each. I sold some on here for what I paid. Shipping was, IIRC, $15. Yeah, $15.
If anyone wants some, could do a "group buy" with them. I believe there's now someplace else in the US that sells it, a pound for something like $28. Can't recall offhand where that is. If I find it I'll post it.
MSK_Chess
enthusiastic learner
Sigh only a clarifier? I don't think so mate, it has a PVPP which absorbs the oxidizable and polymerizable fraction of the phenolic and a silica gel which traps proteins. Polyclar730+ a PVPP and a silica gel.
http://www.rjoenology.com/ft_en/Specific products/FT_SOF_PVPP_EN.pdf
Thanks for the correction.
MSK_Chess
enthusiastic learner
5312santacruz
New Member
Interesting coincidence. After reading that very article, I tried the open fermentation thing, got frustrated and asked the Alvarado Street guy for advice. What works for me is:
1.) Big yeast starter - perhaps over-pitching a bit.
2.) 45 second blast of o2 through a stone (into 5gal)
3.) steady fermentation temp at 74F, with an airlock
Not that it matters, but I like to put my Belgians into 750ml "cork & cage" bottles and bottle condition to 4.5 volumes. I give it a little more "neutral" yeast with the sugar at bottling.
lol now I feel like like Nurse Ratched! Its all good
Who's Nurse Ratchet? Just kidding, but that did date you a bit.
- Status
