DIY glycol chilled plastic conical fermenters

[TrickyDick]

Yeah, that is the plan. Was only supposed to be a single ferrule welded to the lid, but guy cut hole too big, and had to use a second ferrule without resorting to scrapping the lids, then weld a second ferrule to the first.

The CIP ball I'm using will work without needing another ferrule inside the lid. It's a cover plate with a npt fitting on each side and the CIP ball is threaded. This was so I can adjust it with pipe fittings to rest lower or higher in the conicals if necessary.

TD.

 

[TrickyDick]

Found o-rings. 4 shipped for $33. Ended up with epdm -462 which should be a perfect fit. Now I'll.just need the braces and some hardware and I'm.good to go.

 

[boat_eggs]

im just putting the finishing touches on my first fermentor and was wondering if anyone here remembered the trick of using orings in a compression fittings on the cooling loop?

 

[jddevinn]

im just putting the finishing touches on my first fermentor and was wondering if anyone here remembered the trick of using orings in a compression fittings on the cooling loop?

What "trick" is that? I've seen replacing the larger ferral with O'rings when using SS compression fittings on copper pipe..... but at that point why use a compression fitting instead of just soldering on a NPT connection.

 

[TrickyDick]

What "trick" is that? I've seen replacing the larger ferral with O'rings when using SS compression fittings on copper pipe..... but at that point why use a compression fitting instead of just soldering on a NPT connection.

I don't think that the OP plans had any such tricks or even O-rings in the cooling circuit.

There was in the dip tube though.

I'm getting ready to post some pictures of my modified lid setup soon. I think I might need to do a little router work on the MDPE tanks to keep the O-rings seated. I'm nervous as I've never used a router before.

TD

 

[boat_eggs]

I googled a little harder and found it. 2 o-rings in place of the ferrules. I want to go this route as I have read of some people having their compression fittings pop off when they clean and cannot get a good seal after. Ill take a picture of it later

 

[TrickyDick]

Which compression fittings are you talking about???

I am not understanding. The only compression fittings in the OP plans are the 1/2" tube to 1/2" NPT used on the SS coils. I've not seen any posts about the compression fittings popping off using the Brewer's Hardware supplied fitting.

The dip tube is not the cooling circuit and yes, that one DOES use the double O-ring setup. However, that needs to be disassembled along with the ball valve after every use to ensure it is clean, because it has threads and the "compression" nut area, which can harbor "gunk" from previous batch and act as a nidus for infection/contamination. The seal is irrelevant here mostly. I am contemplating just deleting the "arm" since it cannot be easily rotated, and really, you won't lose that much beer. Seems to be simpler to dump main valve until you clear most of yeast, and then rack from side port. I think in my initial measurements, I had between 1L - 1.2L of deadspace below the port hole with NO racking arm.

 

[jddevinn]

I googled a little harder and found it. 2 o-rings in place of the ferrules. I want to go this route as I have read of some people having their compression fittings pop off when they clean and cannot get a good seal after. Ill take a picture of it later

If the ferrules pop on the cooling coil it is because it was removed cold and heated. The expanding glycol caused internal pressure. Best to just drain a little glycol.

Tricky, makes since I didn't use the dip tube section of this so skipped that entirely.

 

[boat_eggs]

I guess I should backup and explain that the original design inspired me but I went in a different direction, stainless. There is so much information in this thread about building a conical setup. I plan on starting a build thread soon as mine is about to go online.

I just figured that others might use the oring rather than ferrule idea on the cooling coils for the concern I stated. I already have a pressure relief idea but I want to make sure my concept is sound before I use more permanent ferrules

 

[TrickyDick]

I'd like to see photos and also would like to see your solution for avoiding the pressurized coil problem.

TD

 

[boat_eggs]

This is my cooling coil welded into the triclover with the blowoff tube also welded in. I read that you can replace the ferrules with two 010 orings on the stainless coil and it will still have a good seal but in the case that I forget to attach my pressure relief it will only slip rather than damage the coil posts, since I welded everything and have no repair plan.

The hydraulic coupling has a compression fitting on one end and a push-to-disconnect fitting on the other. I am going to use 3/8" poly hose for my glycol line going form the distribution manifold to the coils. When I clean I plan on attaching another hydraulic fitting to one of the ends of the cooling coil and that fitting will have poly attached to it to act as a pressure relief reservoir. Not sure how functional this will be when/if I hand clean but Im hoping that my CIP idea will work out and the relief idea will work.

 

[jddevinn]

I'd like to see photos and also would like to see your solution for avoiding the pressurized coil problem.

TD

I have an extra set of quick disconnects, as I haven't built my 3rd conical yet, to drain my coil I just hook up the "hose" side of the disconnects that have nothing connected. Drain into a beaker and add it back to the reservoir.

I thought about adding a tee with ball valve on the bottom QD for a drain but haven't needed to.

 

[TrickyDick]

Well.

my saga with the original design has come to an end.

I came up with some stainless lids with 3" TC ferrules welded on (Had to use two inverted due to miscommunication with the guy who cut the holes in the centers for me and made them too large). Had another friend TIG weld the ferrules together and onto some Stainless Steel "hubcaps" I purchased on eBay which fit perfectly.

After cutting the original lids and their receptacles from the plastic conicals, I fitted some o-ring seals into the remaining 3/4"-1" of the flat plastic part of the conicals. The "lids" have a small lip on the rim to retain the o-ring. Keeping them from slipping inwards was a problem so I manually cut grooves with a router bit on a spiral saw. These aren't the best but seems to function as intended. Read on...

Then I attached side bars and an overriding cross bar above the conical lids. I then drilled the cross bar and used threaded rod and nuts to apply downforce to attempt to seal the lids. However, the seals still do not seem to function at sealing the conicals. I am wondering if it is possible to fix this. I am getting tired of fiddling with these.

Also, for some odd reason, one of the ports for the dip tub has become loosened, and is damn near impossible to tighten and leaks like crazy, though I don't recall ever loosening...

Also, the dip tube and racking valve need to disassembled and sanitized between each batch. I think I've probably run about 3 batches of beer through each of the conicals, possibly less since I don't keep good records. I hadn't cleaned them out until just recently and were full of funky junk.

Also two of three sets of the galvanized steel Hydraulic fittings have rusted or the springs have failed.

I have discovered an EASY way to purge the coolant coils/circuit of glycol by the way if anyone is interested. I plan to implement this on my rig soon.

What's next? Well I think I need to remove the plastic conicals and purchase stainless conicals. I will salvage the fittings and attempt to sell what I can.

For stainless steel replacement conicals I have three options:

Stout has a nice CIP capable conical with a thermowell which will fit my cart. For cooling, I would need to use 1.5" discharge hose ($10 ea) and fashion fittings for running the coolant and for physically connecting to the conicals. These are by far the cheapest option. ($453 I believe).

SS Brewtech "Brewmaster Edition Chronical" has a coolant enabled feature that will work with some fitting adaptions for the coolant circuit. More costly and non-CIP however. CIP is very important to me.

Brewers Hardware has jacketed 15g conical. I am favoring this despite its price tag. The amount of time I have invested into this project far exceeds any monetary expenditures, partly justifying getting the rolls-royce conical.

I need to make some measurements of all three options and see which will work the best for me.

The cooling portion of the build is really a good walkthrough for a DIY glycol cooling solution and the power it has to cool your beer is impressive.

I am going to retain the system and abandon the plastic conicals in favor of a better conical that is CIP and won't leak air, beer, or coolant.

TD

 

[ateene]

I have discovered an EASY way to purge the coolant coils/circuit of glycol by the way if anyone is interested. I plan to implement this on my rig soon.
TD

Ok, I'l bite, what is the EASY way to purge the coolant coils?

 

[TrickyDick]

Use CO2 with a TEE inline with the pump output line and 2 ball valves. Using BCS open the valve on the coil you want to purge, close ball valve (between Tee and pump), Connect CO2 (I use a TC fitting) to the Tee, turn on CO2, open ball valve between CO2 and tee. Works pretty well.

TD

 

[jddevinn]

Tricky, the Brewers Hardware conical looks awesome.... I went with SS Brew due to the large price difference though! If I was 100% that I wasn't going to upsize equipment at some point (I'm pretty sure I will ) then I may have sprung for the Brewers Hardware.

To "CIP" the SS Brew I pull the coiling coil out, clean it with the spray nozzle in the sink then reinstall it "backwards" to run the CIP cycle. I've ended up pulling all the valves off for inspection every time but could get away not doing so.

 

[TrickyDick]

Thanks for sharing.

I bit the bullet. Ordered one jacketed brewers hardware 15g conical yesterday. No doubt will need to do some adaptations on my all in one fermentation cart. The 18.5" diameter will be a perfect fit. Might need some padding on the cutouts.

I'm still subscribed here and happy to chime in with any questions about this thread. I can say that I successfully used the plastic conicals but in my opinion is not a viable long term solution without stainless. The fittings as originally described cost about $1000 plus about $300 for three conicals due to the shipping. The better option is one of the three stainless options I mentioned previously. Could also run a cool zone jacket around a Blichmann or other existing fermenter if you have one. I might attempt this until I can save for additional jacketed fermenters.

 

[jddevinn]

Nice! Let me know how you like it after using for a while. When I do size up there are more options for jacketed conicals but the Brewers Hardware is still a viable option!

 

[TrickyDick]

Will do.

In the meantime, I'm going to try to use some externally wrapped copper tubing around my blichman with modification to the legs to permit wrapping. Wrapped it tonight with help from my son. 3/8 OD x 50' (1/4" ID) copper tubing works nicely. The "U" channel Stainless legs need to be notched to continue to use them and the Blichmann design uses 6 threaded studs to mount to the legs, and I do not know how many of the studs are needed to bear the full weight or else I'd fabricate some other way to mount to my cart. Got some fittings to sweat on to connect to glycol setup. got some 10 ft heavy duty zip ties at McMaster to tighten the tubing down. Planning to use some strips of cardboard vertically and a few of the ties to tighten the tubing, they come 5 to a pack. Once tightened going to re-cycle the neoprene insulation. Not sure the best way to tighten the conical part of the tubing, but not as much of the tubing is wrapped there. The notched legs should also help keep tight to the conical sidewall and the insulation should help transfer the energy to the interior (This is essentially how a fridge works after all). Bottom line is that I think it'll be a good fit in my overall plan without breaking the bank and give me a second controlled conical in addition to the jacketed one that not been delivered yet. I'll take some photos of the project and probably post to a different thread.

TD

 

[WPStrassburg]

Here's my progress so far. Condenser set was piped to the plate heat exchanger this weekend and we mocked up the pumps into enclosures at the bottom of the stand. We have most of the controls and plumbing, just have to put it all together.

Does anyone have v-twins off of the tubing bender that he made by chance? I have 100' of 1/2" stainless tubing for the three cooling coils and I want to make the tubing roller to do them up nice.

 

[TrickyDick]

Do you have all the fittings you're going to need for those conicals already?
How are you going to seal the lids?
Have you drilled any holes in them yet?

I'm itching to unload some old parts if you can't tell it!
TD

 

[WPStrassburg]

Thanks but, I've got a small warehouse of parts so I think I'm good with the exception of ss compression bulkheads to go through my lids and attach to the cooling coil.

 

[TrickyDick]

Might have some weld less bulkheads with 1/2" fittings. Might accept compression ferrule. Will check tonight after work.

By the way I can't see the pics...

Td

 

[TrickyDick]

This what you need??

 

[J311gonzo]

Does anyone have a diagram to build the actual controller for the BCS?

 

[TrickyDick]

Yes. I have. What are you needing specifically?
TD

 

[J311gonzo]

I'm trying to find a wiring diagram to build a BCS controller to monitor and chill 6 plastic conicals using the chiller and method referenced in this thread. It looks like the OP repurposed an existing controller. Anything you have will be mucho appreciated!!!

 

[TrickyDick]

The plans and design of the OP in this thread included a standard BCS 460 controller, and an outboard "driver" board, which I think is no longer commercially available, but fret not as I think that other mini relay boards would probably be able to accomplish the same thing.

If you search through the thread, there is another member who is/was hosting the scanned in printouts of the majority of the original plans which I printed out. You will be able to see the full controller build in the scans.

In a nutshell, you need temp probes on for bcs, for up to three conicals, and another for the glycol and use the bcs to set the temp of the glycol and cycle the pump and AC unit on or off, and also to open and close valves along the glycol circuit that go to cool each conical. There are probably other, simpler ways of doing this if you only have one fermentor.

TD.

 

[jddevinn]

I'm trying to find a wiring diagram to build a BCS controller to monitor and chill 6 plastic conicals using the chiller and method referenced in this thread. It looks like the OP repurposed an existing controller. Anything you have will be mucho appreciated!!!

Hosted here is a preliminary drawing (that I have yet to finish working on to knock it from preliminary) for a 4 unit system. Titles for each PDF page are in the bookmarks.

Let me know if you need any help!

 

[J311gonzo]

Jddevin thank you for the diagram... is there any chance you have a parts list??? I'm not sure what 2 of the items are.