Dishwasher Pumps

[h2odenman]

I have been doing a lot of reading on pumps and I keep coming across people (small numbers) using dishwasher pumps for their breweries. Is there a final verdict on using one of these pumps in place of a March? Any experience using them as well as recommendations on what to buy,new used?

 

[lincoln]

the two i have has the mispleasure of dealing with i would not want in my setup for two reasons:

1: shaft seal, it would have to be limited to the pre boil of things.

2: if #1 is ok with you then you still have to power it. and at that point i would just get a drill driven pump.

I cant remember if i saw it here or on the net but some where in my travels i saw a page of a guy who make a brew stand on a ladder. he had info about a drill mounted pump he used and how to clean it up to make it work.

to me its not worth it. but your miage may vary. sorry a little

 

[DrKarma]

Often you have (at least in european dish washers) two different pumps in a dish washer. One for in-water which is a high pressure pump, and one waste pump (out-pump) which has lower pressure.

I wouldn't use the high pressure pump in a brew system because it 1. expects to have pressure already on the in-let and 2. it's a high pressure pump - which in my opinion doesn't belong in a brewing system.

The waste pumps however are gravity fed, so they are better to use for brewing. I have not used one myself but heard/read about quite a few people that use them.
If I were to use one I would go for a new one, just because knowing all the crap that has gone through it is not very appealing.

So then you (I) would count on it, a new dishwasher pump is cheaper than a march pump (I assume). But if you would look at circulation pumps instead, I guess you can find cheaper used ones with a SS housing.

These pumps are normally used in water/heating installations.
The one I use looks like this

 

[lincoln]

didn't think of the hot water circulation pump. Brilliant!

 

[DrKarma]

Just remember that when restricting a circulation pump you always do it on the out-side of the pump and never on the in-side.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

Those Grundfos pumps are workhorses. You can get them in stainless with a 230* F temp rating but it's about 2x a March IIRC. We use a few at work for circulating ~170* F DM water and they just keep chugging along

 

[DrKarma]

Those Grundfos pumps are workhorses. You can get them in stainless with a 230* F temp rating but it's about 2x a March IIRC. We use a few at work for circulating ~170* F DM water and they just keep chugging along

Workhorses..indeed, great quality.
Here in a lot of people are getting municipal heating/remote heating so they are replacing their old heating systems with just two pipes from the street. So you can get used Grundfos pumps very cheap...like $10-30

 

[szac]

I just picked up a couple of dishwasher drain pumps. Anyone know what the plastic is made of on these? It's one of these: eBay link to pump

I assume since it's in a dishwasher it can't be leaching bad fumes on your dishes.

 

[HarkinBanks]

I was looking at those too, let us know how it works out. Sorry, not sure about the plastic.

 

[Islandboy85]

I just picked up a couple of dishwasher drain pumps. Anyone know what the plastic is made of on these? It's one of these: eBay link to pump

I assume since it's in a dishwasher it can't be leaching bad fumes on your dishes.

Any problems with the pumps so far? I'm thinking about buying a little giant, but the dishwasher pumps sure are cheaper.

 

[RegionalChaos]

I cant remember if i saw it here or on the net but some where in my travels i saw a page of a guy who make a brew stand on a ladder. he had info about a drill mounted pump he used and how to clean it up to make it work.

That site has been referenced from here a few times. I ended up saving the link to the pump.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200384668_200384668

The guys talked about taking it apart and cleaning out the grease it was oiled with I think.

 

[nosmo]

I got a pair of these stainless steel recirc pumps at my job. I tried to look them up online, but most places online say 200ish for them. I think I paid 78$ something from the supply house. Taco 007-SF5. When I finally get my keggle all together I will let you know how they did.

 

[szac]

Any problems with the pumps so far? I'm thinking about buying a little giant, but the dishwasher pumps sure are cheaper.

I've used dishwasher drain pumps on six brews so far and all is well. Here's a video with them in action:
http://junktrunk.com/2010/12/31/2010-holiday-homebrews/ it's the 'Porter vorlauf' video at the end of the post.

 

[cfsb78]

szac:

That's pretty sweet. Do you know the model of the pumps you are using? Can you post more details about your setup? I am looking to do something similar!

 

[szac]

szac:

That's pretty sweet. Do you know the model of the pumps you are using? Can you post more details about your setup? I am looking to do something similar!

Thanks, cfsb78. I posted a parts list, including links to the pumps here: http://junktrunk.com/2010/07/30/junktrunk-brewery-automation/

*Note: when previewing this post I noticed that HBT is now hijacking external links and presenting you with a choice to go to their new website(the giant, bold link) or to continue to the link you were actually trying to access. Maybe I'm seeing that because I'm not a premium member? Seems phishy.

 

[cfsb78]

Thanks szac. Any problems with these pumps? I found two and I will probably order them. This will be my first set up with pumps. Any suggestions/advice on using them?

Thanks in advance!

 

[szac]

One of pumps overheated and shut off once after I ran it continuously for 30 min. straight with a really crappy immersion chiller. Other than that they've run fine for transferring strike water, vorlauf, and filling the kettle. I'm running a two vessel system and am mashing with all my water at once with no-sparge. The pumps are not self priming, so I do leave some in the kettle to get the vorlauf started.

I've got them wired up with an extension cord I built from Home Depot parts rated for like 20 amps. Those are plugged in to panel that made containing 4 receptacles that are protected under one gfci receptacle. Those 4 are plugged in to solid state relays that are switched by the microcontroller that's running the HABS software. The other two slots are for the stir motor and the 110v heating element.

To mount the pumps, I made a couple of simple metal brackets out of sheet metal that I got from home depot. I posted a pattern for them on my site (link in above post).

Since the pumps are for dishwashers, I never run anything hotter than strike temps (160 - 170) through the them. After the boil I either, chill and run off to the primary, run off to the cube, or soon through my new dudadiesal plate chiller all via gravity. Keep us posted on your progress. $20 a pump sure is a cheap way to simplify the brewing day!

 

[cfsb78]

Both my pumps came in today. Excited to start setting them up this weekend. I am a bit concerned with the electric. You said you just cut an extension cord and wired it to a receptacle? I guess I am a bit confused as to how you "plugged in" the dishwasher pump. The pump I bought is here http://www.repairclinic.com/PartDetail/Pump-Component/1475296

As you can see the "plugin" teeth won't line up with a standard receptacle. I could hard wire them in but that seems dangerous and would leave the possibility of exposed wires. Is there some sort of adapter I can purchase? Also, what do you use for hoses?

Thanks!

 

[szac]

I built the extension cords with parts from Home Depot. For the first test, I simply cut up a computer power supply cable and spliced it to the pump. Yes, you're going to want wrap it up good in electrical tape. I googled for which leads were which. Please don't electrocute yourself.

I went through a few iterations for the hoses. For the outlet I finally settled on a piece of 1" ID hose to go on as a coupler, then a 1" OD hose for inner. Inside that went a 3/4" hose barb for the 1/2" silicone. The outlet hoses just got the 1" OD hose with the barb.

I'll try to get a sketch or some pics up here.

Edit: Added sketch

 

[Jawbox0]

Thanks! I've been considering testing out a form of recirculation on my Brew in a Bag mashes. I've got a plan in mind, but I don't know how well it will work. I think this would give me the ability to try it, and if it doesn't do much, just skip it.

I'd hate to spend the cash on a full March pump configuration only to find out that my plan didn't really work.

For those curious, I've got an Electric Kettle with a drain on the bottom and a false bottom my bag rests on. I figure I could stick a copper pipe right down through the cover, cap the end, and drill many tiny holes along the length where it's submerged into the grain bag. I'd kick on the pump near the end of the mash, and keep the mash recirculating through the bag of grains while I heat it up to mash out. I'd think this would help both my clarity and efficiency.

 

[szac]

For those curious, I've got an Electric Kettle with a drain on the bottom and a false bottom my bag rests on. I figure I could stick a copper pipe right down through the cover, cap the end, and drill many tiny holes along the length where it's submerged into the grain bag. I'd kick on the pump near the end of the mash, and keep the mash recirculating through the bag of grains while I heat it up to mash out. I'd think this would help both my clarity and efficiency.

That's awesome. Sounds like a DIY Braumeister. Got any pics? I'd love to condense my brewery down further in to something like that since I'm already mashing with full vol.

 

[briguy]

I've used dishwasher drain pumps on six brews so far and all is well. Here's a video with them in action:
http://junktrunk.com/2010/12/31/2010-holiday-homebrews/ it's the 'Porter vorlauf' video at the end of the post.

Just bought a couple of these pumps on ebay. Gonna try and build a similar setup. Looks good!