Disappointed in cooling times

[Octavius]

It took a total time of 2 hr and 20 min to cool two 10 gal batches down to 65F. Surely I'm doing something wrong, but what?

I use a DIY 1/2" immersion coil (can't remember if it is 25' or 50', but it is massive) Another cooling coil (I think 3/8", from the home brew store) is used as a pre-chiller in ice bath. Tap water (well water, actually) before pre-chiller was 40F! In addition, a Chugger, going full-bore, to re-circulate the hot wort (the whirlpool/immersion chiller technique).

Suggestions appreciated!

 

[beersnblues]

I remember attempting to chill my first 10 gal batch with a similar setup. While waiting for the temp to drop, I ordered my plate chiller. You already have the pump, I'd get a plate chiller. I only chilled a few 10 gal batches before I got my plate chiller but it did take over an hour to chill below 70.

 

[Hello]

Did you move the chiller around a bit every so often?

 

[Octavius]

Thanks for the reply.
How long does it take now with the plate chiller and do you still re-circulate?
Cheers!
Well, I don't move the coil at all because I have the wort recirculating (whirlpool/immersion chiller technique - that was the real reason for buying the Chugger)

 

[beersnblues]

It takes about 25 minutes. I am limited though by my water flow rate. I brew inside and the flow rate in my kitchen is 1.5 gpm.
I do recirculate. I use a 40 plate chiller. After 20 minutes, I turn the recirc rate down so that by 25 minutes the recirculation return is always below 70. I start collecting wort at this point. Now, the wort in the bk is still above 100, but what matters is the temp of wort you are collecting. I usually adjust the ball valve so I am collecting about 1/2 gpm. By trial and error I get a pitching temp of 65. Different setup for lagers.
Hope this helps.

 

[logdrum]

Hmmm. I just chilled 6.2 gal to 66ºF in ten min. I started w/ full bore tap water @ about 55ºF & switched to a cold loop (through a 1/2"x50' dual concentric immersion) with a second chugger whirlpooling the wort. I just sold my plate chiller because I rarely do 10 gal. batches-It was fast though. Maybe your 3/8" prechiller is impeding your flow rate, try a batch without-with 40ºF tap water, the prechiller is probably a hinderance rather than a help.

 

[Transamguy77]

Wow, I don't have water as cold as yours and I have a 1/2x50 IC and it only takes me 20-25 mins to cool 10 gallons.

How fast do you have the water running? If you are using a pump do you have it running wide open? If you are using a prechiller are you stirring that water also? If not the warmer water around the chiller will insulate it from cooling.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[logdrum]

...or try one of these:

http://jadedbrewing.com/products/the-hydra

 

[JaDeDBrewing]

logdrum is right about your pre chiller, it is definitly killing your flow rate and extending your chilling times. Here is what you can do to lower your chilling time to a more reasonable 9 to 12 minutes for 10 gallons:

1) Use a garden hose spigot, they have a much higher flow rate

2) Use the shortest garden hose possible (5/8" diameter or larger). They have 5 to 10 foot sections that are called "leader hoses" at most home improvement stores

3) Turn the water on full blast for the entire chilling time

4) In addition to using the pump, stir the wort with a spoon or paddle. With 10 gallons of wort, the pump is going to have trouble getting a good whirlpool going

5) Do not use a pre chiller

If you are still having issues, let us know. There are a few things we can check for that could also cause slower chilling times.

Our Hydra chiller that logdrum linked to will be able to chill that same 10 gallon batch in less than 5 minutes using the above techniques with 40 degree tap water.


Happy brewing!

 

[day_trippr]

I knocked two 5 gallon batches down to 64°F in eight minutes each today using a 40' 3/8" copper IC (I do my winter brewing in my shop and it's easier dealing with the IC than my DD 30-long chiller). My well runs in the low 50s year round.

Why use a pre-chiller with a 40° water source? Makes no sense to me...

Cheers!

 

[Octavius]

Wow!
Thanks for all the replies.
You've convinced to remove the pre-chiller - I'll try that next, along with shorter garden hose, full blast, and mixing the wort.
If that doesn't cut - then it's the Hydra chiller - that thing is a monster!
Cheers!

 

[thadius856]

That's wayyy too long.

I use a 1/2" x 50' stainless chiller, 58F groundwater this time of year, and a garden hose spigot. My time to 70F is in the 10-15 minute range for 10.5 gallon batches, and that's including chilling the mass of the keggle too.

The Hydra (and their other crazy models) looks cool, but the secret to their chilling times is the motion. To save my arms, I leave my chiller stationary and chuck a helical paint stirrer into my power drill, then flow the beer around the coil. It's a little less efficient than a recirc arm, but the solution cost me $5. I set the drill trigger on the lip of my keggle and it balances perfectly so that I don't even have to hold it.

 

[JaDeDBrewing]

The Hydra (and their other crazy models) looks cool, but the secret to their chilling times is the motion.

In a way you are correct, it is important to keep the hot wort moving over the cooling coils. However, it would be like saying that the secret to drag racing is to push down the gas pedal. We have spent countless hours designing and testing our chillers using the same methods that are listed in our last post. With the Hydra being 50% faster than a 50' 1/2" standard chiller, there is also speed to back up the designs, using equal testing methods. In fact, the Hydra can get within 30 seconds of the "top of the line" plate chillers using, what most homebrewers believe is a "beginner" type of chilling that is much less labor to maintain than a plate chiller.

All of our designs have come about from a gap in the existing chiller choices, and we back up our speed with a money back guarantee. We have been faced with an uphill battle trying to go up against the mentality of "immersion chillers take 30 to 60 minutes to chill" and we are trying to make sure that every homebrewer knows how to properly chill with an immersion chiller.

To save my arms, I leave my chiller stationary and chuck a helical paint stirrer into my power drill, then flow the beer around the coil. It's a little less efficient than a recirc arm.

You are actually probably getting better times with your method than if you were using a whirlpool arm, they do not do the best job of getting the entire volume of the kettle moving quick across the chilling coils. Plus, clean-up with your stirrer is easier than cleaning a pump!

 

[Bobby_M]

It took a total time of 2 hr and 20 min to cool two 10 gal batches down to 65F. Surely I'm doing something wrong, but what?

I use a DIY 1/2" immersion coil (can't remember if it is 25' or 50', but it is massive) Another cooling coil (I think 3/8", from the home brew store) is used as a pre-chiller in ice bath. Tap water (well water, actually) before pre-chiller was 40F! In addition, a Chugger, going full-bore, to re-circulate the hot wort (the whirlpool/immersion chiller technique).

Suggestions appreciated!

With 40F tap water, you should be able to get 10 gallons to 65F in about 20 minutes. What does your recirculation return system look like? Do you have any gaps between the coils of your chiller or are they all touching? You need at least 1/4" gap between coils.

 

[Octavius]

Thanks for posting, Bobby.

As far as the recirculation, I modeled the shape of the return copper pipe after the one morebeer.com sells.

You may have something on the gap - I think they are touching! I'll rectify that and give it another shot, along with all the other suggestions later this week.

Thanks everyone.

 

[bajaedition]

takes me 15 minutes with an immersion chiller to cool 5 gallons
I do not know what you are doing wrong but I could cool it in a hot bath at that long

 

[MrSaLTy]

In my opinion, a setup like this is the best option.

http://www.wortomatic.com/php/articles.php?ID=11

With a pump to recirculate the hot wort though the chiller. (not inside the chiller but through the coils) This is my plan anyways.

 

[Octavius]

Don't get your hopes up, Mr. Salty. I'm using that technique.

That is why I'm disappointed -I had invested in a $150 pump for the whirlpool/cooling.

...using a whirlpool arm, they do not do the best job of getting the entire volume of the kettle moving quick across the chilling coils...

Cheers!

 

[logdrum]

I whirlpool through the kettle, not a separate arm, for the 10min time posted above. Using this:
Of course I've added the uprights at this point. : )

 

[kombat]

I made the jump to a pump and a plate chiller and have been extremely happy with my setup. I can chill 5 gallons down to the low 60s in about 8 minutes. There have been a couple times where I wasn't paying attention (spraying out the mash tun) and accidentally OVER chilled. I turned around and my kettle was reading 55° F!

10 gallons takes about 15 minutes. I recirculate through the chiller back into the kettle. The wort exiting my chiller is at around 50° F in the winter using tap water from a faucet in my garage.

 

[Octavius]

That's a beast, Logdrum.

The way I understand it is that using a separate arm -pointing at the center of the pot - (rather than through a port in the kettle's side) would be more efficient. That way, the returned wort has to go past the cooling coil to get to the kettle valve.

If a slug of wort is returned via a port in the kettle's side it could exit the valve without even contacting the cooling coil.

I guess you have proved that this is not important. Either that or your double coil is so efficient it really doesn't matter.

Thanks for the pic.

 

[Octavius]

I made the jump to a pump and a plate chiller...
10 gallons takes about 15 minutes. ..

Thanks for the info.

I'm taking all the good advice here and trying again - probably early next week.

If there's not a significant improvement I'll consider a plate chiller or the Hydra.

Cheers!

 

[Setesh]

I agree with JadedBrewing. Flow rate is going to be key. Also, I have never seen the Hydra before, that is a neat bit of kit there Jaded! If you had a stainless option I would be all over it, but I pity the person who has to bend that from stainless.

 

[Setesh]

To save my arms, I leave my chiller stationary and chuck a helical paint stirrer into my power drill, then flow the beer around the coil. It's a little less efficient than a recirc arm, but the solution cost me $5. I set the drill trigger on the lip of my keggle and it balances perfectly so that I don't even have to hold it.

I have found that even with a whirlpool chiller I have to stir the center of the wort just to disturb it. If I don't I will have a plug of ~10 degree hotter liquid in the center of the whirlpool. So your solution probably works great. If you were able to put the rod through a lid so you could keep stuff from falling into the kettle that would be perfect.

 

[logdrum]

I use the kettle port because I already had it plumbed in. This way I can continue to whirlpool after I hit my temp without switching any hoses.

 

[logdrum]

That's a beast, Logdrum.

The way I understand it is that using a separate arm -pointing at the center of the pot - (rather than through a port in the kettle's side) would be more efficient. That way, the returned wort has to go past the cooling coil to get to the kettle valve.

If a slug of wort is returned via a port in the kettle's side it could exit the valve without even contacting the cooling coil.

I guess you have proved that this is not important. Either that or your double coil is so efficient it really doesn't matter.

Thanks for the pic.

The diameter of the chiller is large enough that wort does hit the coils.

 

[BigTuna]

I realize how I chill is different than your set up but I've always had great results this way...

I use about 30' of 3/8 copper tubing submersed in a 5 gallon bucket full of running water from a hose. This does waste water but I have plans to make the unit closed and have the heated water go into my HLT. I've always been able to drain my BK ( 10 gal batches) in about 15-20 and I consistently get temps of about 70 degrees. I leave the hose running and sink it to the bottom, This insures that the cool water will flow from the bottom and the hotter water will spill out of the top.

My 2c