Cooling the wort

[GeorgePap78]

I would like to ask about the cooling method of the wort

I have a grainfather g30 and to cool the wort I follow the procedure below.
I have an immersion chiller inside a bucket with water and ice cubes, the tap water comes in which cools and as it leaves the immersion chiller, it enters the counterflow chiller of the grainfather. There the wort cools, which ends up in the fermentation bucket.
With this process I manage to lower the temperature to 65F. I haven't been able to lower it more. But I know that some lager yeasts want a lower temperature from the start, for example 50-53 F. How can I accomplish this? Should I use a plate chiller? I've thought about putting the fermentation bucket in the fridge and when it reaches 50F then pitching the yeast, but I read somewhere that it's dangerous for contamination.

Thank you

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I put my immersion chiller into the hot wort and pass tap water through it for about 20 minutes until it reaches the early 20C’s . Uses a lot of water but we get a lot of rain in the UK lol. If I want the fermentation temperature lower I set the fermentation fridge to that temperature.

 

[mashdar]

I think most people put the immersion chiller in the kettle and pump the ice water through it. Typically an little pond/aquarium pump is sufficient.

Your method is fine, with 2 caveats:
1. Add a ball valve to reduce flow Then you adjust flow to get your desired temperature.
2. Putting cold-side beer through the inside of a chiller requires very good cleaning and sanitation. You can't see the inside of the coil. I would pump PBW/oxiclean/etc through it after every use, and recirc boiling wort for 5 minutes (with the chiller wrapped in a towel etc to keep it hot). If the chiller is copper IDK how it reacts to caustic cleaners.

Personally I like to inspect any surfaces that will contact cold-side beer, but I'm a nut.

ps, you can stir the ice bath to improve heat transfer. For repeatability, maybe a submersible pond pump with a 90 to cause whirlpool?

 

[GeorgePap78]

I put my immersion chiller into the hot wort and pass tap water through it for about 20 minutes until it reaches the early 20C’s . Uses a lot of water but we get a lot of rain in the UK lol. If I want the fermentation temperature lower I set the fermentation fridge to that temperature.

I think most people put the immersion chiller in the kettle and pump the ice water through it. Typically an little pond/aquarium pump is sufficient.

Your method is fine, with 2 caveats:
1. Add a ball valve to reduce flow Then you adjust flow to get your desired temperature.
2. Putting cold-side beer through the inside of a chiller requires very good cleaning and sanitation. You can't see the inside of the coil. I would pump PBW/oxiclean/etc through it after every use, and recirc boiling wort for 5 minutes (with the chiller wrapped in a towel etc to keep it hot). If the chiller is copper IDK how it reacts to caustic cleaners.

Personally I like to inspect any surfaces that will contact cold-side beer, but I'm a nut.

ps, you can stir the ice bath to improve heat transfer. For repeatability, maybe a submersible pond pump with a 90 to cause whirlpool?

Thank you for your answers.
I used to put the immersion chiller in the hot wort but the tap water was not cold enough to decrease the temp to the degrees I would like.
I clean the counterflow chiller with a grainfather cleaner and I let hot wort through.
I will seriously consider the pump.

 

[IslandLizard]

To bring the wort down from boiling to ~100-120F (~40-50C) you can use plain tap water, even if it's warmish. Using ice at that stage is a true waste. Better save it and use it to get the last 30-60F (20-40C) down to pitching temps.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I've thought about putting the fermentation bucket in the fridge and when it reaches 50F then pitching the yeast, but I read somewhere that it's dangerous for contamination.

This is pretty common. I have come back and pitched the yeast the following morning without any issues.

I don't use a plate or counterflow chiller myself, but what I have seen people do is to recirculate back into the kettle to lower the entire wort down to a reasonable temp using tap water (not sure...maybe 90F, maybe colder). From there you should be able to get lower with the counterflow chiller and ice water, but it would depend on your flow rate and the temperature of the cold water.

 

[wdavis2003]

To bring the wort down from boiling to ~100-120F (~40-50C) you can use plain tap water, even if it's warmish. Using ice at that stage is a true waste. Better save it and use it to get the last 30-60F (20-40C) down to pitching temps.

^ This is the way

Immersion chiller in hot wort until 100-120 (I get mine down to about 90 first). Then switch over to your normal process.

 

[redrocker652002]

Good to know about the tap water for the first part of the chill down. I typically put the IC in the boiling wort for about 20 mins to get it sterile. Then, I have a big tub that my wife used to use for gardening that I now use as part of my DIY bucket and keg cleaner, and put my pond pump in it. Attach one end of the IC to the pump and the other end just hangs in the tub. I then go to the local liquor store and buy about 5 5 pound bags of ice. Dump them in the tub, add enough water to cover the pump and let it go. I have never timed it so I have no idea how long it takes, but it seems to work ok. I then dump the water into a trash can outside we use to catch rainwater to use for her garden. California has had a huge issue with water use, so anyway to recycle is how I like to do it. Hope that makes sense.

 

[mashdar]

I use tap down to ~140F, but I also freeze 5 gal of water. 0F ice can theoretically drop an identical weight of 212F water to 34F.

Edit: just checked specific heat of ice, because I was assuming it was roughly same as liquid water. It's half! So theoretical equilibrium is actually 42F. Not quite as great, but still perfectly cromulent.

 

[redrocker652002]

I use tap down to ~140F, but I also freeze 5 gal on water. 0F ice can theoretically drop an identical weight of 212F water to 34F.

I wish I had space in the freezer to do that. Would save me a trip and about 10 bucks in frozen water at the liquor store. LOL.

 

[DBhomebrew]

I use tap down to ~140F, but I also freeze 5 gal on water. 0F ice can theoretically drop an identical weight of 212F water to 34F.

1 part 0°F ice to 1 part 212° water would bring it to 106°F. No?

 

[wepeeler]

I would like to ask about the cooling method of the wort

I have a grainfather g30 and to cool the wort I follow the procedure below.
I have an immersion chiller inside a bucket with water and ice cubes, the tap water comes in which cools and as it leaves the immersion chiller, it enters the counterflow chiller of the grainfather. There the wort cools, which ends up in the fermentation bucket.
With this process I manage to lower the temperature to 65F. I haven't been able to lower it more. But I know that some lager yeasts want a lower temperature from the start, for example 50-53 F. How can I accomplish this? Should I use a plate chiller? I've thought about putting the fermentation bucket in the fridge and when it reaches 50F then pitching the yeast, but I read somewhere that it's dangerous for contamination.

Thank you

Do this. It's cheap, and works GREAT. I agree with using regular tap water at first to get wort under 100, maybe even 80F, then add ice and recirculate. You can get to 50F in a very short amount of time by recirculating ice water through an immersion chiller.

 

[MaxStout]

I have an extra copper IC that is dedicated as a pre-chiller. Sometimes I like to brew lagers in the warm months when the tap water is ~65F. The pre-chiller is set up in series with the main chiller, using short lengths of hoses to connect them. I run tap water through the system until the main chiller gets the wort is down to about mid-70s or so. Then I submerge the pre-chiller in a bucket of ice water (more ice than water), which allows the main chiller to bring the wort down to pitching temp. The key is to watch the ice-filled bucket and have extra ice to drop in as needed. It's not unusual for me to use up a 10 lb bag of ice.

 

[mashdar]

1 part 0°F ice to 1 part 212° water would bring it to 106°F. No?

Heat of fusion (melting energy) is 144btu/lb

edit: 1 btu raises 1 lb H2O by 1 degree F

water is awesome

 

[DBhomebrew]

Latent heat. Interesting...

 

[_BullDog_]

I have a plate chiller, came with the unibrau, and I just use rave water from my well and it generally gets down to 65-70 after about 15-20 minutes. If I want the wort cooler then I let it cool down in the temp controlled chest freezer where it will ferment.

Think that is the key, get it mostly cold and wherever you are going to lager it let it cool the wort down the rest of the way before you pitch.

 

[Whisky River]

One other option if ice/water usage is an issue is to use a jockey box cold plate as a pre-chiller. I keep one in the fridge (not freezer) and it takes up a lot less room than freezing gallons of water. Sometimes you can find them cheep used because they are probably filled with gunk you don’t want touching your beer but they work great for chilling water. If you find a 4 or 6 circuit plate you can also connect the circuits in series to get the water as cold as possible.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Hear of fusion (melting energy) is 144btu/lb

edit: 1 btu raises 1 lb H2O by 1 degree F

water is awesome

OMG British Thermal Units haven’t used them since Thermodynamics as part of my Mechanical Engineering degree in early 1970’s. That was a time the UK was moving (slowly) towards metrification so we had to deal with both standards and convert using a slide rule.

 

[mashdar]

OMG British Thermal Units haven’t used them since Thermodynamics as part of my Mechanical Engineering degree in early 1970’s. That was a time the UK was moving (slowly) towards metrification so we had to deal with both standards and convert using a slide rule.

They're great if you're dealing with water and degrees F! Less great in all other contexts.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Do this. It's cheap, and works GREAT. I agree with using regular tap water at first to get wort under 100, maybe even 80F, then add ice and recirculate. You can get to 50F in a very short amount of time by recirculating ice water through an immersion chiller.

I do the same. In the summer my tap water is around 75F, so I can use that to get to around 90F in 10 minutes, then another 10 minutes with circulating ice water can get me down to 65F for ales (I have not done a cold fermented lager in several years). In the winter my tap water can usually get me down to 65F without using the ice water.

My kegs are in a fridge with a top freezer (mostly full of hops). With 4 sets of ice cube trays and a couple small containers to make small blocks of ice, I can make enough ice in just a few days. Unfortunately, since I try to keep the fridge relatively warm (~38F) the freezer compartment only gets down to around 18F, so the ice is not as cold as it could be.

Before I started using the recirculating pump, I would often chill to below 80F, then knock off the rest in my fermentation chamber for a few hours. Before I had the chamber I would run my immersion chiller for a LONG time and was probably still always pitching too warm.

 

[Graham H]

Good to know about the tap water for the first part of the chill down. I typically put the IC in the boiling wort for about 20 mins to get it sterile. Then, I have a big tub that my wife used to use for gardening that I now use as part of my DIY bucket and keg cleaner, and put my pond pump in it. Attach one end of the IC to the pump and the other end just hangs in the tub. I then go to the local liquor store and buy about 5 5 pound bags of ice. Dump them in the tub, add enough water to cover the pump and let it go. I have never timed it so I have no idea how long it takes, but it seems to work ok. I then dump the water into a trash can outside we use to catch rainwater to use for her garden. California has had a huge issue with water use, so anyway to recycle is how I like to do it. Hope that makes sense.

Ja, also in California, so I run mine closed loop as you described. The ice water I use as a heat sink gets poured onto lawn/trees when I’m done.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

I have a anvil 10 and I send my wort back to the boil kettle recirculating and just add ice water inside the coils, eventually right to the carboy in a freezer, it usually lands at around 75f in the freezer in about 15 minutes or so, I chill it over night to 65F anyway

 

[GeorgePap78]

Thank you very much everyone for your help and advice! Have a nice day!

 

[gewehr43sniper]

i let my garden hose water going thru the chiller chill it as much as possible, then let my upright freezer do the rest before pitching the yeast