Dirty Socks??

[chanson16]

I brewed a wheat recipe that I designed and it tastes like the smell of dirty socks. I am wondering if it is the yeast I used. I used Wyeast 1010 American Wheat. A few sniffs of the airlock during fermentation were pretty bad so that is why I think it could be the yeast. My grain and hop bills are below.

4lbs 2-Row
4lbs Red Wheat
.5lb Honey Malt
.5lb Rice Hulls
.5lb CaraRed

.33 oz Centennial (60 minutes)
.5 oz Saaz (30 minutes)
.5 oz Saaz (5 minutes)

Any thoughts? Also can I throw in an ounce or two of Cascade in my keg to try and mask it with a stronger hop flavor?

 

[Obliviousbrew]

When did you brew this?

 

[chanson16]

About a month ago.

 

[chanson16]

Bump. I am really curious if anyone has had a bad experience with wyeast American wheat giving terrible off flavors.

 

[RmikeVT]

have you tasted it? does it taste bad?

 

[AmandaK]

Some wheat strains can smell terrible in the fermenter. For instance, WY3068 smells like dog farts when it's fermenting, but if you let it clean itself up it smells much better after fermentation is complete.

 

[chanson16]

It has been about a month since I brewed it. It does not taste very good. Has a very strong after taste.

 

[TCWbrew]

What temperature was the yeast pitched at and fermented at?

 

[AmandaK]

It has been about a month since I brewed it. It does not taste very good. Has a very strong after taste.

Okay. So, how was your sanitation? And can you describe this aftertaste? I once had a beer that smelled like "wet dog poopy feet", which was clearly a sanitation issue. I'm hoping to get a more clear picture of what the off-flavor really is.

This is a good place to start for terms, if you need it.

 

[Yooper]

It has been about a month since I brewed it. It does not taste very good. Has a very strong after taste.

Sounds infected, maybe with brett, since "dirty socks" isn't a pleasant smell (at least to me!), and well, Amanda's "wet dog poopy feet" could be worse. :cross:

But take a look at that link and see if you can come up more descriptive flavor/aroma.

How's the color? Is it clear, or cloudy? How about texture? Any slickness or ropiness?

 

[chanson16]

The taste is both grainy and astringent (i think). The beer is fairly cloudy but I figured it was the wheat. My mash temp was higher than what I was shooting for (mashed at 156 and didn't really drop for the 60 minute mash). I fly sparged with 175 degree sparge water for 30 minutes.

Would it help to throw some gelatin in the keg to try to drop the yeast out of suspension? Thanks for all your thoughts.

 

[Brewskii]

I' m gonna say your hops were oxidized. ( not stored cold and/or in open air. This gives a " cheezey" note that is like Provalone or like foot odor.

I say oxidized hops ... AKA ; cheesy hops

 

[Brewskii]

I' m gonna say your hops were oxidized. ( not stored cold and/or in open air. This gives a " cheezey" note that is like Provalone or like foot odor.

I say oxidized hops ... AKA ; cheesy hops

BTW... 175 is too hot for sparge... Don't go over 168 or your asking for grainy notes.

 

[chanson16]

BTW... 175 is too hot for sparge... Don't go over 168 or your asking for grainy notes.

Thanks. I have been thinking about adding a mash out to my process and read that you want to heat the mash up to 170? Would you still sparge with 168?

The Centennial hops that i used were from a previous brew a few months earlier. Had them in the freezer in a small tupperware that has a fairly tight seal.

 

[RmikeVT]

Thanks. I have been thinking about adding a mash out to my process and read that you want to heat the mash up to 170? Would you still sparge with 168?

The Centennial hops that i used were from a previous brew a few months earlier. Had them in the freezer in a small tupperware that has a fairly tight seal.

I think you might have found your problem.

 

[chanson16]

I think you might have found your problem.

I have stored the same way in the past. I didn't imagine that .33 oz of hops would give such a strong off flavor.

 

[Brewskii]

Thanks. I have been thinking about adding a mash out to my process and read that you want to heat the mash up to 170? Would you still sparge with 168?

I look a it this way... The enzymatic action has done its work so a few extra degrees isn't going to buy you a noticeable increase in extract, but you could notice the flavor change and is it really worth taking the chance?

Judges noted an astringent notes in a few of my beers in different categories when I had a "170 or maybe a few more" attitude in my sparge. I never go above 168 now.

 

[Brewskii]

I have stored the same way in the past. I didn't imagine that .33 oz of hops would give such a strong off flavor.

Not saying you can't get away with it but do this... Next time you have .33 oz left, put it in your Tupperware and set it in a warm place for a couple weeks . Then smell them every now and then and see if that's not what your getting from your beer..

Hops oxidize rather quickly so it shouldn't take very long at warm temps.

 

[theBFG]

I think I am having the same problem with a beer I just racked to secondary last night. Doesn't really taste bad but the smell was like dirty socks. I keep my hops in airtight mason jars in the freezer. I've only had the hops for a month or so, maybe a little more. Can they still get oxidized in a mason jar in the freezer?

Secondly, I put 3 oz of Citra hops to dry hop. These hops were in their original packaging, whole leaf. Will this mask the smell or is this ruined now?

 

[AmandaK]

Okay. There are a lot of things to address in the above posts that are speculation, bad science and hearsay. I hope to not sound like too much of an a$$, I just want to make sure we are all on the same page.

1) "Old hops"

I' m gonna say your hops were oxidized. ( not stored cold and/or in open air. This gives a " cheezey" note that is like Provalone or like foot odor. I say oxidized hops ... AKA ; cheesy hops

Here's the thing, it would take sitting & baking in direct sunlight or a year in a sealed Tupperware container for whole hops to go cheesy and nasty. More time if pellet hops. How do I know? I do this on purpose for my lambics. I have nearly a pound of Tradition whole leaf hops that have been left at room temp in a sealed container for over a year and they've gotten a bit less green, some are yellow-ish, none are cheesy. I baked a half pound of US Goldings in my car over the summer - now those were cheesy! (Whole leaf again.)

I store my bulk pellet hops in the freezer in Ziploc baggies to no ill effects - sometimes for a year. The OP's storage methods are just fine for what he's doing.

2) "Too hot of a sparge"

BTW... 175 is too hot for sparge... Don't go over 168 or your asking for grainy notes.

The OP stated he mashed at 156 and did not mention a mash out, meaning that adding 175* water to the mix would result in 167* water (assuming 3.5 gallons strike and 5.5 gallons sparge). So there's that. BUT, even if he did do a mash out to 168* and then added 175* water, the resultant temp would only be 172* (which is the upper limit for a Hochkurz Mash.)

Also, "over-sparging" or sparging at too high of a temperature results in astringency (akin to chewing on grape skins - a prickling in the sides/back of the throat), not a grainy flavor.


All that being said, "dirty socks" is likely an issue with sanitation. Should you watch your sparge temps? Absolutely, but it is not the issue with the dirty socks.

Okay, peace, love & tranquility.

 

[Brewskii]

Good luck using those hops That aren't oxidized.

For the record; I never said that HE oxidized his hops.

Additionally, I don't know what the Op is doing as far as A sparge protocol or mash off, but if he is sparing his grain bed @ 175 deg F ; I stand by my Post.

YMMV...

Peace be with you.

 

[Brewskii]

From BYO:

http://byo.com/stories/article/indices/37-hops/288-brewing-for-flavor-hops

"The other source of bitterness in hops comes from the beta acids, also known generically as lupulones. Beta acids have little significance to what brewers call “brewing value,” but their aging products do. During storage, beta acids degrade due to oxidation. Unlike alpha acids, however, their oxidation products are bitter. This means that oxidized beta acids make up some of the bittering lost by alpha-acid oxidation during storage.

Oxidized beta acids also have an aroma: cheese. This cheesy aroma is due to volatile fatty acids released from oxidized beta acids. These volatile fatty acids are identical to compounds found in aged cheeses, such as parmesan and romano "

Sounds a lot like the way the OP described it.

...just sayin'

 

[Yooper]

BTW... 175 is too hot for sparge... Don't go over 168 or your asking for grainy notes.

As way mentioned, no WAY 175 is too hot for a sparge when batch sparging (or even fly sparging).

When I batch sparge, my first addition is almost 200 degrees! I guess my beers must suck.

I think, as I said earlier, that "dirty socks" sounds like an infection. Could be brett, but without actually getting to smell this beer or tasting it, that's only a guess.

I doubt its oxidized hops unless they were opened and left out for ages.

 

[chanson16]

Thanks for all the feedback. My problem may be oversparging. I typically focus more on hitting my pre-boil volume rather than watching the gravity of the runoff. What are some good tips to help with hitting pre-boil volume without oversparging?

 

[AmandaK]

As way mentioned, no WAY 175 is too hot for a sparge when batch sparging (or even fly sparging).

When I batch sparge, my first addition is almost 200 degrees! I guess my beers must suck.

I think, as I said earlier, that "dirty socks" sounds like an infection. Could be brett, but without actually getting to smell this beer or tasting it, that's only a guess.

I doubt its oxidized hops unless they were opened and left out for ages.

My beers must suck too Yoop.

Guess you can only help if people are willing to listen.

 

[Yooper]

Thanks for all the feedback. My problem may be oversparging. I typically focus more on hitting my pre-boil volume rather than watching the gravity of the runoff. What are some good tips to help with hitting pre-boil volume without oversparging?

Oversparging isn't usually an issue for a decent sized grainbill. If you have a small grainbill, say 6 pounds of grain in a 5 gallon batch, then it could be an issue. But for any normal sized grainbill it's almost impossible to oversparge.

Most people undersparge, as to hit their preboil volume and not have to boil for 4 hours.

 

[theBFG]

I think I am having the same problem with a beer I just racked to secondary last night. Doesn't really taste bad but the smell was like dirty socks. I keep my hops in airtight mason jars in the freezer. I've only had the hops for a month or so, maybe a little more. Can they still get oxidized in a mason jar in the freezer?

Secondly, I put 3 oz of Citra hops to dry hop. These hops were in their original packaging, whole leaf. Will this mask the smell or is this ruined now?

**UPDATE**

Let it sit on the citra hops in secondary for ~10 days and racked to a keg/force carbed/bottled with a blichmann beer gun. Tasted great! Must have just been a smelly fermentation!

 

[NateLTB]

**UPDATE**

Let it sit on the citra hops in secondary for ~10 days and racked to a keg/force carbed/bottled with a blichmann beer gun. Tasted great! Must have just been a smelly fermentation!

Good to hear that your beer turned out okay. Have you ever made Apfelwein? Talk about a stinky fermentation!

When I batch sparge, my first addition is almost 200 degrees! I guess my beers must suck.

I'll PM you my address Yooper and you can mail me as many of your sucky beers as you'd like.

 

[Yooper]

I'll PM you my address Yooper and you can mail me as many of your sucky beers as you'd like.

You are so generous for offering. But I feel like I must do my penance alone. With four beers on tap at the moment, and one in the fermenter, it sucks to be me. :cross:

 

[NateLTB]

I would LOVE to have four beers on tap. I've only got two at mi casa. Thinking of adding a nitro tap to the set-up though. I do however have three different beers currently fermenting!