Direct Grain Purchase - Interesting Correspondance

[ArcaneXor]

If there were a really good LHBS I'd use it. Like I said I TRIED. I tried hard.

It sounds like your local store is particularly crappy. Have you talked to the owner about your concerns though? Did he blow you off, or try to make things right?

 

[BlackBetty]

My guess is that most who are really enjoying success as a LHBS have a pretty strong online and mail-order business.

You hit the nail on the head with that comment. If you measure success by money made at the end of the day.

But is it the chicken before the egg? Home brew store opens up, customers come in initially, customers leave to save money online, home brew store opens online store front to make some extra sales, home brew store service goes downhill, remaining customers are unhappy with service and also move to buying online, many owners move to online fronts only. In the end, many wind up buying online.

Is there anything wrong with buying online? Not at all. It reallly REALLLY is upsetting that many online retailers sell products for much less than I purchase them for, and customers automatically assume I am trying to rip them off. But I can't fault the business, as they wouldn't exist if the consumer was happy at a local shop, right? I see both sides of the debate. I completely understand some folks don't want to spend the time to come in and get to know the owners/etc - between kids, jobs, etc - a lot of people don't have the time to drive across town. For those, online stores may well be best.

We try to measure success in our shop on a personal satisfaction level, we're not going to get rich off of selling locally only. There is no way we could possibly sell enough to provide that sort of cash flow with the profit margins involved, it's numbers. I'm not saying we operate off of pity-factor from customers, for some service is worth $$, for others it is not. I do not fault people for not wanting to pay for service, we live in a free country. However, going back to the original thread topic, you cannot expect to buy direct on some items, averting the LHBS and then expect them to be there for you with the cash flow needed to provide inventory. I hope to never have to sell online to make ends meet, I cannot imagine there is any personal satisfaction in that - as your consumers only buy from you for price/speed.

If you tried to give a LHBS your business, and they failed you over and over and over. You did the right thing by going elsewhere. You can't support local businesses blindly, you're correct with that tone. If they truly suck, taking your money elsewhere is how to make them listen eventually. Sometimes small businesses go through phases though, give them a try again sometime and see if they've changed. Maybe they've finally listened?

 

[RDWHAHB]

I bought all of my stuff online....until I did a group buy on base malt. Now I spend all my money local for specialty grains, yeast, hops, books, and whatever. So some LHBS shops should realize that for some cases, they aren't losing and base grain sale, they gain a customer for everything else.

 

[Homercidal]

I like my LHBS. It's just too far away. But I rarely order online. I can make it down that way to go to the lhbs enough to buy what I need in ingredients and equipment to last a while now. The store owner has TONS of stuff for brewing, wine, smoking, cheese, etc. They host a Homebrewer Appreciation Day each May. Friday evening they have seminars from brewers and other professionals that cover topics such as hops growing, water chemistry, beer appreciation, how cider is made and tips, etc... Then on Saturday there is a BBQ at a park with homebrewers sharing their craft and breweies donating swag and sometimes beer to sample, and there's games and of course food and more homebrew!

And their domestic 2-row is like $40 a sack. The price difference is not enough to warrant grouping up and screwing the store owner, who puts as much into this hobby as anyone, out of a bit of money.

I'm not saying that all lhbs's can afford to do this sort of thing, but maybe if they looked into putting in a bit more effort, they can attract loyalty like this.

Far different from the store up in TC who has a very limited selection, keeps the hops out of the fridge, and wanted to charge $65 for a sack of grain (And that was HIS price!) Personally, I think someone could do a nice turn by opening a homebrew supply up in TC!

 

[Revvy]

I bought all of my stuff online....until I did a group buy on base malt. Now I spend all my money local for specialty grains, yeast, hops, books, and whatever. So some LHBS shops should realize that for some cases, they aren't losing and base grain sale, they gain a customer for everything else.

That's exactly what I said. My lhbs is only out about 32 bucks every 6 months or so....while I still spend a couple hundred there in the interim. And actually I think I brewed several recipes that used either Pilsner or Marris Otter rather than the 2-row I had at home.

 

[jfowler1]

I discussed this point a few weeks ago when someone was complaining about an awesome online supplier's "slow" ("slow" because it was not Amazon Prime) shipping times.

Every homebrew supply is a distributer or retailer. They are nothing more than a middle man. Sure, some manufacture a couple items (B3's sculptures for example) but the vast majority of their sales are really resale. Odds are, they are not even a middle man; they are just a link in the supply chain. Briess malts grain. They sell it to a wholesaler. And so it goes, until it is in your mash tun. It was mentioned earlier that a 50% mark up on a lb (or yes, even a sack) at the retail level is "crazy" compared to the price of buying 5 skids of grain direct from a wholesaler. Are you "crazy"? How can you compare the two.

My business deals with pipe. I buy several truckloads of pipe direct from a mill. I get a good price. I buy better than a competitor who is too small to buy right from the mill. Am I supposed to pass along that price break to my customer who wants 1 piece, or do I put it in my pocket? The customer does not dictate that, the market does.

Another thing to remember before crying about prices at the LHBS, or lead times from online retailers.

Price, Availability, Service.
The customer gets 2; the distributer gets the third. You are brewing today, and you need a vial of yeast. What is the most important things at that moment? Availibility and service. So what if LHBS gets $9 for a vial, when Northern Brewer gets 6. Guess what; you can have it for $6 (plus shipping) but you are not brewing it today. So the choice is easy. LHBS gets to keep price. Be happy to have it on the shelf and a guy behind the counter who can answer a question about the ideal temperature for that yeast.

Flip side. Let's say I need a pound of Cascade hops for my next three brews. In this case, I want to keep price and availibility, because those hops add up. I am choosing to give up service. I am going to order from hops direct, and wait two weeks for them to pack and ship. I get price and the hop I need is available, but hopsdirect gets to keep service. Yes, there is a cost to serve, and likewise, good service should be handled as a premium.

That said, walk into an expensive LHBS and find crappy service and empty shelves...then you have a complaint. The solution is still easy. Don't shop there.

Joe

 

[evanos]

Yeah, I think the maltster's take on selling to homebrewer's directly is their choice, but it sounds like this particular rep was pissed and tired of explaining the situation to people. Not really a cool response, kind of a ****** nozzle.