DIPA Hop bill, Citra, Amarillo, Simcoe, thoughts please

[olotti]

My first DIPA and was looking for some thoughts on this hop bill. All values are per Beersmith. OG is 1.078 with FG 1.010. Mashing at 148. With a 90 min boil. Going for a dry drinkeable, hop forward but not bitter, think Hop Ranch, New Glarus Scream or even Heady.

1oz Columbus 14%aa FWH and 90 min boik - 49 ibus
1oz Simcoe 12.7aa 20min - 11.6 ibus
1oz Amarillo 8.2aa 15min - 12 ibus
1oz Citra 12.5aa 10min - 13.6 ibus
1oz Citra 12.5aa 5min - 7.5 ibus
.5oz Simcoe 12.7aa 5min - 3.9 ibus

1oz ea Amarillo, Citra and Simcoe 30-45min hop steep/whirlpool (these are calculated at 5 minutes, if I add them as a 30min steep the ibus rocket up to 135 which seems awfully high, but maybe that's right)

Total IBUS = 110 Bitterness Ration is 1.441

1oz ea Amarillo, Citra and Simcoe dry hop

Any thoughts? Less FWH, more late hops, any thoughts are appreciated.

 

[hopbrad]

I'd do a 60 min addition. or split 1/2 FWH and 1/2 60 min addition. i recently did a FWH for the first time and it didnt give me the bitterness to stand up to the malt bill. Eventho the FG was 1.008 (from 1.076).
I mashed at 149.
When i first tasted it, it was sweet, which I thought was crazy for that low of an OG.
AND it was all basemalt(Maris otter) and 1/2 lb of table sugar. no crystal or specialty.

my hop schedule was:
1oz simcoe FWH
1.5 oz centennial @ 15
1.5 oz Simcoe @ 15
2 oz cascade @ 0
1 oz centennial @ 0

.75 oz simcoe @ dry hop
.75 oz Nelson Sauvin @ dry hop
1.5 oz galaxy @ dry hop

next time i'd add in a 60 min addition, especially for a double IPA.

 

[hopbrad]

I'd do a 60 min addition. or split 1/2 FWH and 1/2 60 min addition. i recently did a FWH for the first time and it didnt give me the bitterness to stand up to the malt bill. Eventho the FG was 1.008 (from 1.076).
I mashed at 149.
When i first tasted it, it was sweet, which I thought was crazy for that low of an OG.
AND it was all basemalt(Maris otter) and 1/2 lb of table sugar. no crystal or specialty.

my hop schedule was:
1oz simcoe FWH
1.5 oz centennial @ 15
1.5 oz Simcoe @ 15
2 oz cascade @ 0
1 oz centennial @ 0

.75 oz simcoe @ dry hop
.75 oz Nelson Sauvin @ dry hop
1.5 oz galaxy @ dry hop

next time i'd add in a 60 min addition, especially for a double IPA.

 

[olotti]

I'd do a 60 min addition. or split 1/2 FWH and 1/2 60 min addition. i recently did a FWH for the first time and it didnt give me the bitterness to stand up to the malt bill. Eventho the FG was 1.008 (from 1.076).
I mashed at 149.
When i first tasted it, it was sweet, which I thought was crazy for that low of an OG.
AND it was all basemalt(Maris otter) and 1/2 lb of table sugar. no crystal or specialty.

my hop schedule was:
1oz simcoe FWH
1.5 oz centennial @ 15
1.5 oz Simcoe @ 15
2 oz cascade @ 0
1 oz centennial @ 0

.75 oz simcoe @ dry hop
.75 oz Nelson Sauvin @ dry hop
1.5 oz galaxy @ dry hop

next time i'd add in a 60 min addition, especially for a double IPA.

I'm using 1/2 mo 1/2 2 row with 1 lb sugar. What was your final Ibu. I'm also doing a 90 min boil. I see a lot of the big name clone dipas that do a Fwh also do a 60 min addition so I was toying with that idea too.

 

[olotti]

Bumped

 

[moreb33rplz]

This is funny. I did this recipe almost exactly myself on Sunday. I added half the amount you did at 30,15,10,5, and a little more at flameout. I'll report back in 2 months.

 

[olotti]

This is funny. I did this recipe almost exactly myself on Sunday. I added half the amount you did at 30,15,10,5, and a little more at flameout. I'll report back in 2 months.

It seems like a good combo. You get grapefruit, floral and citrus from amarillo, some pine and a little more bitterness from the simcoe and then over the top orange, tropical fruit from the citra.

 

[joshesmusica]

i'm still fairly new to the hops game. would it just defeat the point to add it all at the (very) late additions considering they have different flavor and aroma profiles?

 

[bobbrews]

-Citra is tropical, juicy, and very fruity
-Simcoe is piney, dank, and a little fruity
-Amarillo is citrusy, floral, full of grapefruit and tangerine

When you mix Amarillo with Citra in equal amounts, the Citra takes over and you have something more tropical/fruity.

When you mix Simcoe and Amarillo, magic happens. I love this combo. If I were to add another easy to get, popular hop to this complex, it would be Centennial or Columbus. You'll get that citrusy + piney, easy drinking character with a tiny bit of fruitiness on the backend.

Citra is just way too potent for me nowadays. It can easily turn an IIPA into fruity hop juice unless it's used sparingly. When used in large amounts in the hopstand and dryhop, it's almost like adding straight up mango juice.

---------------

My other advice would be not to FWH at all. Heady Topper doesn't FWH. Pliny the Elder doesn't FWH. In fact, both of these beers rely on a ton of IBUs at a full rolling early boil and then nothing else until very late in the boil, if not at flameout. That bitter edge from the first charge will be tamed by blasting the IIPA later on with a ton of late and dryhop additions. These later additions will significantly tame the bitterness by adding a perceived juiciness via the highly flavorful and aromatic Pacific NW hops.

Neither Heady or Pliny are harshly bitter, yet both have amazing & complex hop forward character without tasting like hop juice. The trick there is to pound it with late additions and dryhop additions. 25-40% of the total recipe hops by weight late in the boil and/or during the whirlpool... 40-50% of the total recipe hops by weight in the dryhop. Use the rest of your hops at a full rolling, early boil.

Don't worry about Bitterness Ratio. While it may be of some importance for stouts, saisons, brown ales, etc.... when brewing American IIPAs, this statistic becomes meaningless.

 

[hopbrad]

I'm using 1/2 mo 1/2 2 row with 1 lb sugar. What was your final Ibu. I'm also doing a 90 min boil. I see a lot of the big name clone dipas that do a Fwh also do a 60 min addition so I was toying with that idea too.

i wasnt sure how to calculate FWH IBU's. but my guess this was in the 80-90 ibus.
Prior to the brew day i read so many mixed threads of what FWH actually contributes.
im a huge fan of the late hopping/hop stand/bursting beers as well. Mine was still a great beer, next time i will add a 1/2-1oz in the 60 or 90 minute and i think it would be top notch.

your base malt recipe is similar to Stone's Enjoy By, which is what i sorta went for too. i didnt have any american 2-row or pilsner on hand so i went with all MO. Maybe that was part of the reasoning why mine seemed a little sweet.