Diluting Beer with Water after FG

[jgaepi]

The skinny of this question is that I accidentally diluted my beer with approximately 16oz of starsan water. After the beer finished fermenting, in the process of moving my brew bucket to a higher spot for transfer to keg, I created a vacuum and got the starsan water sucked in. I only brew 2.5g batches so the 16oz constituted an approximate 5% dilution rate. My target FG was 1.012 but instead I got 1.020. Not to say that my FG might have been off a little already but I had excellent fermentation.

Can anyone tell me what is an approximation of how FG (or OG) can be affected by dilution with water? Thank you!

 

[day_trippr]

Adding 16 ounces to 2.5 gallons of 1.012 sg beer would drop the adjusted gravity to 1.011, and similarly if the gravity of your 2.63 gallons is now 1.020 it had to be 1.021 before the Star San addition. The math is based on m1v1= m2v2 - but there are lots of dilution calculators on the web, and most brew tool suites include one as well...

Cheers!

 

[Beer Nuts]

Market it as a bladder cleanse.

 

[jgaepi]

Explain that again? I hit my OG perfect. If this 16oz of blow off water actually lowered my FG an additional digit, that would effectively increase my alcohol when the FG is subtracted from the OG. Shouldn't that be the opposite? Having diluted my final beer? Shouldn't my FG actually have gone up - not down? Thanks.

Adding 16 ounces to 2.5 gallons of 1.012 sg beer would drop the adjusted gravity to 1.011, and similarly if the gravity of your 2.63 gallons is now 1.020 it had to be 1.021 before the Star San addition. The math is based on m1v1= m2v2 - but there are lots of dilution calculators on the web, and most brew tool suites include one as well...

Cheers!

 

[day_trippr]

You never mentioned OG. Neither did I.
You diluted your beer with what one has to consider to be essentially water - ie: 1.000 gravity, more or less.
Why wouldn't it drop the gravity of your finished beer - unless its gravity was sitting below 1.000 before the Star San addition?

Cheers!

 

[myndflyte]

Explain that again? I hit my OG perfect. If this 16oz of blow off water actually lowered my FG an additional digit, that would effectively increase my alcohol when the FG is subtracted from the OG. Shouldn't that be the opposite? Having diluted my final beer? Shouldn't my FG actually have gone up - not down? Thanks.

You diluted your final beer, not at the beginning. If your beer is done fermenting, and for example has 2.5 gallons of 5% ABV. Adding more water will dilute the alcohol. Yes it'll lower the gravity but it would have also lowered your starting gravity. So if you would need to adjust your OG and well as your FG for the additional water. But yes, gravity goes down, it's just how the math works.

 

[ajdelange]

With OG it's a pretty simple matter. You multiply the volume of the wort by 0.998203 times the SG. This is the mass of the wort. Convert the OG to °P and multiply the wort mass by °P/100. This gives you the mass of extract in the wort. Subtract the mass of the extract from the wort mass to get the mass of the water. Now divide the mass of the extract by the sum of the masses of the water in the wort and the water you are adding. This is the diluted °P. Convert to SG if desired. You will get an answer quite close to this if you multiply (SG -1)by the ratio of the volumes and add 1 to the result (SG) or multiply °P by the ratio of the volumes.

For beer it's trickier as there is alcohol in the mix. Determine the mass of the beer as above. Estimate the ABW from the OG and AG using the Balling table (in DeClerck. p428 Vol. II). Multiply the mass of the beer by ABW/100. This is the mass of the alcohol. Subtract from the mass of the beer to get the mass of water and extract. Add to that the mass of the water you intend to add and divide into the mass of the alcohol. This is the new ABW. Convert to ABV.

As beer is more dilute that wort you can estimate the new terminal gravity with sufficient accuracy using (SG -1)*volume ratio.

 

[jdauria]

I actually diluted a beer last year with seltzer water (on purpose) in the bottle to "create" a different beer. I had watched a Homebrew Con seminar from either '16 or '17 called In it to Win it, about winning comps...and these guys talked about diluting beers to create more entries in different styles. So of course I had to try it with pretty good success.

I took a Munich Helles and diluted it in the bottle with 4 oz of seltzer water and entered the diluted beer in three comps as an American Light Lager...it took a 1st and a 3rd, and scored a 39 at NHC and made mini-BOS but did not advance to finals. Meanwhile in same three comps, the Helles only got one 1st place, and only scored 30.5 at NHC. So point of the story...diluted beer is still good beer! And only one judge out of all of them picked up the seltzer, saying "beer tastes slightly seltzer like".

 

[jgaepi]

I actually diluted a beer last year with seltzer water (on purpose) in the bottle to "create" a different beer. I had watched a Homebrew Con seminar from either '16 or '17 called In it to Win it, about winning comps...and these guys talked about diluting beers to create more entries in different styles. So of course I had to try it with pretty good success.

I took a Munich Helles and diluted it in the bottle with 4 oz of seltzer water and entered the diluted beer in three comps as an American Light Lager...it took a 1st and a 3rd, and scored a 39 at NHC and made mini-BOS but did not advance to finals. Meanwhile in same three comps, the Helles only got one 1st place, and only scored 30.5 at NHC. So point of the story...diluted beer is still good beer! And only one judge out of all of them picked up the seltzer, saying "beer tastes slightly seltzer like".

Ok so kind of what I was thinking. Like taking 15oz of beer in a pint glass and then topping up with tap water. But, it does give me pause if my FG (which I didn't get a chance to sample before I sucked in 16oz of starsan water) wasn't near the mark at all. Like .009 off. Before I began milling, I had trouble getting a good OG. But my spread between OG and FG have always been pretty accurate. My OG here was supposed to be 1.049 and I hit 1.050. My FG was supposed to be 1.012 and I hit 1.021. I was really hoping the 16oz (into 320oz) was the reason. But maybe it's not in this case.

 

[jaymosbeershack]

The BMC guys actually dilute their finished yellow water as part of their process. They brew at 12ish% then water it down . There are 2 reasons for them, a 100 bbl fermenter can now make 225 bbl of diluted final product, and they can dial in their exact abv everytime.

 

[kh54s10]

Addressing the use of Starsan. You don't need that much. You only need enough to keep the end of your blow off tube submerged. I use a margarine cup with about 1/4 cup total of Starsan in it....

 

[bracconiere]

With OG it's a pretty simple matter. You multiply the volume of the wort by 0.998203 times the SG. This is the mass of the wort. Convert the OG to °P and multiply the wort mass by °P/100. This gives you the mass of extract in the wort. Subtract the mass of the extract from the wort mass to get the mass of the water. Now divide the mass of the extract by the sum of the masses of the water in the wort and the water you are adding. This is the diluted °P. Convert to SG if desired. You will get an answer quite close to this if you multiply (SG -1)by the ratio of the volumes and add 1 to the result (SG) or multiply °P by the ratio of the volumes.

For beer it's trickier as there is alcohol in the mix. Determine the mass of the beer as above. Estimate the ABW from the OG and AG using the Balling table (in DeClerck. p428 Vol. II). Multiply the mass of the beer by ABW/100. This is the mass of the alcohol. Subtract from the mass of the beer to get the mass of water and extract. Add to that the mass of the water you intend to add and divide into the mass of the alcohol. This is the new ABW. Convert to ABV.

As beer is more dilute that wort you can estimate the new terminal gravity with sufficient accuracy using (SG -1)*volume ratio.

Mass effect! lol
or maybe, massive attack.

 

[bracconiere]

And out of curiosity, i just tried to float a hydrometer in starsan...it was so massive, compared to volume. or dense... it floated so high it wouldn't even read.

How potent was this 16oz of starsan water? if it raised your gravity that much. i know it's a 'no rinse' sanitizer but would it be safe to drink?

 

[4of7]

Beer Troll asking..how did it happen?.. yes i read the beginning of the thread.

 

[bracconiere]

Beer Troll asking..how did it happen?.. yes i read the beginning of the thread.

now that you mention it 'troll'...lol, i read it and just assumed he pitched hot and it cooled. but with complete ferment already, obviously that's not what it was...

i thought you quality boy's pulled the blow off tube and swapped it for a bubbler after high krausen?

(and at least he knows the gravity changed! probably from the 1.68SG phosphoric acid)

 

[jgaepi]

Addressing the use of Starsan. You don't need that much. You only need enough to keep the end of your blow off tube submerged. I use a margarine cup with about 1/4 cup total of Starsan in it....

Having youngish kids, I've always been fearful of it getting tipped over.

 

[jgaepi]

And out of curiosity, i just tried to float a hydrometer in starsan...it was so massive, compared to volume. or dense... it floated so high it wouldn't even read.

How potent was this 16oz of starsan water? if it raised your gravity that much. i know it's a 'no rinse' sanitizer but would it be safe to drink?

That's the thing. I can't say for certain it raised my gravity that much. I assumed it did, but I have no way to guarantee. Maybe my fermentation wasn't as vigorous as I believed it to be.

 

[jgaepi]

now that you mention it 'troll'...lol, i read it and just assumed he pitched hot and it cooled. but with complete ferment already, obviously that's not what it was...

i thought you quality boy's pulled the blow off tube and swapped it for a bubbler after high krausen?

(and at least he knows the gravity changed! probably from the 1.68SG phosphoric acid)

Oh, I'm no expert. But I leave the blow off tube in the primary because I use an SS brew bucket with the elbow blow off barb. When I a secondary brew bucket, I have that lid ready for the airlock.

Funny that I recently taught my kids about transferring liquid with a tube. And that is kinda what happened to me. My kid lifted my starsan container faster than I lifted my bucket and positive suction sucked it right in. Faster than I could realize it was happening.

But it also became the lightening rod moment to convince my wife I need a designated brewing table (again) and displaced her sewing table. Sucks ...

 

[4of7]

Beer Troll asking what were you doing again? See the carboys in the picture.thats is there home.see the blow off tube in the bucket... not done...see the last one.. the one with the water lock .. it's just hanging out... waiting for clearing phase... I only do primary.. also.go find your own space for the beer... I know cuz wife asked me to leave the kitchen. I got to say good for you posting.
keg with gas line blow off to water b ucket..yes it will suck back in if the bucket is to high

 

[day_trippr]

[...](and at least he knows the gravity changed! probably from the 1.68SG phosphoric acid)

Not likely.
Don't know how you're coming up with such a ridiculous number. I just dropped my very accurate hydrometer in my bucket of Star San mixed as prescribed and after repeated attempts to discern some daylight below the 1.000 mark I'd concede it might be as high as 1.005 at 66°F.
That's two orders of magnitude below your reading.

One ounce of Star San in five gallons is not going to result in PA syrup...

Cheers!

 

[bracconiere]

Oh, I'm no expert. But I leave the blow off tube in the primary because I use an SS brew bucket with the elbow blow off barb. When I a secondary brew bucket, I have that lid ready for the airlock.

Funny that I recently taught my kids about transferring liquid with a tube. And that is kinda what happened to me. My kid lifted my starsan container faster than I lifted my bucket and positive suction sucked it right in. Faster than I could realize it was happening.

But it also became the lightening rod moment to convince my wife I need a designated brewing table (again) and displaced her sewing table. Sucks ...

ahh, gravity not temp did it. or siphon.. the troll got me wondering... @4of7 got me thinking...now i want to try and come up with a 7of9 beer?

Not likely.
Don't know how you're coming up with such a ridiculous number. I just dropped my very accurate hydrometer in my bucket of Star San mixed as prescribed and after repeated attempts to discern some daylight below the 1.000 mark I'd concede it might be as high as 1.005 at 66°F.
That's two orders of magnitude below your reading.

One ounce of Star San in five gallons is not going to result in PA syrup...

Cheers!

i just dropped it in the container of starsan....and that's why i was curious if he made a 'standard' solution or not.....thus the how potent statment...i just watched something about a mother almost killing her child with vitamin d supps, because she didn't think 2 drops would 'be enough' and was just pouring into her...wasn't sure if OP was trying to do a 50/50 mix in his 16oz blow off, not the 1 oz for 5 gals....

and was worried about the first homebrew fatality.... he didn't buy his starsan at northern brewer did he? lol

 

[day_trippr]

lol! Ok, if you're right and the OP's suck-back was from a vessel filled with undiluted Star San then you could be on to something - and the OP needs someone to tutor him up

But...he did say "Starsan water", so...

Cheers!

 

[jgaepi]

lol! Ok, if you're right and the OP's suck-back was from a vessel filled with undiluted Star San then you could be on to something - and the OP needs someone to tutor him up

But...he did say "Starsan water", so...

Cheers!

I use 16oz in a mason jar with about a 1/2tsp of starsan. Nothing too crazy here kids.

 

[bracconiere]

I use 16oz in a mason jar with about a 1/2tsp of starsan. Nothing too crazy here kids.

ok, just thought i'd check.

 

[jdauria]

Ok so kind of what I was thinking. Like taking 15oz of beer in a pint glass and then topping up with tap water. But, it does give me pause if my FG (which I didn't get a chance to sample before I sucked in 16oz of starsan water) wasn't near the mark at all. Like .009 off. Before I began milling, I had trouble getting a good OG. But my spread between OG and FG have always been pretty accurate. My OG here was supposed to be 1.049 and I hit 1.050. My FG was supposed to be 1.012 and I hit 1.021. I was really hoping the 16oz (into 320oz) was the reason. But maybe it's not in this case.

Yeah, water into beer would not increase your final gravity. Using the beer dilution tool in BeerSmith...if you had 2.5 gallons at 1.012, 16 oz of water would drop the gravity to 1.011. So therefore, you were most likely at 1.022 FG before dilution. So your FG was off for other reasons, while you got decent fermentation activity, maybe you did not pitch enough yeast cells to ferment fully. Do you make yeast starters? Was yeast pack old? Your recipe have any dark malts in it? They provide unfermentable sugars which can lead to higher FG.

 

[4of7]

ahh, gravity not temp did it. or siphon.. the troll got me wondering... @4of7 got me thinking...now i want to try and come up with a 7of9 beer?



i just dropped it in the container of starsan....and that's why i was curious if he made a 'standard' solution or not.....thus the how potent statment...i just watched something about a mother almost killing her child with vitamin d supps, because she didn't think 2 drops would 'be enough' and was just pouring into her...wasn't sure if OP was trying to do a 50/50 mix in his 16oz blow off, not the 1 oz for 5 gals....

and was worried about the first homebrew fatality.... he didn't buy his starsan at northern brewer did he? lol

....Beer troll saying 7of9 beer is brewed july 9th...to hot for me.and 9of7. Is backwards...do not drink the starsan...you ever see it listed in. Grain bill

 

[jgaepi]

Yeah, water into beer would not increase your final gravity. Using the beer dilution tool in BeerSmith...if you had 2.5 gallons at 1.012, 16 oz of water would drop the gravity to 1.011. So therefore, you were most likely at 1.022 FG before dilution. So your FG was off for other reasons, while you got decent fermentation activity, maybe you did not pitch enough yeast cells to ferment fully. Do you make yeast starters? Was yeast pack old? Your recipe have any dark malts in it? They provide unfermentable sugars which can lead to higher FG.

Because I only make 2.5g batches, I've had success with just a single Safale pack or WL vial. But maybe not this time.